To Weed Or not to Weed ? That is the question? HCL/CL method

[awbrew]

A HCL/CL Question..

Leached CATS, Platinum , Palladium, Sister Metals, Older Cats Possible Lead, From the days of leaded Gas. Beaded Convertors, May be Alum Beads in some.

After The Zinc Drop ? ( Minus PGMS )

After the Copper Plate (3 or 4 Hours) (make sure I didn't miss any PGMS, Stock Pot) ( :idea: Correction This Step wasn't needed after zinc)
Then filter

After the Soft Iron (2 More Hours) ( :idea: Correction This Step also not need after zinc)
This step Should have dropped Any lead also if present Along with other metals in the reactivity series below it...Correct..

(Looking at the reactivity chart)

So My Acid Should Still contain Zinc, Copper, FE and Possibly Alum ? ( :idea: Correction Zinc, Alum)
And At this point, How does it compare to actual weed killer ? Is it better than the commercial brands were buying at the store ?
Environmentally better than what they sell for weed killer? We have a Clean Salvage Yard, and I sometimes
Cringe at the thought of what we buy at the store to spray on it..

Well its been said a few times on the board, and This question is only related to the HCL/CL Leaching method ?

So I felt, I Might be the first to step out on the Perverbial Limb and either Green light or Redlight this Thought......
Easy with the Axes Guys ..

Butcher, Yea wanta take the first swing!! LOL

 

[qst42know]

Everything after you added zinc to this was unnecessary. All the metals you named with the exception of aluminum can be cemented with zinc.

If you do no other refining and the last step you did was treat with iron neutralize the remaining acid with lime.

Don't pour anything out on the ground.

 

[butcher]

A HCL/CL Question..

Leached CATS, Platinum , Palladium, Sister Metals, Older Cats Possible Lead, From the days of leaded Gas. Beaded Convertors, May be Alum Beads in some.

After The Zinc Drop ? ( Minus PGMS )
After the Copper Plate (3 or 4 Hours) (make sure I didn't miss any PGMS, Stock Pot)
Then filter

After the Soft Iron (2 More Hours)
This step Should have dropped Any lead also if present Along with other metals in the reactivity series below it...Correct..

(Looking at the reactivity chart)

So My Acid Should Still contain Zinc, Copper, FE and Possibly Alum ?
And At this point, How does it compare to actual weed killer ? Is it better than the commercial brands were buying at the store ?
Environmentally better than what they sell for weed killer? We have a Clean Salvage Yard, and I sometimes
Cringe at the thought of what we buy at the store to spray on it..

Well its been said a few times on the board, and This question is only related to the HCL/CL Leaching method ?

So I felt, I Might be the first to step out on the Perverbial Limb and either Green light or Redlight this Thought......
Easy with the Axes Guys ..

Butcher, Yea wanta take the first swing!! LOL


Awbrew,

Ok batter up, but I was not that good at baseball.

Lead is very insoluble as chlorides, so it would most likely be left in the sludge from the first process with silica and alumina powders.

You cemented (or replaced) the values in solution with zink.
Zink is higher in series than iron, Zink would replace not only your valuable metals from solution but also Iron, (chromium if stainless steel was involved), and any other metal below Zink in the reactivity series.

It would not make any sense to me to use copper or iron in this solution (after using Zink) as you are suggesting in later stages of your treatments of this spent acids (copper to try and cement remaining values), (Iron to cement copper), as these metals are below Zink in the reactivity series of metals, the only way I see these going into the solution of zink chloride is if you had an excess of oxidizer left in solution (but this would also mean that you did not complete the chemical reaction with Zink to replace the platinum group metals from solution).

By adding copper you have made your solution more dangerous than it was as a zink chloride.

Even if all I had from my process was salt water (NaCl solution), I would not use it for weed killer, and this goes with any other waste I generate, for several reasons:

Salt is bad for the soil and yes it would kill weeds but also many other plants, it would also be water soluble and so it will work its way down to our water table, and end up in mine and your drinking water, now if I added some dangerous metals to this mix (well lets just say I will not do it).

Also what we can be checked on at any time, I have had government agencies come to my home and check out my backyard hobby, a saving factor for me was I was educated in how to deal with waste, and I was practicing it, so even though he highly frowned on my buckets of sludge, I was spared much trouble.

Sometimes solutions can be reused, my spent solutions are great for removing base metals, depending on what the solution is, and the metal I am trying to dissolve, some times my byproduct salts from reactions are used to make another chemical (like the salt from home-made nitric acid, can be used to make ferrous sulfate).

Zink chloride solution can be made into Zink sulfate (or kept as Zink chloride is also used as moss removers), these are sold for moss out for roofs, and sidewalks, (but the chloride version I would be afraid may rust my nails out of my roof, so I will just by the store bought if I need it), Zink sulfate is sold as fertilizer, but if it had chloride salts you could destroy your soil, I will buy my own fertilizer, and treat my waste as waste.

Another problem is we may not really know what dangerous chemicals or metals are in some of these wastes, I do not want to take that chance of poisoning my water supply or killing my neighbor or her children, just to get rid of my waste chemicals.


Awbrew, think about it do you want all of the people around you dumping their waste, even if they think it might be safe, into your water supply?

Strike three I am out.

 

[awbrew]

Nope, Not At all... Thats Probably a home run..LOL
Thanks for the awesome answer.. I wouldn't expect anything less from you butcher!! Ha. I just thought that the question needed to be answered... like I mentioned, I've been reading alot on here, and This thought kept recurring and needs some closure for me and probably some other folks out there. So I thought it was worth Clarifying. I for one won't be using in this manner and It may stop some other folks from doing so too.

Thanks guys, for the correction on the copper and the Iron. If I had looked a little closer, I would have seen that FE and CU are both lower in the series. I Dont believe that I had checked it since I read the blog.(I had the chart open on another web page during writing this, but still didn't see it) that I think 4metals did on Dropping and neutralizeing your solution before discarding. Once I treat it with limestone dust Neutralizeing it and let settle, then I'm clear to siphon off the top clear liquid (should be water correct?) and the water be condensed or evaporated Completly too make Sure not to carry salts or anything in the salts off... The Solids on bottom containing the metals and limestone dust. Would probably be a question for a land-fill at this point, correct?

Thanks Again For everyones help...

 

[butcher]

After treating your waste.

You would end up with a neutral salt water solution,(chloride, sulfate, carbonate, depending on chemical), (most of mine is very close to table salt water ), with some very reactive metals left in solution, (the more dangerous heavy metals are separated as powders and dried) the sewer treatment plant can handle this before dumping back into the river.

Remember people downstream drink what the people upstream flushed.

The dried powders can go to the land fill.
That is if you done your homework and followed procedures.

Which it sounds like your doing awbrew.

 

[awbrew]

Thanks Butcher, for all the help!

 

[abbottmorris]

This information would also helpful for me for dealing with ...

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