Used Oxalic acid methode. Got a bright yellow powder?

[ameturerefiner]

I have tried everything and can not get this right.

SMB and Iron sulphate did nothing, Tried neutralizing it with urea and nothing, Tried heating it up and nothing.

Have had some luck with oxalic Acid method.

First I added oxalic acid directly to the AR solution, Then adjusted PH with NaOH, their seemed to be a reaction mostly around the lye. A brown power did form, However in a second experiment where only lye was used. I got the same brown powder. That quickly dissolved when i tried to wash with HCl. In a third experiment I did not wash it and dried it out, I looks right, Is this gold.

In a forth experiment I used only oxalic acid and heated the solution, In this case everything dropped out, and the solution went clear. Copper did not resort to elemental copper but instead remained green I suspect this is copper chloride.

Now here is where it gets interesting, In a fifth experiment I made a solution first of oxalic acid and NaOH, then added the AR solution, This time I got a bright yellow powder. The solution retained a hint of green I suspect is the copper and nickle that was present from the pins and boards dissolved.

First can anyone tell me what this yellow powder is?
Second Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong principally with the SMB or FeSO4 methods?
Third If SMB fails the first time how can i recover the solution, Will other methods still work?

I could go on with many more question but I would love an answer to these. I really want to learn this process and am reading hokes book, But I have also sunk some cash into learning this and really need a return soon. If anyone can help I would appreciate it thank you.

 

[srlaulis]

Read Hoke's book in it's entirety, along with doing the familiarization exercises she instructs before asking questions. That is my friendly advice to you. Stop what you are doing and read, read and read. Then study topics throughout this forum by using the search box.

 

[cnbarr]

Everything srlaulis said is an important starting and a must in my eyes.

Second would be that I heard no mention of your stannous test results? I am constantly amazed at how any one can refine gold and have success without the use of stannous chloride? I don't know anyone who has xray gold vision,, that is what stannous is for, it is your eyes in the dark to tell what is in your solutions! Without it, it is just the blind leading the blind.

I'm really not trying to be rude so please don't take offense, read Hoke read it again, learn to properly use and implement the use of stannous chloride in your procedures.

 

[bswartzwelder]

I see you just joined the forum and you're experimenting kind of wildly. First, tell us what the results were when you tested with stannous chloride? How much of Hoke have you read? Do you know how much gold was in the reaction chambers to recover? Too many questions left unanswered.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Stop what you are doing, and put your solutions to the side. Any values you might have in solution are not going anywhere, but you need to stop, STOP adding things to your solutions and calling them experiments. Strictly speaking, experimentation should be left to chemists who understand what they are doing, and what they are creating and have some methodology to their process. What you are doing just sounds like the shotgun method of trying to precipitate gold where you try everything and expect everything but really don't realize what it is you are doing.

By adding Urea to a solution that has excess nitric acid you could create urea nitrate, read this MSDS:

https://us.vwr.com/stibo/hi_res/8203287.pdf

It is better to make small additions of nitric acid to your AR solution only until the gold is completely dissolved, instead of making a traditional AR solution. In this way you do not end up with excess nitric acid in solution, which causes issues with precipitation.

You shouldn't add SMB, then Ferrous Sulfate, then urea, then oxalic acid, you have too many things going on in your solution, and the more things you continue to add, the more problems you are creating for yourself. Think about it this way, these processes are very well known and have been proven to work if the conditions are correct. Obviously your conditions are not right, so the way you are suppose to precipitate is not working as it normally would.

You should as someone has already suggested, use Stannous Chloride to test for gold in solution. If you understand this test, and the expected results, you can also test for other metals as well. Or you could go a little further and use schwartzers solution to do so. In any case, you made no mention, as has been posted prior to my post, of testing your solution for values. How do you know you have gold in solution to precipitate?

Oxalic acid works best when heated, but you would already know this if you read C. M. Hoke refining precious metal wastes. If you have not yet read this book, do so. It's out of print, and has no copyrights, and can be downloaded as PDF for free, here is a link:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2815953/Refining-Precious-Metal-Wastes-C-M-Hoke

It not only contains all the information you are looking for about precipitating gold out of your solution, but a wealth of other knowledge as well. It also includes information about reducing gold from a solution with Oxalic acid. Not only does it contain this information, but it will also give you the correct terminology to use when describing what you are doing, so people who might help you understand what you are asking. In other words using correct terminology will allow you to ask the right questions, and get better answers.

When you post describing something and asking if it is gold for example, it's best to also supply pictures of what it is you are talking about. When I reduce with Oxalic acid, I don't see shiny gold, I see a light brown color sand or mud as it's called. Here is a video you might want to watch that a member of this forum has made on oxalic acid reduction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yOBdkxk1IE

Before you attempt anything however, first read C. M. Hoke, and maybe look through posts that pertain to what it is you are proposing to do so you understand better what is required. Just so you know, the solution you have created could be explosive, and if you add or attempt the wrong thing, you could cause it to explode without any warning at all.

Scott

 

[ameturerefiner]

The stannous chloride test was a strong positive, thank you that level of armature i am not. Can anyone give me useful info not just read hokes book, I'm reading the book. I follow the instruction on iron sulphate right now and it is not working, neutralized nitric added water to dilute. Added the sulphate left it over night and nothing. Can anyone give me useful information. Everyone keeps saying read read read. That's fine i like reading, I do read. But i need experienced help.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Let me understand what you are demanding, so I we all can be more clear about answering you.

You want, without any pictures for us to tell you if you have precipitated gold.

You want us, to type specific directions on how to proceed, something you will have to read, without you describing properly what it is you have currently done.

You want us to see you as not being an amateur, yet you clearly are.

You expect us to repeat what Hoke has to say about Ferrous Sulphate and Oxalic Acid, and feel we should explain this to you instead of you reading it in a book.

You have been given the correct advice, and yet you refuse to use it but instead insist on someone giving you advice you want, not the advice you need

You have an obvious sense of entitlement, as if you deserve to be given what you demand without doing what you are needed and required to do before.

I don't even know what to say, I'm really kind of disgusted that you feel you are entitled to your demands just simply because you make them. I think you need help, a lot of help, but your pride is getting in the way of you learning and if you don't control one the other will never happen. Remember, the responsibility to learn lies on your shoulders, not the people of this forum. You are responsible for learning, and at least learning enough to ask the right questions.

If I were to log onto a professional forum for professionals who made explosives, and I with my limited knowledge explained how I was proceeding making an explosive, then I demanded for others to give me the information on how to complete my explosive correctly, because it wasn't exploding when it was suppose to, what do you think those people would tell me?

You are trying to go too fast. The answers you want are in Hoke, and in many many many threads on this forum. You need to stop attempting to precipitate gold out of your now very complex solution, READ Hoke from front to back, then you will be better equipped to ask the right questions, provide the right information, and do so using the same terminology that we all understand on this forum.

I attempted to help you, if you do not want to listen to the advice that I am others have attempted to give you, then you are going to find you will be all on your own with a dirty solution you cannot resolve.

Scott

 

[bswartzwelder]

Scott,
Great reply. I found some yellow powder yesterday and thought it might be gold. Through much hard work and dedication I found out what it was. My wife had accidentally knocked over a can of powdered mustard on the kitchen counter. Glad I didn't try to refine it.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Scott,
Great reply. I found some yellow powder yesterday and thought it might be gold. Through much hard work and dedication I found out what it was. My wife had accidentally knocked over a can of powdered mustard on the kitchen counter. Glad I didn't try to refine it.

My business manager, and close friend, doesn't do this type of work, but he does do an amazing job in managing the things I'm not good at.

He has however been reading the books I have been giving him, so that he has a working knowledge of what we are doing. The other day he proudly showed me a beaker with a large amount of gold colored material at the bottom. I was totally dumbfounded, and needless to say, impressed. He lead me to believe he had precipitated this out of a solution of material he had digested in Aqua Regia without any help or direction from myself.

It was sand, no I mean it was really sand, he had played a joke on me.

Thanks for the story, made me laugh. Is it true?

Scott

 

[Captobvious]

Patience is earned not given
Knowledge is acquired not absorbed
Solutions will wait for patience, knowledge and respect


Now please put the chemicals up, I spent darn near a full year before I even bought my first bottle of Lye doing nothing but learning. Read read read read READ, watch every video you can find. Watch both good and idiotic ones so you can learn what not to do. If you're are this desperate for money that you're rushing your way through this or if it's because you're too impatient to learn, then perhaps you should find a new hobby before you hurt or kill yourself or someone else.

/2 cents

 

[srlaulis]

Scott,
Great reply. I found some yellow powder yesterday and thought it might be gold. Through much hard work and dedication I found out what it was. My wife had accidentally knocked over a can of powdered mustard on the kitchen counter. Glad I didn't try to refine it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: