Why no reaction to sulfamic or SMB

[dkbinco]

Greetings all, I have saved up some cons from my blue bowl, A bunch of crushed ore at 2 OPT roasted and panned, because it's all sulfide stuff. The XRF actually says 4 OPT after roasting??? I guess it cant see the AU if it's too small. (caliverite telluride ore) So I dropped 1 oz. in 150 ml of HCL heated up to 80 C, dropped a little at a time HNO3 up to 30 ml stopped and waited. I made stannous solution with tin powder, stannous chrystals, HCL, and distilled water. I tested the solution to be pregnant, purple color, I filtered into a 1000 ml flask with buchner funnel and little 12 v. air pump I put together, I calibrated my 2nd ph meter from China Amazon to be good, but showed a ph of 16 so I diluted with 3x the volume of distilled water then I tried to denox with sulfamic acid crystals and was getting no reaction so I was leary of ph meter and threw some distilled water ice cubes in and cooled down, the solution is still pregnant, then tried to drop with SMB and solution turned dark green black, no bubbling or fizzing just dark. I let it set overnight and pouted because I know what is supposed to happen when you drop SMB in AR. Today I heated it back up to 80 C. magnetic stirrers don't work unless the solution is just water, ARG.....I let it boil down to 150 ml of dark gold solution with white sediment on bottom after stirring and adding 50 ml HCL. It is sitting in shop and still pregnant, but what to do now? I appreciate all of you, I learned here, and still learning so I appreciate any suggestions.

 

[eaglekeeper]

I calibrated my 2nd ph meter from China Amazon to be good, but showed a ph of 16

I have no experience with ore samples.

I don't really like the idea of a PH meter, I use Ph paper. If your meter is even remotely correct, your PH is way, way too high. SMB requires a very low PH to work.

 

[dkbinco]

Thanks Dave, yeah I know the ph is way too high even if not 16, but I diluted and tried the sulfamic acid before I cooled it and no reaction so I was thinking it might be alright. Cooling is supposed to help with the so2 gas that stays longer to aid precipitation of the AU. The 150 um crushed ore has visible gold like tiny nuggets that I can see with a 10X loupe but cannot grab with tweezers and the blue bowl washes them out with other stuff because it's so small (I guess). Anyhow thanks for the response and I will try to find my litmus ph kit my wife lost.

 

[cejohnsonsr1]

A ph of 16 is way off the chart and not very likely anyway, given the acids you said you used. There’s no way your solution could be basic at all. What’s most likely is that there isn’t any gold in your ore.

 

[dkbinco]

A ph of 16 is way off the chart and not very likely anyway, given the acids you said you used. There’s no way your solution could be basic at all. What’s most likely is that there isn’t any gold in your ore.

I agree with you my friend, but I work part time at a private gold mine and have shot my ore and concentrates with an XRF so I know pretty much what is in this stuff. I dont understand why I got no reaction adding sulfamic acid when it was 70 to 80 C. and then no reaction with adding the SMB after I cooled it down to drop except the whole thing turned what I thought was black, but in the light it was dark, dark green. It's kind of contradictory to me, but I am still learning and this is the first sample of the cons I have been saving so I'm trying to figure it out. Thank you sir.

 

[dkbinco]

This is the solution after boiling from 600 to 200 ml, got thick and dark, and appears to be the black dust in the bottom with the white sediment, and it still test positive for AU.

 

[goldshark]

The SMB crystals turn black upon precipitation. Only after a few washes with HCL, will they start to turn Gold in color. Did you do a Stannous test on the rest of the solution? Are there any other metals associated with your ore cons, besides the Fe?

 

[Lino1406]

Greetings all, I have saved up some cons from my blue bowl, A bunch of crushed ore at 2 OPT roasted and panned, because it's all sulfide stuff. The XRF actually says 4 OPT after roasting??? I guess it cant see the AU if it's too small. (caliverite telluride ore) So I dropped 1 oz. in 150 ml of HCL heated up to 80 C, dropped a little at a time HNO3 up to 30 ml stopped and waited. I made stannous solution with tin powder, stannous chrystals, HCL, and distilled water. I tested the solution to be pregnant, purple color, I filtered into a 1000 ml flask with buchner funnel and little 12 v. air pump I put together, I calibrated my 2nd ph meter from China Amazon to be good, but showed a ph of 16 so I diluted with 3x the volume of distilled water then I tried to denox with sulfamic acid crystals and was getting no reaction so I was leary of ph meter and threw some distilled water ice cubes in and cooled down, the solution is still pregnant, then tried to drop with SMB and solution turned dark green black, no bubbling or fizzing just dark. I let it set overnight and pouted because I know what is supposed to happen when you drop SMB in AR. Today I heated it back up to 80 C. magnetic stirrers don't work unless the solution is just water, ARG.....I let it boil down to 150 ml of dark gold solution with white sediment on bottom after stirring and adding 50 ml HCL. It is sitting in shop and still pregnant, but what to do now? I appreciate all of you, I learned here, and still learning so I appreciate any suggestions.

You may check the solution by inserting a copper rod/sheet and see if it changes to dark/gold color

 

[Martijn]

and it still test positive for AU.

I don't see any purple in that stannous test. Dilute it and look for brown(copper) or purple(gold)
This could be a false positive.
What does OPT mean?
Did everything dissolve in the AR?
Anyway separate your solids from solution and try to dissolve the solids in warm water first. Then filter any remaining solids out to see if they hold any value.
And cementing on clean shiny copper will tell you if there are any pm's in solution like Lino said.

 

[kurtak]

Is your SMB sodium meta bisulf - I - te --- or sodium meta bisulf - A - te

It needs to be sulfite --- not sulfate

Kurt

 

[dkbinco]

The SMB crystals turn black upon precipitation. Only after a few washes with HCL, will they start to turn Gold in color. Did you do a Stannous test on the rest of the solution? Are there any other metals associated with your ore cons, besides the Fe?

Hi goldshark, I filtered everything into the flask and poured it in that beaker, boiled it down, then added 50 ml HCL, that's everything except filtered solids. I am on hold... This is what I got from XRF its percentages. Are you saying the black dust are SMB crystals or metal? It was only 1 oz of material.

 

[dkbinco]

Is your SMB sodium meta bisulf - I - te --- or sodium meta bisulf - A - te

It needs to be sulfite --- not sulfate

Kurt

Greetings Kurt, I will show, thanks.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Greetings Kurt, I will show, thanks.

It can go old.
Check if it fizzes and create an unpleasant odor of SO₂
When you drip a few drops if HCl on it.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi goldshark, I filtered everything into the flask and poured it in that beaker, boiled it down, then added 50 ml HCL, that's everything except filtered solids. I am on hold... This is what I got from XRF its percentages. Are you saying the black dust are SMB crystals or metal? It was only 1 oz of material.

So the solids contain Gold and also Arsenic which means stop what you are doing.
What are your feedstock?

 

[dkbinco]

I don't see any purple in that stannous test. Dilute it and look for brown(copper) or purple(gold)
This could be a false positive.
What does OPT mean?
Did everything dissolve in the AR?
Anyway separate your solids from solution and try to dissolve the solids in warm water first. Then filter any remaining solids out to see if they hold any value.
And cementing on clean shiny copper will tell you if there are any pm's in solution like Lino said.

Greetings my friend, I saved the solids from the AR, looks mostly like pyrite, I apologise (opt) I understand is (ounce per ton) same as 34,286 ppm (parts per million) is 1 troy oz. I have watched too many u-tube videos, but have been learning for over a year, here, from Hokes book, and a lot of other reading. I work part time with a friend who has a mine and is very knowledgeable of geology and mineralogy, but they just make concentrates and send them to Nevada to smelt. They do not heap leach or do the process's we do at home. I am trying to follow what the big boys do here. HA! The purple is light or veage now, but not really brown, I can filter again and try to dissolve and test, but I don't like to move stuff out of original beaker, and will I loose value in another filter paper? I will look for a good piece of copper. Thanks for your help.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Greetings my friend, I saved the solids from the AR, looks mostly like pyrite, I apologise (opt) I understand is (ounce per ton) same as 34,286 ppm (parts per million) is 1 troy oz. I have watched too many u-tube videos, but have been learning for over a year, here, from Hokes book, and a lot of other reading. I work part time with a friend who has a mine and is very knowledgeable of geology and mineralogy, but they just make concentrates and send them to Nevada to smelt. They do not heap leach or do the process's we do at home. I am trying to follow what the big boys do here. HA! The purple is light or veage now, but not really brown, I can filter again and try to dissolve and test, but I don't like to move stuff out of original beaker, and will I loose value in another filter paper? I will look for a good piece of copper. Thanks for your help.

NONE of the big boys use AR on ore. They use Cyanide and their derivatives.
And you have an XRF saying it has Arsenic and Lead in it.
So if you continue using AR you will poison yourself and all around you.
Please take a trip to the doctor and do a Heavy metyal scan ask them specifically to check for Arsenic.

Edit for spelling.

 

[dkbinco]

So the solids contain Gold and also Arsenic which means stop what you are doing.
What are your feedstock?

Yes sir, The ore is basically the same minerals, the FE is supposed to be burned off in roasting, but some of this is mixed and out of blue bowl, (not roasted) but the same material. I only put it in solution because I can see TINY nuggets with a 10X loupe and I dont know how else to get it. I have the PPE needed. I cannot see gold with eye.

 

[dkbinco]

NONE of the big boys use AR on ore. They use Cyanide and their derivatives.
And you have an XRF saying it has Arsenic and Lead in it.
So if you continue using AR you will poison yourself and all around you.
PLease take a trip to the doctor and do a Heavy metyal scan ask them specifically to check for Arsenic.

Ok I will reevaluate, thank you.

 

[goldshark]

Assuming FE means Fe, It does not evaporate during a roast. The elements, or combination of elements which are driven off, or oxidized, are usually the elements such as Sulphur, Tellurium, Selenium, and several other compounds, which react with the atmosphere ( mainly Oxygen ), at a lower vapor pressure threshold. Long story short, assuming you have a concentrate with Tellurides, pyrites, and you roast them properly, the Te & S should be driven off, leaving only Fe ( Iron ), and maybe a little bit of gangue material. Your XRF assay report states it is more complex though. Did you do the XRF scan before, or after roasting?
I also see there is no specific quantity for the Au, other then some one wrote at the bottom, 2 OzT per ton .

 

[dkbinco]

Hello, I am sorry, yes Fe is iron and the reason I roast at 600 C for 10 or 20 minutes is to turn the sulfides to oxides. There is pyrite in this ore that is magnitized after the process.I was told around 34 ppm (parts per million) is 1 opt (ounce per ton) and the percentage of AU (gold) in the sample was around 2 opt and it was after a roasting I am not understanding, I think I am ow my own now yggdrasil said nobody does what I am trying to do and I should go to the hospital because I am going to kill myself. Thanks for th help.