Wand Induction Melter

[Dan Dement]

I have been asked to post about he new Wand Induction Melter that I have been Beta Testing for Z Tech Advanced Technologies. Contact Allison 909 390 1827 Ext 430. To be clear, I have no financial interest in this in any way but consider Z Tech friends. I have bought two Laser Welders form them and consider them the finet in my industry. The melter is $5,000 , Pump $425. and packing $125. and comes with a crucsible. Machine is made in Korea and not made by Z-Tech but they are very knowledgable people and will offer support. REquires 220 20 amp servie but I did a 30 amp service and wired the pump and melter together for safety purposes. I do not know know to post multiple pictures but have lots of them if you want me to see more. Please just PM me your email and I will send as many as you want to see. I have used this melter for about 6 months and have recommended some changes and to be truthful, this is my second one. I can melt about 600 + grams at one time. From cold start, takes about 2 minutes for the wand to get orange hot and depending on the amount of metal, usually is done in 3 min. After it is used, remelts are very quick as I usually melt several times a day when busy. Crucible is press fitted and held in my a fabric type liner and works Very well as you can turn it upside down 180 degrees! Now it goes to 1500 degrees so it will NOT do Palladium or Platinum. Most of the other induction melters do not do Pd or Pt but I have one that does both.

Great smaller melter for doing XRF and SG reading. Quick, Certainly Safer than a torch, great for up to about 20 oz's. I have REALLY put thru the paces and I highly recommend it.

if you want more pictures or info, please PM me your email. Being a newbie, I have not sure now to do multi pictures yet!

Dan Dement

 

[Westerngs]

When you say it goes to 1500 degrees is that F or C or K?

 

[Dan Dement]

C. Melts Gold and Silver no problem. Does NOT melt Platinum Or Palladium. I don't have a Digital temp. To actually check it but the results warrant the claim. I do have induction equipment that does melt Platinum and Palladium and cast both on a daily basis. Circuitry, quality of circulation system, and circuitry seems to be well made. Victor of ZTech is an Engineer and has Lots of related laser and induction experience.

 

[Palladium]

You do realize this is not nothing new to the market right!

 

[Dan Dement]

PD,

I would appreciate it if you could show me another Induction Wand Melter. I need to be enlightened!

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Palladium]

Well what do you know about that. Hugh !!!

 

[Harold_V]

I expect the wand is nothing more than a small furnace, coil and all, water cooled. The crucible fits inside the coil. Am I correct?

It's not a big deal--although I'm not making light of the design. Any small melting furnace can be made mobile.

Harold

 

[Dan Dement]

Guys,

I am still waiting! Really no big deal. Anyone can do and after all, there are HUNDREDS of them out there! What in the heck does this this Newbie know! After, it's not a Fire Assay!

Yes, I will roast you when you are wrong and I expect to be roasted when I am wrong! Now, say you ran off at the keyboard and we will be friends!

Dan :lol:

 

[MysticColby]

What makes it a WAND induction melter? I don't see any wand in the pictures...
when you say wand, I picture something like thisWhere stick(s) are inserted into the crucible with metal, heat is applied, metal melts. I thought one of the things about induction melting is that it had to surround the metal, not be submerged in it.

 

[Dan Dement]

Mystic,

I appreciate your inquiry and Induction Melters come from the Small Wand Melter up to the giant Steal Melters the size of many Big Dump Trucks that you see on the Discover channel. The ones that I use for the Jewelry Industry, basically are of the a similar design with a big Electronic Coil and a copper water cooled Spiral Cooper Coil which the Crucible sets into. If you scroll down on the Under Bench unit, you will see that the Electronic's of the melter are separated by a 6 foot thick cord and the Crucible is on a movable Wand which melts the gold and allows you to take it directly into the ingot mold. Most of the Induction Melters that I have seen do not Melt Palladium or Platinum however, I do have the Supercast 13 from RDO

http://www.rdoinduction.com

who I have a good realationship. Bob is now showing a similar type of setup but with no melter under 1TSSS model for some Industrial Use. Please understand that this has been a year long project and I have had discussions with both RDO & Z-Tech and consider both companies to be friends. Now, RDO does have a new counter top melter that is not shown on his website. The difference is the crucible sits in a stationary fixture and you are moving hot metal around on tongs or pliers which does not appeal to me. Hence, the wand were you just grab it and dump it! You can actually turn the Wand 180 degrees upside down. It is pressed fit in with a burn proof fiber type cloth which I use in Platinum castings but not so difficult make changing out crucibles difficult. I just bought 18 crucibles for $38. delivered. shipped direct. I am getting about 6 weeks plus out of a crucible and have not taken them to the point I am scared of them. When it starts getting thin and I question them, I change it.

In looking at your drawing, I am sure it works on some BIG melter but none I have seen for the jewelry Industry. My Supercast 13 can do Titanium but metal would you make the melting Diode from? I am certainly no Engineer and make no claim to expertise in these matters. I can tell that all the gold crucibles are carbon lined and heat up with or without metal. All the High heat ( Pd & PT) do not have liners and you have to be careful not to try to melt fine sand like platinum because it will not melt. You have to start with a pieces larger than BB's or you are going to have problems. After it is melter, you can add the finer materails do it like bench findings. Understand, you have to do Palladium under Argon or a Vacuum or it will get brittle.

For us, this small melter has been a welcomed addition as we melt almost every gold purchase we do. It's far safer than a torch and certainly a lot cleaner. When I have some time, I will run actual timed heating experiments. all I can tell you is after you used it once and it's warmed up: it's way under 2 minutes depending on teh size of the melt. We SG and XRF the results and then just keep building the purchased gold up to 3-400 grams.

Hope that answered your question. Send a little time or the RDO Induction site and it explains it a lot better than I can. If you call, tell Bob that Dan sent you. He will probally hang up =!

Dan

 

[MysticColby]

Ah, I think I see it now. by wand, you mean the crucible can be picked up while still being heated and poured straight away. Like a mobile tilt furnace.

The picture I showed is from google images I had seen them melting iron on discovery channel (as you guessed) using giant electrodes that simply pass a huge current through the metal to heat and melt it. I was just looking for a picture of that. I know induction melting is different, that's just the style that came to mind when I read 'wand'

I like it! I don't like the price tag. hard to beat the price of a $20 firebrick furnace and $15 hand-made-from-pipe-fittings torch and $5 worth of propane, though.

 

[butcher]

I know very little about induction furnaces, I have read just a little about them.

The coil is normally a copper pipe coil in the ones I have seen, the induction field current is through this metal copper coil the way I understand it, the water flows through the coil for cooling. if I understand it correctly.

My question is how is the electric current being supplied to the coil, in the hand held unit, and still be flexible enough to pour ant twist it, is it some types of weaved copper jacketed hose, or what?

Dan I also do not think any one one run off at the keyboard and that response was un-called for.
chill out.

 

[Dan Dement]

Butcher,

The Cable is stiff but flexible. The cable is covered with a woven mesh covering about 7 different wires and water lines. There are at least two water lines as the water circulates if the pump is running, two thick power cords,and at least two smaller power lines for the remote switch. If you scroll down on the bench picture you will see that I store it under counter, out of the way. I also have a free standing Supercast 13 which does TI/PT/PD. To the best of my knowledge, there is not another one on the market. The design was questioned by another equipment manufacturer yet he has a similar type unit but not a melter.

As far as chilling out, I got called out and responded. As of this date, I think I was correct. No apology was offered and I extended an out and it was ignored. I am here to learn and want to get along with everybody!

Dan

 

[Westerngs]

Dan,

Basically your furnace is a very small example of much larger induction furnaces made by inductotherm and other induction furnace manufacturers. The power supply is stationary but the crucible, complete with water cooled coils, can be moved as far from the power supply as the cooling hose etc. will allow.

Not a very new concept, plenty of these around.

 

[butcher]

Dan, thank you for sharing, and explaining information on the furnace lines.

Dan you seem to feel that when someone here tried to make a statement about there being other types of these furnaces that they were calling you out, that is not the case here, you do not need to come to the forum with a chip on your shoulder, this is a very friendly forum, and yes sometimes what we say will be questioned, do not take it as a personal thing, accuracy of information is very important to us, and sometimes we disagree on a subject, but we never call anyone out, we are not looking to knock off any chips, that is just not what we do here, you are a standup guy, if someone disagrees with you just stand up and state your point, but do not walk around like a school boy with a chip on his shoulder, you are a bigger man than that, Dan you seem very knowledgeable in your field, but there are others who have much knowledge about these things also here, there intent is to share what they know with you and the rest of us member's, so that we all not only get an education in this field but can gain some experience in this field, two of our members was trying to help (two of the most respected members on the forum, Known for very accurate information, and that very rarely say anything they are not very sure of), these long term members were NOT calling you out.

Chill out we all are here to help each other not play knock yer block off in the schoolyard.

Relax, you have a lot to share to help us all learn, and this forum is a great place for you to learn new tricks to help your business and interests, lets just make it a great place to learn.

 

[Dan Dement]

Butcher, Palladium,& all,

Your right, I have now found several larger similar designs in much larger machines outside the Jewelry Industry. I apologize!

This machine is the only smaller machine that I have seen that uses this principal! It's very handy for melting smaller gold buys if you use an XRF or SG machine. Works great and offers a safer method for the Gold Buyers who are pressed for space.

No chip here! I am a forgive & forget type of guy. I am here to learn and expand my knowledge. I buy a little gold in a fair and honest way but do truly love the High Heat metals!

Palladium, a personal apology! Funny thing is, PD is over 90% of my business!

I have chastized and take it like a man. My heart is in the right place! I really only have a three inch problem! My Mouth:What goes in it & What comes out of it!

Peace Guys,
Dan

 

[zenophryk]

Butcher, I also have never used an induction furnace, but I would love to build one you can even use the magnetic field generated to magnetically levitate the metal you are melting, so no need for a crucible (sure, only small amounts, but still cool).
for the flexibility question you had. the coil is indeed usually a copper tubing, so it can be used as a electrical coil, and cooling liquid can be passed through it to keep the coil from melting, but you can switch from copper to some sort of flexible hose like vinyl, or probably a more heat resistant rubber once the coil gets to the flexible part, and then standard stranded copper wire can be used to pass the current to the coil, it would just connect where the copper transitions to the rubber.

-Zenophryk

 

[Dan Dement]

Zenophryk,

Just curious but can you magnetically levitate metals that are not magnetic? It does not seem logical to me but I have NO expertise in this area. I know that all the gold crucibles I have seen are carbon lined. Actually the crucibles are what get hot in turn heating the metal. On the high heat crucibles, I believe the material is zirconia and the metal is actually what gets hot. You have to be careful in PT and PD in both quantity by having at least 10 grams and metal grain size. Powder or super small pellets will not melt by itself in a crucible. You have to have a starter piece in order to melt powder or sand fine granules by adding to the melted starter base. Just a little experience with jewelry size Induction Melters and have certainly learned what not to do!

I do not find too many Induction Melters that will do PD/PT.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Harold_V]

Guys,

I am still waiting! Really no big deal. Anyone can do and after all, there are HUNDREDS of them out there! What in the heck does this this Newbie know! After, it's not a Fire Assay!

Yes, I will roast you when you are wrong and I expect to be roasted when I am wrong! Now, say you ran off at the keyboard and we will be friends!

Dan :lol:

I'm getting a distinct taste of attitude here. I trust you understand that it's in your best interest to reign in?

A little friendly advice.

This forum has a small number of moderators, most of whom have earned their position either through hard work and dedication to the board, or from considerable experience in the field of refining, or from education. Some have earned it from all methods. To that end, we are the ones that dictate what will and will not be discussed on this forum---or if someone is running off at the keyboard, or not. Please behave accordingly. I take a very dim view of newbies coming to this board and turning it upside down. Do not dictate terms, and do not make demands of others. You will quickly wear out your welcome here.

That induction furnace offers only one thing different from others---the ability to pick up the furnace and pour. I'm not making light of the design, but it isn't beyond the ability of others to do the same thing. It just happens that they do not, for reasons best known to them. I don't intend to make it my business, but I do intend to see to it that this subject comes to an end. The primary reason is that you have already been accused of spamming the board, and this bolsters the accusation.

Understand that I'm not easy to deal with when you get me riled, nor am I misdirected because you include a :lol: with your message.

Harold

 

[Dan Dement]

Harold,

I hear you loud and clear! I understand it is not what I said but the way I said it and it will not be tolerated. I again apologize to those that I have offended and 100% understand that it will not be tolerated!

As far as the spamming is concerned, others have investigated and I think I was cleared however if you would like references, I am more than happy to provide to any level you want to investigate.

I undertand that GRF has a great wealth of information and I am here to learn & share. I am a straight guy with over 40 years in my business were your word means everything! I will taste my words and remarks carefully in the future.

I sometimes respond on my Ipad and it is not the best to edit so if words come out strange sometimes, it's the auto-fillin. I hope I can cleared the matter up but in this case, your are the Judge and Jury!

Thanks for your time,

Dan