Tiny Gold Bars
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etack
Well-known member
gold doesn't work like that. if you want to make 1/10g bars buy some sheet and cut it up. Also buy some tinny tinny tinny stamps too. A 1g bar is only about .25X.5X.03125in. Its pretty small.
Good luck :lol:
Eric
Good luck :lol:
Eric
You can't, surface tension pulls it together into a droplet. You punch small bars from milled gold.
Göran
Göran
patnor1011
Well-known member
If your dream is to have a lot of small pieces of gold then do flakes and shot.
If you dream of making those bars and selling them for 3x of their value to stupid people on ebay who buy them, (I hope not) then you need to invest in forms, stamping or pressing machine, buy Au in sheets and hooray on trying to pull around some people.
You may very well lose money on this adventure too. Many buyer will simply claim they got empty envelope you will have no proof you sent it to them, many will claim it is not gold at all, many will just leave negative feedback - all this will cost you money.
Not to mention that "milled gold" is simply sheet made of Au which you will have to pay premium over spot to acquire.
If you dream of making those bars and selling them for 3x of their value to stupid people on ebay who buy them, (I hope not) then you need to invest in forms, stamping or pressing machine, buy Au in sheets and hooray on trying to pull around some people.
You may very well lose money on this adventure too. Many buyer will simply claim they got empty envelope you will have no proof you sent it to them, many will claim it is not gold at all, many will just leave negative feedback - all this will cost you money.
Not to mention that "milled gold" is simply sheet made of Au which you will have to pay premium over spot to acquire.
You caught me...I am in fact interested in selling on Ebay, though I don't think it's taking advantage of anyone. It just seems to me like there's a market for folks to invest that don't have more than $10-$15 bucks to spend at a time.
What type of stamping machine would I need? I feel like there's got to be a way to make these little things relatively cheap...
What type of stamping machine would I need? I feel like there's got to be a way to make these little things relatively cheap...
I don't feel good about giving advice on this topic, due to the eBay thing. But, this is an information sharing forum and maybe information like this could be useful for others for some other purpose.
If you knew the dimensions of a 1/10 gram "bar" , length, width, height. ( sorry not going to do the math for you ). Couldn't you just make a two piece graphite mould with a long thin cavity. Same width and thickness of the final product but longer so that you could then just cut it into several " bars" . For something that thin you might have to use a centrifuge type moulding device like a jeweler might use to cast a ring or earring.
Seems like a lot of work to me though, and based on others comments, a lot of headaches! But maybe that's just me.
If you knew the dimensions of a 1/10 gram "bar" , length, width, height. ( sorry not going to do the math for you ). Couldn't you just make a two piece graphite mould with a long thin cavity. Same width and thickness of the final product but longer so that you could then just cut it into several " bars" . For something that thin you might have to use a centrifuge type moulding device like a jeweler might use to cast a ring or earring.
Seems like a lot of work to me though, and based on others comments, a lot of headaches! But maybe that's just me.
patnor1011
Well-known member
There is not market for people who do have 15-20$. All of the people who go after this (lets say that by all I mean 99%) they buy it because they:
- did not read description carefully, sellers readily name that product as 1 gr gold bar when they do expect people think gr mean gram while they will say when accused or at the end of auction in tiny letters that it is grain
- not one of them will picture his or her bar with known coin or ruler as people will quickly realize how small that (sorry I cant really call it bar) flake is. As a matter of fact they often use big picture to make feeling you buy something sizable.
I do not say you are thief or scammer or something. 2-3 years ago I was ordering essentials to produce 1 gram bars from silver as I saw the same potential you talking about. After few weeks I decided that it is not worth. You will have to produce and sell literally thousands of them to absorb costs. That is why they are expensive. I do not say that all sellers are trying to cheat, they simply cant give them cheaper as it costed them way too much to make or purchase them.
- did not read description carefully, sellers readily name that product as 1 gr gold bar when they do expect people think gr mean gram while they will say when accused or at the end of auction in tiny letters that it is grain
- not one of them will picture his or her bar with known coin or ruler as people will quickly realize how small that (sorry I cant really call it bar) flake is. As a matter of fact they often use big picture to make feeling you buy something sizable.
I do not say you are thief or scammer or something. 2-3 years ago I was ordering essentials to produce 1 gram bars from silver as I saw the same potential you talking about. After few weeks I decided that it is not worth. You will have to produce and sell literally thousands of them to absorb costs. That is why they are expensive. I do not say that all sellers are trying to cheat, they simply cant give them cheaper as it costed them way too much to make or purchase them.
patnor1011
Well-known member
You wont be able to warrant purchase of machinery. You may be able to do some anyway. Just find out nearest jewellry supplier and get price and measurements of gold sheets, buy some small piece and experiment with cutting exactly one gram as your model. Then go and find out somebody who will custom make you stamps which will cut desired size and stamp desired letters or marks on that in one go. I mean something like medieval rulers used to make hammered coins. Count on that approx one sixth of your sheet will be turned to waste which will be gold but you will never sell that for price you paid when bought that sheet of metal to start with.
patnor1011
Well-known member
One last thing, research if you are legally permitted to stamp gold with markings of purity. It is illegal to stamp and sell gold with marking of purity like 999 in many countries and only selected few companies are permitted to do so.
I know exactly how these are manufactured as I worked for a bullion supply house for the jewellery industry for many years. The first thing you ideally need is a continuous casting machine to extrude the fine gold strip, a good one is around $30-50,000 or more, the next piece of equipment is a breaker rolling machine say $25,000 and then a finishing rolling mill probably more $ than the breaker and then a shearing mill to cut the strip to size $20,000. From your starting gold probably 50% will be scrap at this point and now you need a stamping tool to blank the right size and impress a mark say $10,000 and then a decent press to stamp them $20,000 and from this material expect 25-35% waste. Then you have to advertise them and arrange despatch after making sure you have been paid....you starting to understand why those bars cost so much?
Much under 30 grams and you will pour a lump not a bar, it really doesn't pour or form well with small quantities which is why many members make buttons.
patnor1011
Well-known member
Or poormans method. Hammer and these:
http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=die+for+striking+coins&start=95&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=600&tbm=isch&tbnid=24dkpsWzj7P0IM:&imgrefurl=http://monetariastatului.ro/en/technology/&docid=87rP-he-WIVyeM&imgurl=http://monetariastatului.ro/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tehnologie-300x193.jpg&w=300&h=193&ei=whYgUcGBLdCHhQeg6IDIBQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:5,s:100,i:19&iact=rc&dur=1723&sig=100536266425377325869&page=6&tbnh=154&tbnw=229&ndsp=22&tx=179&ty=66
http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=die+for+striking+coins&start=95&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=600&tbm=isch&tbnid=24dkpsWzj7P0IM:&imgrefurl=http://monetariastatului.ro/en/technology/&docid=87rP-he-WIVyeM&imgurl=http://monetariastatului.ro/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tehnologie-300x193.jpg&w=300&h=193&ei=whYgUcGBLdCHhQeg6IDIBQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:5,s:100,i:19&iact=rc&dur=1723&sig=100536266425377325869&page=6&tbnh=154&tbnw=229&ndsp=22&tx=179&ty=66
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I am assuming you mean to sell 24 karat gold bars, correct?
patnor1011
Well-known member
One grain thingy cant be called bar - it is rather flake or foil.
You can buy 1g bars just like a choclade bar from several companies, such as this one here in germany.http://www.edelmetall-handel.de/goldbarren-1g-motivbox.html
I guess there are some out there who also produce 1grain bars.
You can buy 100 1g bars for 4500€ and resell them individually for a higher price. Why not? Many products cost more when they are being bought in smaller units.
Dont forget that the buyer will be able to resell these bars fpor a higher than spot price on ebay again!
So unless he doesnt bring it to a cash4gold etc. he will not loose money.
The price gap for other metals is much much bigger. Just have a look at Tantalum: 1g bullion will cost around 7€, which would make 7000€ for a kilo. But if you buy/sell a kilo Ta it will cost only around 500€.
So the salesprice of Pms is also a question of the quantity, whereby the gap at the goldbars is minimal compared to other metals. I dont do it, but I dont think it is unfair to the buyer. The small bar still has its value and can be resold.
I guess there are some out there who also produce 1grain bars.
You can buy 100 1g bars for 4500€ and resell them individually for a higher price. Why not? Many products cost more when they are being bought in smaller units.
Dont forget that the buyer will be able to resell these bars fpor a higher than spot price on ebay again!
So unless he doesnt bring it to a cash4gold etc. he will not loose money.
The price gap for other metals is much much bigger. Just have a look at Tantalum: 1g bullion will cost around 7€, which would make 7000€ for a kilo. But if you buy/sell a kilo Ta it will cost only around 500€.
So the salesprice of Pms is also a question of the quantity, whereby the gap at the goldbars is minimal compared to other metals. I dont do it, but I dont think it is unfair to the buyer. The small bar still has its value and can be resold.
patnor1011
Well-known member
You are right Marcel. I was talking about one grain bars where buyer do not mention clearly it is grain and not gram and where they use magnified pictures of those to make them look bigger then they are.
Interesting article with explanation of many types of these auctions:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Bullion-Investment-Scams-100-mills-mini-grams-etc?ugid=10000000017226045
Few pictures to see what they really look like.
And link to melt value of US coins, with melt value to these small bars too:
http://www.usacoinbook.com/coin-melt-values/gold/
Interesting article with explanation of many types of these auctions:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Bullion-Investment-Scams-100-mills-mini-grams-etc?ugid=10000000017226045
Few pictures to see what they really look like.
And link to melt value of US coins, with melt value to these small bars too:
http://www.usacoinbook.com/coin-melt-values/gold/
