Hi All, After Droping the PGM's With Zinc using the HCL+Clorox Method. If I used aluminum to bring down the zinc and then filtered off the the zinc I Precipitated. at that point. how do you get the zinc back to a metal form, or could you just reuse it in the form its in(to precipitate the next batch). Would that be a Salt ? if you remelt it wont part of it vaporize ?
When The Zinc Comes Down...
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jimdoc
Well-known member
Zinc fumes are poisonous, you are better off not messing with it. Its not that expensive.
Jim
Jim
jimdoc
Well-known member
This explains it;
http://periodictable.com/ZincSafety.html
It says pure zinc is not that big a problem, but recovering it from refining materials, then how do you know what the hazards are? Basically you have to watch out for visible stringy fumes.
I bought about 65 lbs for a little over $100 at Roto Metals. That will last me forever. It looks like the price went up since I bought mine, but it still isn't very expensive. They have free shipping for most purchases over $100.
http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/zincingots.htm?gclid=CLKj1czUt6wCFQN-hwodCGw-8g
Jim
http://periodictable.com/ZincSafety.html
It says pure zinc is not that big a problem, but recovering it from refining materials, then how do you know what the hazards are? Basically you have to watch out for visible stringy fumes.
I bought about 65 lbs for a little over $100 at Roto Metals. That will last me forever. It looks like the price went up since I bought mine, but it still isn't very expensive. They have free shipping for most purchases over $100.
http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/zincingots.htm?gclid=CLKj1czUt6wCFQN-hwodCGw-8g
Jim
I cannot give an answer, but zink is a very reactive metal, and being high in the (reactivity series of metals),will stay in solution when other metals are cemented out (lower metals in series), I am not sure if aluminum will have enough voltage difference to cement the zink, and aluminum will probably just gel up and trap the zink with the goop it forms,I am not sure how soluble the hydroxide of zink is (most hydroxides are fairly insoluble),and it may be easier to recover the zink as an zink hydroxide using sodium hydroxide (not aluminum), but then changing that back into zink would be another challenge.
I agree with jimdoc, way too much trouble trying to recover for reuse, for such an easy available metal.
spend your time learning the more valueable metal recovery and refining,
To learn that the stove is hot sometimes some of us need to touch it, we are not as smart as those who listen and do not touch it.
I agree with jimdoc, way too much trouble trying to recover for reuse, for such an easy available metal.
spend your time learning the more valueable metal recovery and refining,
To learn that the stove is hot sometimes some of us need to touch it, we are not as smart as those who listen and do not touch it.
Thanks for the response Jimdoc. I, to have already purchased 6 (4 pound blocks) before I started the thread. I was just posting from a point of view that there is a lot more aluminum in auto salvage yards then their is zinc. Although I think that maybe some brake boosters that look brassy with that purplish hue at an angle were made of zinc...and some of the old Mag Wheels were... I do appreciate your help and have no intention of trying it beyond this point. Butcher, you always have the most colorful way of putting things. I always enjoy reading your posts... And you're right. Some of us dont listen and have to feel... When you neutralize the acid, won't the zinc come down anyway?
Jimdoc, Really Cool article on Zinc. Thanks..again. That brings up other problems that I may be getting into trouble with... Like cutting factory exhaust systems, wheather its a Muffler or a Catalytic Converter. The casings on these are probably galvanized, because they melt more than they cut when using torches... (in another words, the metal dosen't blow out of the way as easy as steel, It tends to clump up at the cut. Not yielding a clean cut.) Remember I work at a Famliy owned auto salvage yard...
philddreamer
Well-known member
They could be Stainless steel...
Phil
Phil
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=ZINC+die+cast++electrical+conduit+fittings+and+boxes&oq=ZINC+die+cast++electrical+conduit+fittings+and+boxes&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=11079l13766l0l14376l9l9l0l1l0l0l203l1202l1.5.2l8l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=214f322f61c06282&biw=1152&bih=619
In weak basic solutions containing Zn2+ ions, the hydroxide Zn(OH)2 forms as a white precipitate. In stronger alkaline solutions, this hydroxide is dissolved to form zincates ([Zn(OH)4]2−).
Zinc is the fourth most common metal in use, trailing only iron, aluminum, and copper with an annual production of about 12 million tones.
In weak basic solutions containing Zn2+ ions, the hydroxide Zn(OH)2 forms as a white precipitate. In stronger alkaline solutions, this hydroxide is dissolved to form zincates ([Zn(OH)4]2−).
Zinc is the fourth most common metal in use, trailing only iron, aluminum, and copper with an annual production of about 12 million tones.
Phil Dreamer, I can't remember cutting any stainless with torches. But these exhaust are usually thicker, like there dipped in zinc coating, sometimes double walled. the stainless steel, I can remember was on some exotic car exhaust. I can't every remember cutting one of those with a torch. usually the pipe is not stainless, in my experence. although The front pipe on an infinity, between the exhaust manifold and the cat was. Its not hard to tell if you using a sawzall blade to cut one of these off... It will dull the heck out of a good blade quick...
If you are going to refine the cats for interest then all good and fine but in truth if you have decent volumes you would be financially better off selling them as is uncut and identifiable to the buyer. If you look up the posts by I think his name on here is Bubba who spent years and loads of money trying to refine his you will see what I mean, you will never get all the PGMs using chemical refining while the big refiners can and do but by using huge plasma arc furnaces.
His route now is based on tens if not hundreds of thousands dollars of assays on every cat out there so he knows exactly what he's buying whether just Pt or a mix of PGMs in each cat. You need deep pockets to take his route so the easiest way to maximise your earning potential in my opinion is to save the cats until you have volume and get some bids on your stash. If you sell ten a week it's not going to interest the bigger buyers but loads of 500 might just tempt them and the price will very competitive....
His route now is based on tens if not hundreds of thousands dollars of assays on every cat out there so he knows exactly what he's buying whether just Pt or a mix of PGMs in each cat. You need deep pockets to take his route so the easiest way to maximise your earning potential in my opinion is to save the cats until you have volume and get some bids on your stash. If you sell ten a week it's not going to interest the bigger buyers but loads of 500 might just tempt them and the price will very competitive....
Hi Nick Thanks for the response, But I like bubba will just have to learn the hard way, when It comes to that subject... Thanks again for the the reply.. and Happy Holidays.. P.s. Their might not be any money in it at first, But the most important thing is to start.. And we all can't start big.. But if we start, At least we stand a chance of getting big. And at the very least we learn something along the way.. :mrgreen:
jimdoc
Well-known member
awbrew said:
Remember it takes money to get equipment, chemicals and safety requirements to start processing cats. So you start out in the hole right from the start until you start getting the platinum, palladium and rhodium. And those metals are tougher to work with than gold and silver.
Jim
philddreamer
Well-known member
Awbrew, the description that you gave,
"because they melt more than they cut when using torches... (in another words, the metal dosen't blow out of the way as easy as steel, It tends to clump up at the cut. Not yielding a clean cut.) "
that sounds to me like stainless steel, & oxi/act is not the proper "tool" for cutting it; galvanize gives itself away because it burns & smokes leaving white "strands" floating in the air. At least that's my experience with does metals. (I've been a steel fabricator for 38 years.)
I've only opened 2 cats so I can get to the honey combs; they were SS, & from european cars. For cutting SS I use a small grinder with cutting dics. Saws don't last long, neither do most drill bits, (if you are trying to drill holes). If its mild steel, & there's rust on the inside, the torch won't burn thru either, & there will be a lot of popping & molten metal flying all over, OUCH! :mrgreen:
So, if is not SS, & it's not galvanize, (white fumes & strands floating in the air), its most likely some other alloy.
Take care!
Phil
"because they melt more than they cut when using torches... (in another words, the metal dosen't blow out of the way as easy as steel, It tends to clump up at the cut. Not yielding a clean cut.) "
that sounds to me like stainless steel, & oxi/act is not the proper "tool" for cutting it; galvanize gives itself away because it burns & smokes leaving white "strands" floating in the air. At least that's my experience with does metals. (I've been a steel fabricator for 38 years.)
I've only opened 2 cats so I can get to the honey combs; they were SS, & from european cars. For cutting SS I use a small grinder with cutting dics. Saws don't last long, neither do most drill bits, (if you are trying to drill holes). If its mild steel, & there's rust on the inside, the torch won't burn thru either, & there will be a lot of popping & molten metal flying all over, OUCH! :mrgreen:
So, if is not SS, & it's not galvanize, (white fumes & strands floating in the air), its most likely some other alloy.
Take care!
Phil
philddreamer
Well-known member
I remember also having trouble using the oxi/acet torch when cutting high carbon steel, too.
jimdoc said:
Yes true, But it always amazes me that we fill that lots of things can't be done, unless we start out on top... When the truth is that the old timers who discovered most of this field, didn't feel like we needed very much at all, Just our attention and a wellingness to learn and try to build on what they taught ... :mrgreen:
qst42know
Well-known member
Having a catalytic converter requires a high temp oxidation resistant pipe. Some grade of stainless is far cheaper than a boat load of warranty claims.
Efficient torch cutting is essentially rapid oxidation and some tool steels are also high alloy steels resistant to oxidation.
Efficient torch cutting is essentially rapid oxidation and some tool steels are also high alloy steels resistant to oxidation.
