why not h2so4 h202

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ericrm

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
1,198
Location
Canada, Quebec
i was wondering why everybody talk about hcl h2o2 but not h2so4 h2o2
im actualy trying it and what i have read about it not seem to be true...
there is a pic of what i have done so far

in the blue one is 30%h2so4/3%h2o2 with gold plated pins cu/ni/au with no tin or lead
it has been 2 day i have add 2time h2o2 ,solution is pretty much the same except for the growth of crystal inside and on the copper
in the brown one is 30%h2so4 only with gold plated pins cu/ni/au/sn/pb and bit of circuits boards
i dont see any precipitation or strange goo has other poeple have said...
in the green one is 30%h2so4/3%h2o2 with finger
it apears to go well but SLOWLY i hadd had 2 time 3% h2o2,the the main difference with hcl/h2o2 is the fact that the finger in the bottom seem to be untouch and i have to move them up to get the finger release...

i would gladly ear from this process,if anyone knows good or bad thing
 

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That is a very dangerous combination you are experimenting with. This reading should only be the start of your safety concerns for this mix. If I understand correctly you are only slightly away from forming explosive compounds, if you haven't already.

Extreme safety protocols are mandatory. Be sure to read the references at the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_solution
 
What makes you think dilute sulfuric with VERY dilute H2O2 is particularly dangerous? Sulfuric is one of the less dangerous acids to begin with (very stable) and the OP is using 3% H2O2, which is almost like no peroxide at all.

Even with 30% H2O2 in 30% H2SO4, I don't see any dangers beyond the regular dangers from acid and a strong oxidizer (e.g. acid burns skin, strong oxidizer burns skin). Beware of extreme bubbling causing a frothy burst in your face, maybe. Be careful during mixing the peroxide into the acid, since this is a dilution reaction that is exothermic (heat generating).

Of course, like any such chemical scheme, if you don't know about basic acid and strong oxidizer safety protocols, don't do it. Safety glasses, nitrile gloves, emergency shower, fume hood...

Piranha solution is CONCENTRATED sulfuric acid (93%) mixed with 30% H2O2. I have used that too (as a metallurgical etchant). It's chief danger is during mixing - the reaction is strongly exothermic (as is adding water to conc. acid - which is what you are doing when you add 30% H2O2, the other 70% is water...).

I am really perplexed what "explosive" compounds you are suggesting are being formed in mixing 3% H2O2 into 30% H2SO4?
 
H2SO4 ($30.00 gal at 98%) is allot more expensive than HCl ($3.50-7.00 gal 31%)

And less fun to handel :lol:

Eric
 
Geraldo said:
What makes you think dilute sulfuric with VERY dilute H2O2 is particularly dangerous? Sulfuric is one of the less dangerous acids to begin with (very stable) and the OP is using 3% H2O2, which is almost like no peroxide at all.

Even with 30% H2O2 in 30% H2SO4, I don't see any dangers beyond the regular dangers from acid and a strong oxidizer (e.g. acid burns skin, strong oxidizer burns skin). Beware of extreme bubbling causing a frothy burst in your face, maybe. Be careful during mixing the peroxide into the acid, since this is a dilution reaction that is exothermic (heat generating).

Of course, like any such chemical scheme, if you don't know about basic acid and strong oxidizer safety protocols, don't do it. Safety glasses, nitrile gloves, emergency shower, fume hood...

Piranha solution is CONCENTRATED sulfuric acid (93%) mixed with 30% H2O2. I have used that too (as a metallurgical etchant). It's chief danger is during mixing - the reaction is strongly exothermic (as is adding water to conc. acid - which is what you are doing when you add 30% H2O2, the other 70% is water...).

I am really perplexed what "explosive" compounds you are suggesting are being formed in mixing 3% H2O2 into 30% H2SO4?
Click to expand...


While I won't pretend to be a trained chemist, many others who read this forum aren't either.

Did you bother to read the safety protocols in place at major Universities for both use and disposal?

Many members here work with the concentrated to achieve the dilute. And many others seem to believe the notion that if "a little is good, more must be better".

It can melt plastics so several common reaction vessels and waste containers are unsuitable. Even your nitrile gloves may be insufficient to protect you. It can form explosive compounds with common solvents and can react violently with organics. Which may include your cotton clothing or even items found on circuit boards.

It's my opinion for safety reasons this combination should not be promoted on the forum.

http://www.mse.umd.edu/LAMP/Sop/Piranha_SOP.htm
 
i know that some poeple here have already tryed it and work with it...
im happy that you bring the danger part up front but i would also get the good side...
i already knows that h2so4 have a hard time disolving gold with "i think" will be nice for removing base metal without worrying
it doesnt apear to generate gaz as hcl do and rust everyting in sight
also i think it can be reuse more than hcl since hcl evaporate easily and if you electrolys it you also loose chlorine with make it rapidly weak...if im correct i can electrolys h2so4 and produce h2o2 witch would revive my solution(read it on a 2007 post )
if im wrong corret me
 
I wish you good luck in your experiments. Please do work carefully.

I have read many posts of really bad choices over time, and I hope it is helpful to know what not to do as well as what does work.
 
HCl + H2O2 is needed to "wound" the gold
by producing chlorine. Then the dissolution
of copper takes the place.
Lino1406
author of "25 recovery procedures"
 
correct me if im wrong but i dont think that true
no need to hurt the gold to get the copper in pins
also h2so4 to what i see right now do the same as hcl except it work very poorly, im force to keep adding h2o2 or the reaction stop,im tinking that i will try with 30%h2o2 to see if it react longer.
 
sulfuric acid reacts to copper better when it is warm.[CAUTION: be careful with hot sulfuric acid as it reacts to organics in a very aggressive manner, skin and bone is organic.] sulfuric acid will react to copper when hot regardless of H2O2. the more dilute the solution, the stronger the reaction to the copper, thats why we try to keep the sulfuric stripping cell cool and cover it when not in use to keep moisture out.
 
thank geo that is good to know.
i read that the boiling point of sulfuric acid is over 300deg,
to your knowledge ,right now im doing this in the house,by getting the solution hot will i end up with sulfuric gaz inside?
also getting cuso4 mean that i will have free hydrogene in the house ,those anyone know if the risk of explosion will be a serious treat for about 1 liter of dilute sulfuric?
thanks
 
Sounds like you are playing Russian Roulette with a 45 Auto :shock:

Get that stuff out of your house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_dioxide
The action of hot sulfuric acid on copper turnings produces sulfur dioxide.
Cu + 2 H2SO4 → CuSO4 + SO2 + 2 H2O

The sequential oxidation of sulfur dioxide followed by its hydration is used in the production of sulfuric acid.
2 SO2 + 2 H2O + O2 → 2 H2SO4
Click to expand...
Now when you or anyone else in the house breath these fumes you inhale SO2 it combines with the moisture (H2O) in your lungs creating new sulfuric acid (H2SO4) in your lungs. :shock:

Tom C.
 
ericrm said:
thank geo that is good to know.
i read that the boiling point of sulfuric acid is over 300deg,
to your knowledge ,right now im doing this in the house,by getting the solution hot will i end up with sulfuric gaz inside?
also getting cuso4 mean that i will have free hydrogene in the house ,those anyone know if the risk of explosion will be a serious treat for about 1 liter of dilute sulfuric?
thanks
Click to expand...

If you need to ask those questions, then you are playing with fire (in your house yet).
Maybe you should find another hobby.

Jim
 
{Water (steam) is not the only vapor given off by the boiling acid. Along with water, Sulfur Dioxide and Trioxide (SO2 and SO3) gasses also evolve from the boiling liquid. At low acid concentrations, water is the predominant vapor given off by the boiling acid; significantly more water vapor evolves from the boiling liquid than SOx gasses,}
so let gets me a bit more educated
will so2 and so3 will also be produce if i dont BOIL the acide but just keep it hot?or did a soon i get vapor it means to have also so2 and so3?
 
maybe i should correct something ,my work place is in the shed outside,but for the sulfuric experiment i was force to move in the house because the shed isnt heated(cold an acid dont work very well...)
 
qst42know said:
It can melt plastics so several common reaction vessels and waste containers are unsuitable. Even your nitrile gloves may be insufficient to protect you. It can form explosive compounds with common solvents and can react violently with organics. Which may include your cotton clothing or even items found on circuit boards.
Click to expand...

the one i wonder about is Nitre (potassium nitrate) and filter paper.

basically the definition for ... Guncotton. which comes in handy on the fourth of July !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

"Nitrocellulose (also: cellulose nitrate, flash paper) is a highly flammable compound formed by nitrating cellulose through exposure to nitric acid or another powerful nitrating agent."

I have been trying to come up with a filing system for filtered compounds. So I have put copper-rich mixes in their filter in a manila folder. so far i only have about five folders.

i am realizing that my filing system may not be so great on account of the fact that it could EXPLODE :shock:

Perhaps this is why people use glass jars ?
 

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