What Have I Created? AR help needed

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Mouchman

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
5
Before i begin, this is my first post and im not too sure of the procedure, so if im doing something wrong, i would appreciate any help to correct it

I just purchased the shor-international AR starter kit, and i know that this is frowned upon by most people as a waste, it was the easiest way for me to obtain the chemicals need to start experimenting with AR. I also bought a gallon of Safer Muratic acid from home depot with a concentration of <25% (had to do some digging to find it and and i was disappointed a little that it wasn't higher) along with a beaker kit from homesciencetools.com so i have proper tool as well.

my first two attempts ended miserably, with my entire setup being knocked over the first time (AR all over my back yard lawn) and the second time resulted in no precipitated gold. yet my third attempt worked a little better.

i did some calculations and i mixed 1/8th of a pound of the subzero nitric substitute to approximately 385 ml of muratic acid (<25%) and i added gold plated copper pins to the mix and removed them after the gold plating was dissolved but before the copper was dissolved to conserve the AR mix. once i dissolved as much gold as i could, i added urea to neutralize the mix and then added about a tablespoon of precipitant, and left it outside to work overnight.

when i went back outside this after noon, the solution had crystalized on the bottom of the AR mix. i filtered out the crystals and put them into a seperate beaker. while doing so, i tested the remaining mix with precious metal detector and it showed that there was NO GOLD left in the AR. after this i went back to working with the crystals. i put about a teaspoon full of them in a beaker and rinsed them with water. upon doing so, they didnt disolve but instead began to turn a golden yellow and the water got a blue tint. i looked online and guessed that the crystals were gold(III)chloride.

wikipedia stated that they would react with hydrogen Peroxide, so i poured in about 100 - 150 mls of 3% H2O2 and the crystals began reacting and turning slightly brown and the H2O2 light blue. i was assuming that the resultant brown particles were gold and filtered them out and attempted to melt them but the result was a red flakey substance.

my question was during my process, what the heck did i create? was it gold(III) chloride? is there a way to take these crystals and reclaim the gold from them?
any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
((((( i added gold plated copper pins to the mix and removed them after the gold plating was dissolved but before the copper was dissolved to conserve the AR mix.))))))

My guess is the gold has cemented to the copper pins. Look up electromotive series and cementing gold with copper. Dont throw any thing away. Your gold is still there. Just not in a form you are familiar with yet.
 
Mouchman,
Stop what you are doing. Put everything in a jar you can close and store safely. Then start reading about what you are really trying to do.

Have you contacted Shor to find out where you have went wrong?
After all it is their system so they should be giving you advice on how to use it.
What have they told you?
How much is their help going to cost you?

I just purchased the shor-international AR starter kit, and i know that this is frowned upon by most people as a waste, it was the easiest way for me to obtain the chemicals need to start experimenting with AR.

I don’t feel this statement is a valid one. If you would have read Hokes book and the corresponding posts here on the forum you would be able to find the names of all the chemicals you need and buy them locally.

Example:
I live in California (the hardest state to get chemicals) and can easily get everything needed to process your pins at a few hardware stores, a grocery store and a pool supply store

HCl, hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid are all the same thing. Here in Fresno the hardware stores only offer the safer brands so I go to Leslies pool supply and buy a 2 gallon pack of muriatic acid 31.45% for $12.00 and it works perfectly. While there I also get a gallon of pool chlorine for $4.00. Used to make an AR substitute for refining gold after recovery.

At Homedepot you can buy Stumpout from Bonide for $6,00 a pound and it will drop four gold from solution just like any other sodium Metabisulfite product you can buy since it is the same thing.

I can buy hydrogen peroxide at any location that sells first aid stuff for less than $3.00 a quart.

Now with these supplies I can process almost any electronic related part and recover the PM’s contained.

It is time to start reading.
Hokes book is a free download. You can find the link in several members signature lines. Download it and print out a copy and put it in a binder so you can bookmark relevant topics.

Download and read the forum handbooks vol. 1 & 2 they contain a lot of information about the chemicals we use and how to do the different processes you will be using.

Hope this will get you going in the right direction.
Welcome to the forum
Tom C.
 
niteliteone, thank you so much, your advice gives a lot of insight on where to find proper chemicals for continuing experimenting with AR, i truly appreciate it. i intend to start a new batch as soon as possible with now refined peramerters.

having that been said, do you have any idea on how to salvage what ive done already? i took the remaining solution after i filtered out the chemicals and contained it in a larger jar. i also tested it with the Precious metal detection liquid and it showed there to be no gold left in the solution, so does that mean that the gold had crystalized with the chlorine? or am i just saving those crystals for no reason? once again, any help would be greatly appreciated
 
From what I understand of your process your gold will probably have deposited back on the pins in the solution. It will be a fine black powder on the pins and the bottom of the container.

So keep everything for now and with a little learning you will be able to recover any gold that was not discarded. Some can be in solution (liquid), some can be in powder on the bottom of the beaker and some can be stuck on the remaining pins as a black film. As long as you dont throw anything out you will not lose it.

I know Hokes book doesn't cover escrap but the processes she talks about are the same ones we use. She wrote the book in simple layman terms and that is how the many members here will talk and they will also insist you read the book before many will help.

Be sure to also read on chmical safety and the danders of the fumes involved in what we do here. It could save your life or those of family members.
Here is a good place to start.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

Also lazersteve has some nice videos for free on his website that will show how to recover gold with the chemicals I mentioned earlier. He also sells some od the supplies you might want. Just find one of his posts here on the forum and in his signatuer line is the link to his site. or follow ths link.

http://goldrecovery.us/
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Username: gold
Password: goldm1ner*
 
Mouchman said:
I just purchased the shor-international AR starter kit, and i know that this is frowned upon by most people as a waste, it was the easiest way for me to obtain the chemicals need to start experimenting with AR.

Sigh!

Another one, eh?

Will you guys ever learn?

Harold
 
Harold_V said:
Mouchman said:
I just purchased the shor-international AR starter kit, and i know that this is frowned upon by most people as a waste, it was the easiest way for me to obtain the chemicals need to start experimenting with AR.

Sigh!

Another one, eh?

Will you guys ever learn?

Harold


Yes so long as they find the forum and take the advice to read Hoke....
 
Mouchman said:
so if im doing something wrong, i would appreciate any help to correct it

I just purchased the shor-international AR starter kit.

That was your first mistake!

All of the chemicals you will need are available locally, you need to do your homework, learning which chemicals are used for what purpose, as an example SMB (sodium metabisulphite) is used in the brewing industry as a sterilising agent, buy it from your local homebrewing supplier.

This thread will help with your homework
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5896
Thanks to chumbawamba for the work he put in to compile that list.

As has already been advised, Hoke's book and the guided tour will be a good place to start your learning curve.
 

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