Urea Nitrate

[blue-oxen]

Well hear is my noob chemistry question. I am on the verge of running my first batch with a AR process using Urea and metabisulfite to precipitate. So my question is when I add the Urea to the AR is there any chance of making urea nitrate. :shock:

Thanks for you time Blue.

 

[leavemealone]

Urea Nitrate?No it wont if you are adding the urea to AR.As with all chemistry,you never want to add large amounts of any chemical to another one quickly.If you insist on using urea,simply add small amounts at a time until the fizzing stops.But this is an unnecessary step if you decide to evaporate the nitrates instead of neutralizing them.Its slower but less expensive,and the resultant gold is higher in purity.I don't use urea,but if you do,just remember add it slowly and someone is usually always here to help you if you run into some trouble.
Johnny
***EDITED***
I found this on wikipedia just in case you need it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea_nitrate
Oh yeh and welcome to the forum.

 

[nicknitro]

Hello and welcome,

Just a guess, from the elements invloved, but the resulting salts would most likely be similar to ammonium nitrate. A similar compound in that it can be used in high-explosives, but is mostly used in agriculture as a fertilizer.

Feel free to correct me everyone. LOL

Urea "2(NH2)2CO" + Nitric "(HNO3)" = Ammonium Nitrate "NH4NO3" + CO2

Wow thats an awful "Equation" LOL Someone please help!

Thanks,
Nick

 

[butcher]

CAUTION!!! Dont think that is the equation, I believe you will be making an explosive almost as strong as TNT, urea nitrate were the urea acts as fuel and nitric acts as an oxidizer, I would not mess with this, you will need more info than I can provide.

 

[nicknitro]

Butcher,

I admit I was just guessing here, but, if this were true, wouldn't this happen quite a lot. It is standard procedure to use the water and Urea to eliminate excess Nitric from AR solutions. I anticipate a chemist's response to this one. Hopefully soon.

Thanks Butcher,
Nick

 

[Noxx]

You need concentrated sulfuric acid in order to make urea nitrate.

Hello and welcome,

Urea "2(NH2)2CO" + Nitric "(HNO3)" = Ammonium Nitrate "NH4NO3" + CO2

Wow thats an awful "Equation" LOL Someone please help!

Thanks,
Nick

No, that's not an awful equation. Ammonium Nitrate is a fertilizer after all...
Bomb with AM are made with gasoline and a blasting cap. Both are not normally in Nitric Acid lol.

 

[butcher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea_nitrate

Urea nitrate is a fertilizer-based high explosive that has been used in improvised explosive devices in Israel, Iraq, and various other terrorism acts elsewhere in the world, like the 1993 World Trade Center bombings.[1] It has a destructive power similar to better-known ammonium nitrate explosives, with a velocity of detonation between 3,400 m/s (11,155 ft/s) and 4,700 m/s (15,420 ft/s).[2]

Production is by nitration of urea using nitric acid. This is an exothermic reaction, so steps must be taken to control the temperature. Presence of sulfuric acid during the nitration catalyze the reaction, although this is not necessary. [2]

Urea nitrate explosions may be initiated using a blasting cap. [2]

 

[Anonymous]

Wiki, is not always the best source, I do not know about other countries but here in the USA they use ammonium nitrate for fertilizer and for improvised and not improvised explosives, they call it ANFO, Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil.

Jim

 

[blue-oxen]

We have gotten off the topic of Urea Nitrate and onto Ammonia Nitrate.

Urea Nitrate is a high explosive made with just Urea and Nitric acid. This is why I had a little concern. It is most likely destroyed by the HCL when you use it in AR. But I'm no chemist and i just wanted to make sure so i could dispose of my filters properly.

It is use a lot in the middle east because of it is so simple to make all they need is some nitric acid and distilled urine.

Ammonia nitrate is mostly just a fertilizer and is just a part in a high explosive you need chemicals that i wont go into on the forums to make it go boom as it is just an oxidizing agent.

 

[nicknitro]

Blue -Oxen,

Sorry to create such a stir on your topic. This is not what I was trying to do. I only suggested what I thought the resulting salts from say a AR or pure nitric acid solution when using urea to eliminate the nitrates.

Side note, the only other things needed for "ammonium" nitrate to go boom, are something to keep it dry, as it absorbs water like crazy, and a High explosive source such as a blasting cap as stated by one of the other posters.

Butcher also agrees that Urea Nitrate, and Ammonium Nitrate, would both require at least a blasting cap to be harmful. So, basically just dont stick blasting caps in any salts produced from any of you refining solutions. LOL

Sorry to over simplify, it just seems this topic is going a little dooms day.
Blue, there are many dangers, when working with any of the chemicals expressed in the refining topics here on the forum.

My best advise to you comes in three parts. 1. Read the MSDS for all chemicals you directly come into contact with. 2. Always ask questions, as you already have. 3. Try things in small quantities, always, before "large-scaling" any refining technique. This is also helpful, so you can Identify negative effects and deal with them before they turn bad. I believe this is the fundamental behing the test-tube.

Again Sorry Blue-Oxen,
Nick

 

[blue-oxen]

Blue -Oxen,

Sorry to create such a stir on your topic. This is not what I was trying to do. I only suggested what I thought the resulting salts from say a AR or pure nitric acid solution when using urea to eliminate the nitrates.

Side note, the only other things needed for "ammonium" nitrate to go boom, are something to keep it dry, as it absorbs water like crazy, and a High explosive source such as a blasting cap as stated by one of the other posters.

Butcher also agrees that Urea Nitrate, and Ammonium Nitrate, would both require at least a blasting cap to be harmful. So, basically just dont stick blasting caps in any salts produced from any of you refining solutions. LOL

Sorry to over simplify, it just seems this topic is going a little dooms day.
Blue, there are many dangers, when working with any of the chemicals expressed in the refining topics here on the forum.

My best advise to you comes in three parts. 1. Read the MSDS for all chemicals you directly come into contact with. 2. Always ask questions, as you already have. 3. Try things in small quantities, always, before "large-scaling" any refining technique. This is also helpful, so you can Identify negative effects and deal with them before they turn bad. I believe this is the fundamental behing the test-tube.

Again Sorry Blue-Oxen,
Nick

No need to apologize. you are probably right.

NO need to worry about me and safety I work with toxic chemicals and very high voltages on a daily basis and know the importance of proper PPE and MSDS .