Electrochemistry Valid Refineit nitric cell alternative?

[niteliteone]

The only "Senior Member" of the forum I have ever had any kind of financial dealings with is Lazersteve through his on line store.
I feel I received a good bargain with these dealings as he was willing to sell something I was wanting, at a price I felt like paying. I probably could have found some of the items cheaper else where, but when you include shipping on each purchase, things start looking different real fast.
As long as Steve continues to sell these items I will probably continue to buy from Steve as I feel all is fair in our transactions.

Just my 2 cents worth.

PS. Thanks Steve for having your online store. It is a real benefit for some of us here.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

I haven't posted in awhile, but even still I cannot believe anyone involved with this forum would be covering up for someone attempting to commit a scam.

Perhaps it was something deleted by someone because it was brought to their attention as being a scam?

Or maybe it's one of hundreds of other possibilities. But so far as I am concerned, and being that I have spoken and even done business with some of the moderators, I find it exceedingly difficult to believe any of them would be involved in anything less than honest. I find even the hint of this being possible offensive.

Ralph, I respect you, and the fact you are so involved in this forum. I find your posts are usually spot on in every way. You have been here a long time. Do you honestly believe any of the people who have the ability to delete a post, would have done so for reasons that are not honest?

Scott

 

[Palladium]

Well well well..... My grandmother always had a saying about the guilty dog. First let me say if you believe for one minute that this isn't happening then believe what you may but i'm not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. I'm a threat to this so called conspiracy as you call it and when your a threat you become a target. Just as that Snowden fellow is. It's funny how every time i post a thread like this Steve you like to jump right into it. You talk about conspiracy theory and then you try and bring the other moderators into it by saying only a moderator could do that and you even bring Noxx of all people into it. Then you say " Does any other members believe this? Then you attack another member and say you should really do your research into what Ralph is saying before you take up his cause. Then you say maybe you posted it under another screen name and from there you go on to belittle the information and try and discredit it by laughing and saying "It sure makes for a great work of fiction". What happened was people were asking questions and starting to follow what i had to say and in you swooped to suppress that line of thinking. Then you go on to call it ridiculous. Why would it be ridiculous if you don't even know if it's the truth or not. Do you know what everybody else does, because i sure don't and neither do you. What guilty people do is to group themselves in with the the innocent so it looks like i'm attacking everyone so the guilty party can hid amongst the innocent. It's funny how when people want to discredit someone they always call them a conspiracy theorist or a nut job. Think i'm lying? Just look throughout history and you will see the same thing repeated over and over. After the first thread got deleted and i posted the 2nd one and raised attention to it so everyone would know it so it couldn't couldn't be deleted a 2nd time also you jumped right in the middle of it. When people don't want you to look at the facts what do they do? They put confusion and misdirection into it so people start talking about everything except the REAL subject at hand, misdirection is what they call it. When you figured out that the information couldn't then be deleted a 2nd time you turned to trying to discredit the one who was screaming from the roof tops about it. You give reasons such as maybe a search engine did it, maybe it was lost when the server moved blah, blah, blah. Really! If you use logic you would know that we haven't moved servers in a long time and that this ebay scam product was just listed recently so that's not the answer either. Well no sir it was erased plain and simple because when i go to search my own post under the search your own post tab it is not there. Explain that! Don't forget i use to be a moderator to and know backwards and forwards how this board works. And why out of all the moderators did YOU seem to be the only one offended by it. I'm going to tell you now, and i know you know what i'm talking about, that you ethics are not what you like to portray them here on the board. I know your ethics and while you have all these people fooled, you ain't fooling me. No sir, not one bit!!!! I've talked to your previous clients, employers, and even people in your personal life who you haven't talked to in years. I probably know you better than anyone here on the forum or yourself for that matter ever will and i've never even meet you, nor do i care to. You have been constantly lobbying against me trying to ban my extra screen names and do everything you can to get me off the board so i don't point these things out to other members. In short i'm a threat to someones agenda and they know it. And their is no doubt in my mind after this you will try it again! It's plain and simple, i'm not going to allow anyone, including you, Mickey mouse, or the Pope to tear down or use information from this forum for their own personal gain. If this forum starts going in that direction then i will make my own personal decision that i don't want to be a part of that and i will just be on my merry way to leave it to be exploit how every the forces that govern it see fit. I will not be part of something i don't believe in and is corrupt. I have not invested the time and effort i have invested only to see this forum used for that. And yes so their is no confusion i am saying someone with admin rights erased it. I'm not sure who to blame yet but now i guess the real question is...... Was it you?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

when your a threat you become a target. Just as that Snowden fellow is.

Snowden is a target because he broke the law, violated the terms of his confidentiality agreement, and put his personal agenda ahead of all else.

After the first thread got deleted and i posted the 2nd one and raised attention to it so everyone would know it so it couldn't couldn't be deleted a 2nd time also you jumped right in the middle of it.

I believe 924T started this thread. You got interested after he said he said he thought it was made by a GRF member. That seemed to me to be the first time you connected the device in question with a GRF member.

this ebay scam product was just listed recently so that's not the answer either. Well no sir it was erased plain and simple because when i go to search my own post under the search your own post tab it is not there.

Palladium, I don't know about any posts you may have made, but this thread appeared 11 days ago with a link to the same item: Gold Filled Scrap Recovery

And why out of all the moderators did YOU seem to be the only one offended by it.

I would not doubt it one bit someone joined the forum and learned a few things and is trying to profit from what little they learned, we see that kind of thing often, but to implicate Noxx or a moderator of being involved does seem like a conspiracy theory out of the wilds of imagination, if that is in fact what is being suggested here.

Posted only in the interest of maintaining accurate information on this forum.

Dave

 

[lazersteve]

Ralph,

You live in a fantasy land.

What I can't understand is why you are trying to drag me into your delusions.

Have fun chasing white rabbits.

Steve

 

[butcher]

Palladium,
I can honestly say I have no involvement in selling coffee pots with a couple of wires hanging from them.

I do find this matter disturbing.

I respect both you and Laser Steve, and feel you have both been major players in the forums success, you both have made major contributions, I do not know either of you personally, or either of your true characters, but I believe both of you to be Honest Men trying to help others with what you are learning.

I Find this exchange between you and Steve lately to be very disturbing, and disruptive to the forum, this tit for tat between two of the forums respected and honored forum members, both of which have been major players in the forum.

If you have proof of a moderator doing any wrong doing by all means we need to know about it.

As far as a missing or deleted post, I can see many reasons why they get deleted, there are records of which posts were deleted and by whom, although we cannot go back and look at content or why the post was deleted (as far as I know), posts get deleted for many reasons, I personally delete posts with foul language, links to spamming or scamming and so on all the time, members often delete their own posts... If you know the date, or subject and so on, or some identifying character I could look through the records to see who deleted a post and when, but I do not know what that would prove.

I really do not understand exactly what this coffee pot scam is all about, I seen the link to a coffee pot cell posted and looked quickly at the link, I could not even tell you what price they were selling it for, or much about it, then we hear it is a forum member involved in selling this gadget, and then you suspect a moderator in cahoots as trying to scam members, which is a serious charge, If this is true we all need to expose any wrong doing,and clean up a mess, but if not, then it does nothing but harm, to make this type of allegation, I also see where there has been bad blood between you and Steve lately, I do not understand what is going on, but I do find it very disturbing to be going on on open forum...

Ralph, If there is any way I can help you to prove any wrong doing by any member I will, even if that includes a moderator, and if you suspect me of wrong doing, another moderator will assist you, as we do wish to expose any problems, or misuse of the forum, this forum has held high standards and we all wish to keep these standards, and will work hard towards that.

But we also cannot have personal attacks of character especially between two of our finer forum members disrupting or setting bad examples, if these are that, just personal attacks.

I would like to see this matter settled in a gentlemanly manner, I do not understand this matter of the coffee pot cell scam, or what is actually going on, I have seen bad blood between you and Laser Steve, I do not understand that, or its history, It is my hope that that is not what this is all about, my concern is for this forum and to see it run as smoothly as possible, and for its success, and I will work to continue to see it be as honest and the best place to learn gold refining as much as I possibly can.

Richard Butcher

 

[lazersteve]

I have no bad blood with Ralph, I'm still trying to figure out where that idea was even born.

On the contrary, I find Ralph's posts very entertaining.

For the record, yesterday I freely submitted a complete list of all the posts/topics that I have touched since the first day I joined the forum to all of the moderators for review. I have also made a hard copy of this information. None of the other moderators have taken this step yet. I believe one should lead by example.

As a side note, there is also the possibility of posts being deleted by the original author. If you write a post, you can delete it. The moderator logs show all of these deletions as well.

The logs prove that I have not deleted any posts or topics since July 5, 2013. The last post I deleted was on July 5 due to a report being filed and was posted by Nelson82 who I also banned for spamming the same day. The post before that was deleted on June 17, 2013 and was posted by Rodthrower18, if memory serves me correctly I was cleaning up an accidental double post to the thread on flatpak processing. FrugalRefiner stated above that the entire subject in question started 11 days ago. Seeing how my last two deletions were 16 and 30+ days ago, I guess this puts me 'in the clear' in Ralph's who dun-it 'investigation'. My first post on this thread marks the first knowledge and contact I have had with this entire subject in any way.

Steve

 

[Palladium]

The whole point about Snowden is how we like to..... Oh never mind. And as far as fantasy land and white rabbits..... You just keep on prodding me and messing with me Steve and i will disclose things that will blow you mind as to what i know about you. You would have figured by now that you would have learned not to even talk to me, but for some reason you can't take a hint. Stay out of my way and i will stay out of yours, but when you decide to jump in the mix as far as i'm concerned your fair game. Don't play the victim part after it is done. And what do you mean i'm dragging you into this? You put yourself into this. The only reason their is any personal attack is because i stated something and you took offense to it or you never would have posted like you did. Your the one who keeping talking about fiction, fantasy land, and conspiracy theory. I didn't attack, i just defended. The reason i ask the members name is because i actually wanted to talk to the guy for reasons i won't reveal ( nothing bad ) but after i realized what the item was i remembered making the post and when i went back to find it so i could post a link to it it was gone, poof! Then i realized that once the post was gone i went to check his feedback and all the sudden it was private. Strange i guess. It's not just that that leads me to believe what i know. I have other indicators and proof i use to figure things out. I'm not a fool to make accusations like that unfounded and without evidence. It was about 2 weeks ago Butcher i'm sorry i can't remember exactly when and god forbid i would ever accuse you of anything. Quiet the contrary, i hold your position in the highest regards and respect you immensely sir. When i put the nail in this coffin, and i will, then it will all seem clear and the truth will be known. I'm going to take a break from the forum for awhile anyway and see how things turn out here. I've got some decisions to make and to tell you the truth i'm not sure what those will be yet. I'm done with it!!!!!

 

[solar_plasma]

Are you guys talking about an overpriced coffee pot?

Since my last dispute with Thomas, I think twice, if I really feel the need to post something into the forum and I think twice, what I write and how I write.... and I thought twice after each post in this thread. Now, I take position, since I am a part of this forum.

I like you all and highly respect you.

Palladium
As someone who is an outside standing observer in this story, I feel the need to say, there was nothing suspect in the posts in this thread. I would have felt offended as a moderator and would have reacted in some way and pretty much would I have used the same words, which you think sound even more suspect.

I don't know what proofs you have or if you went astray, which easily can happen to everyone and the person itself will not know it. But as someone standing a bit outside, being a bit new, I would beg you, put proofs on the table or deal the situation via pm.

Do not feel, I am against you, - I am against nobody here and everybody can try to get whatever price for any nonsens at ebay, I really really don't mind. I just like you all, I like this forum and when you guys, some of the most respected, our big bro's, have such a dark cloud between you publicly, then it feels really bad also to me. And I feel the need to say that, because I am pretty sure, there are a lot of other "little bro's", who feel the same way, just don't dare to post it or believe they are not in the position to post their opinion.

Btw. some well known behavioral studies proofed that in such a situation both parties are losing some confidence points in the eyes of the observers, - neverminding what comes out or if anything comes out at the end.

Cheers

 

[niteliteone]

Are you guys talking about an overpriced coffee pot?
(snip)
I like you all and highly respect you.

Palladium
As someone who is an outside standing observer in this story ...
(snip)
Cheers

It is a lot more than this one item. I think he is referring to individual research done by other members and then the information sold on ebay.
A little over a year ago a member here copied all of Samual's personal videos and procedures from his website and made a CD that they then were selling it on ebay with out Samual's permission.

Also I agree with your above post that this needs to be done out of our sight.

PS, Hope we are OK 8)

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

If I am thinking about the person who is selling this product, in a methodical and intelligent way, this is the conclusion I could come to:

Why are all those links coming up in German :?:
Could be another clue if the person speaks German.
No ill will towards any German speaking members here.

Checking the OP's ebay, and entering the information in Google, you find that he also maintains a presence on the German version of Ebay:

http://myworld.ebay.de/rhino_mining/

This isn't the same page as you find on his American Ebay profile page:

http://myworld.ebay.com/rhino_mining?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

If you notice there are no items for sale on his German profile, but are on his US profile

Palladium---------the only 3 things I know about this GRF member are that his first name is Bill, the company name
is Rhino Mining, and he's in Pittsburg, PA.

The fact that "Bill" lives in PA has significance. In Pa there live a large community of Amish, who speak a hybrid version of German called Pennsylvania German.

So we could assume, if willing to take this as proof, that Bill speaks German.

There is a Rhino Mining company in South Africa:

http://www.southafrica-companies.com/rhino-mining-supplies-and-equipment-13o7r/

Afrikaans is a direct descendant of 17th century Dutch, which is widely spoken in South Africa, and which is also a German language.

The Amish in Pa are also in a large part, Dutch, and their Pa German language is also a derivative of Dutch/German

So now we can assume, if we are willing to, that Bill not only speaks German, but got the idea for his business name from the South African company by the same name, and maybe have some association with someone in South Africa who speaks German, or a flavor of German, or that he is from South Africa, or visited, or any number of other associations.

We can also take a wild guess, and assume that "Bill' is Amish

Which is interesting, because there is in fact, a group of Amish in Pa who are attempting to refine e-waste, gold scrap jewelry and catalytic converters. I have spoken with them through a customer of mine, they were looking for information on refining catalytic converters specifically, but engaged me on refining karat scrap and e-waste as well. They evidently have a fairly large operation going.

So I could, after just a little time looking into the information provided, construe all these things, that the person who posted this piece of equipment for sale is Dutch or German, may have spent time in South Africa or has dealings with people in South Africa, and is Amish.

And even though the proof is leading, and seems fairly solid, all of it could be smoke. Meaning that all of it, part of it or in fact none of it might be true. No matter how convincing the information may seem, it still does not mean any of it is true. It's our choice after learning this information to believe or not believe.

However, either would be wrong even if it were right because there exists no empirical data, there is no actual hard core proof. If you have to choose to believe or not, and have no actual hard evidence, it's wrong morally to choose anything. Guessing and proving a theory is one thing, but alleging anything without evidence is wrong, accusing is wrong.

Anyone with half a brain who is posting anything for sale on ebay, that they claim will refine any type of precious metal would be an incredible idiot NOT to read, and take, information from this forum. As it is probably the single most important repository of information anywhere on the internet, and probably any library or college anywhere in the world. It would be more surprising by far, that someone would NOT use information contained within this forum, in the creation of equipment that allows people to refine precious metals.

I would also expect that same person to WANT to be a member of this forum. They would be mentally constipated if they did not want to be.

They are probably laughing right now as they read this

But even these assumptions could be wrong, and utterly incorrect. It could be someone else who belongs to this forum giving information to someone else so that they get a percentage of the profit. But really, what does it matter? This forum has been made public, and the information available for anyone who can connect to it, to read and learn. Isn't that the entire point?

But what I find highly unlikely is that someone who has their own website, selling their own items, that are not pre-assumbled into a gold refining unit, and extremely reasonably prices, sticking their neck out for anyone selling a cheeseball unit on ebay that is not only way over priced but uses none of the techniques that Steve has written about, or is selling parts for.

I would have a hard time believing Steve would be involved in any scam to start with, but I would also have a hard time believing this even if I didn't know Steve from the forum, and only based this belief on the information readily available. It just doesn't add up, nor does it make any sense.

You can lead people to believe anything, Politicians prove this every time they open their mouth, but in doing so are you serving justice? Or are you only supporting your argument, and only then because you are emotionally attached to your beliefs and strongly desire to be right?

Scott

 

[4metals]

Ralph,

Forums have a way of being extremely impersonal. I have spoken to a very few members on the phone (you included) and even met a few but for the most part everyone is pretty much a blank canvas. The same is true among moderators, we essentially know each other from our posts rather than from personal first hand knowledge.

I do know that moderators have spent considerable time making posts and helping members through their problems and because of that they become moderators. Being a moderator is a thankless job, and any insinuation that "one of us" is less than honest is quite honestly a slap in the face to all of us.

The internet provides us with a lot of information, some of it useful and some of it junk, it is up to us to sort it out. It is obvious that some have seen this forum as a source of good information and deemed it worthy of sale. To claim that information as ones own when it has been plagiarized from this forum is wrong and personally I would not be supportive of anyone doing this, in fact I would be in favor of banning such an individual. But there needs to be proof, not insinuation and not idle threat. I have seen a picture that I took of a setup I built being used in a gallery of a refiner claiming it as his own. There were few who would ever know this to be the case but I called them and told them that if they kept that image on their site, I would have no choice but to inform the real owner of the equipment and they would likely have an attorney call him. The picture was removed quickly. This kind of thing happens quite often when you post an image on the internet, short of putting a watermark on all of your posted images there are not a lot of options. The same is true when you post a you tube video or a procedure on the forum. There are even members posting a disclaimer with their posts, talk about CYA!

If there has been a serious ethical violation here, the guilty party needs to be exposed but it cannot be a fishing expedition, this isn't CNN covering the OJ Simson trial, enough with the drama. If there are facts, post them, if not get over it. Threads like this one drag the forum down, lets get back to refining questions and real issues about assays, melting, leaching and all the interesting stuff!

As a moderator I am insulted to be put on the short list of suspects for questionable behavior and I stand with my fellow moderators who constantly are striving to maintain a high bar for this forum.

 

[Harold_V]

I've tried to digest the contents of this thread before making any statements. One thing I know---no one on this board should be tried by a court that has been provided with more than enough innuendo, and nothing of fact.

Ralph,
Cease and desist immediately. Do not make any more comments that allude to anyone's character. If you can't post irrefutable facts, say nothing until you can. If your assumptions are incorrect, no matter how much will be said after the fact, damage will have been done. I do not find that acceptable.

I have no qualms about having negative information disclosed about any of those of us who are on the board, assuming it's pertinent to the purpose and operation of the board. If it is not, don't post it here. That's not what we're about.

I'd like to see this subject come to an immediate end, or charges be leveled, accompanied by supporting evidence. Any further innuendo is not going to be permitted.

Harold

Any further threats by any party will come at great expense, so give careful thought to comments that may be posted.

Harold

 

[924T]

Getting back to a Nitric cell, I'd like to know if one could melt computer pins into an anode bar and recover
the gold from them in a Nitric cell?

There's the chance of Copper, Tin, Kovar, and Beryllium being in the ingot, and I suspect that tin would
be a factor.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[its-all-a-lie]

Getting back to a Nitric cell, I'd like to know if one could melt computer pins into an anode bar and recover
the gold from them in a Nitric cell?

There's the chance of Copper, Tin, Kovar, and Beryllium being in the ingot, and I suspect that tin would
be a factor.

Cheers,

Mike

Why melt them? The process would be much more simple if they were run intact rather than melting them together into a large mass. Nitric will rid them of any base metals and leave the gold foils behind to be processed in AR. This "cell" will only make a simple process complex.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Getting back to a Nitric cell, I'd like to know if one could melt computer pins into an anode bar and recover
the gold from them in a Nitric cell?

There's the chance of Copper, Tin, Kovar, and Beryllium being in the ingot, and I suspect that tin would
be a factor.

Cheers,

Mike

Why melt them? The process would be much more simple if they were run intact rather than melting them together into a large mass. Nitric will rid them of any base metals and leave the gold foils behind to be processed in AR. This "cell" will only make a simple process complex.

If you are running a copper cell, melting pins into a homogeneous anode and processing is a viable option, you would be recovering any gold as well as any other metals associated with the copper base the pins are made of, as anode slime. But I would think this only would be a cost effective viable option for a large amount of pins that were copper base, with gold plate.

Another option would be to use a sulfuric stripping cell, but this wouldn't be a good option if you have a large quantity of pins to run.

Another option would be to melt into a homogenous alloy, and then to atomize to a small enough size that you can then use a wet acid process to dissolve/precipitate selectively

You could also use an Iodide process, cyanide process, AR, AP, etc etc etc. Each having their merits and downsides.

Point is that there are many different ways to recover and refine material of this nature that to suggest a specific way is really just expression your own personal preference based on your own personal experience. Each refiner should learn about the recovery and refining processes they feel comfortable with, and then choose accordingly based on their own criteria which is better for what type and amount of material.

I will say this, although what the OP originally posted might work, it certainly is not a very well thought out design, nor is it worth even a fraction of the amount of money being asked for it. In short, it's a cheeseball way of processing material of the type it claims to be able to do so. The ebay seller should be dragged out in the street, and repeatedly beaten with a stick, and then find the mold that made him, and break that as well, then go further and find the mold maker and treat him in kind.

I like seeing these types of solutions posted on this forum, it gives people that know an opportunity to defunct or discount their quackery so that when searched on google and the like, people will come across this thread read and hopefully realize that what sounded so amazing on ebay, is really just another ebay seller preying on people that don't know better!

Scott

 

[Harold_V]

Before jumping in on the concept of a copper parting cell, do keep in mind, such cells tend to work very best with relatively pure metals. If the level of contamination is too high, electrolyte life suffers, so the process doesn't really work well. It can reach a point of failure in just a few hours, with very little work having been accomplished. Part of the problem you'd experience is copper sloughing off and recombining with the slimes. That defeats the purpose of the cell. Been there, done that, didn't like the end result.

Melting electronic scrap surely wouldn't work unless you could raise the level of copper and lower the levels of other base metals. That can be accomplished in the furnace, at least eliminating zinc, which would be a serious problem. Your best bet with plated items such as pins is to strip with a sulfuric cell.

Harold

 

[Debbi Brys]

A scam?

 

[Debbi Brys]

In nitric, gold becomes mud or sludge.
I am curious. I am thinking about the Refineit Gold Refining System.
During a electrolytic nitric process, would not the gold be attracted to the cathode and attach to it?
Since you don't want gold sticking on the cathode.
A filter paper barrior is used to keep that from happening.
What is the micron rating of the filter paper?
Could I use a regular coffee filter as the anode filter bag?
Or would a regular paper coffee filter will fall apart in hot nitric after 12- 24 hours?
Why is ashless filter paper recommended?
Anyone know about this?
Deb

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

In nitric, gold becomes mud or sludge.

Nitric Acid alone does not dissolve gold, so gold does not become a mud or sludge in nitric acid. What does happen is all the other metals are parted from the gold, and the gold is left behind. That might be what you are calling mud or sludge, but the Nitric Acid doesn't cause this, it's the parting of the metals and the gold being left behind.

I am curious. I am thinking about the Refineit Gold Refining System.
During a electrolytic nitric process, would not the gold be attracted to the cathode and attach to it?

The gold is not attracted to the cathode, because it never is dissolved into solution.

Since you don't want gold sticking on the cathode.
A filter paper barrior is used to keep that from happening.
What is the micron rating of the filter paper?

The gold is never dissolved into solution, so the filter bag is only there to retain the gold that does not dissolve into solution. The micron size is small enough so that the small grains of gold do not fall to the bottom and have to be filtered later.

Could I use a regular coffee filter as the anode filter bag?
Or would a regular paper coffee filter will fall apart in hot nitric after 12- 24 hours?
Why is ashless filter paper recommended?
Anyone know about this?
Deb

You could probably use a regular polyproplyne anode bag like this:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...evice=c&geo_id=10232&keyword=anode+bag&crdt=0

The entire process is fairly well known. You can do a search of the forum and come up with all the information you need, and probably answer all your questions as well. Also, you can read patents online and find many different designs and processes that cover this exact subject.

Scott