Why there's still people buying ebay guides ?

[goldsilverpro]

If I were a beginner and seriously wanted to earn a living doing this and had some extra money, I would buy every scrap of information I could find. I am saying this assuming that the forum exists and I have read everything on it. Knowledge is King in this business.

What you've seen on this forum, so far, is a drop in the bucket, even though it's, by far, the biggest and the best source of information on the net. This field is so vast that you'll never learn it all. If you buy any book from someone that has some sort of hands-on experience in this field, I guarantee that you'll learn something new. Everyone that does this stuff, does it differently. Who knows, some little tidbit you picked up may pay off 1000 fold, someday. Also, the more you mature in this field, the more you'll learn from any of these books, when you re-read them.

I've heard Megan Rose's name on forums for the last 5 or 6 years. It seems like 50% of the people love her and the other 50% hate her. I've seen her writing on forums and don't like her arrogance. If her books show the same arrogance, I would have trouble reading them. However, that doesn't mean her books aren't chock full of good information. I just don't know.

When talking about books, my son always says that there's always some good wheat among the tares. You just have to weed it out.

That's why people still buy books on Ebay. If I had a bunch of extra money, I would buy them also.

 

[jimdoc]

Cobraj,
Action mining sells a dvd on leaching with CLS.
It is worth the money. You should be able to build your
own equipment like they sell or Platinumills machine
on your own. It is just PVC, a pump, tanks with carbon
plates and a power supply or battery charger.
You can see pictures of Action Mining's System IV on their
website, the catalog is downloadable on pdf. They also have
smaller ones, one is just a five gallon bucket that you should
be able to make on your own also. Mike Glenn says on the dvd
that you can make your own, but they won't help you out with
plans or details. Jim

 

[lazersteve]

Whay about that 99 dollars shipping. lol

Ralph,

I felt bad telling people that didn't read the description they owed me another $99.99, plus when I let them off the hook, it cost me the other $1.04 for the auction post! So I got smart (or so I thought ) and added the actual cost of the auction up with paypal fees as the shipping. Well buyers still were skipping out on the shipping! Imagine that a 1 cent auction with a $1.04 shipping and you're too cheap to pay the shipping! I still can't figure out what makes some of the guys on ebay tick?! Lately I had two guys buy the auction, pay the penny, (skipped out on the shipping) and get banned from ebay the same day?! I wonder why? :lol: I think they were copy cat crooks trying to cash in on the same information. Who knows maybe they were both the same crook!

I'm done ranting and raving,

Sorry everyone... I feel better now


Steve

 

[jimdoc]

GSP,
The 50% that like her are probably like sheep following
her like she wants them to. You hit it on the head with
the word arrogance. The books are vague and yes there
is alot of good info, But worth the money? I don't think so.
They surely aren't as good as she pumps them up to be
in her Ebay ads. Her arrogance turned me off from any
further dealing with her. I would like to hear your opinion
on her books if you ever get the chance to read them.
Jim

 

[goldsilverpro]

Once. on the 49ermike.com forum, Megan said she had learned a lot from the George Gadja book, "Gold Refining." She really praised the book. It was like Gadja was her mentor. This really shocked me, since I (and Harold, also) think the Gadja book is the absolute worst book ever written on the subject. It's full of technical errors and, there's probably not a complete sentence in the whole book. It's still widely sold, though, even on IPMI??? Strange. When she said these things, I subconsciously put her in the category of the unknowledgeable. Until I read her material, she's still there.

She also got into an argument, recently, about pin sampling. In pin sampling, you insert a glass tube into molten metal and a vacuum sucks some metal into the tube. You break the glass away and are left with a metal "pin". You cut off portions of the pin to do assays. In the trade, it is a state of the art, accurate, method of sampling and, probably, 90% of all refiners use pin samples and have done so for about 25 or 30 years. Megan said that it sounded like a con and she had never heard of anyone using pin samples. She's supposed to be an expert.

 

[Cobraj]

Hi all,

LazerSteve, no worries bud the public at large is mostly good but it seems Ebay has a anal rate of 75%. I do some Ebay stuff just selling used things I no longer need or buying silver or other bars at a spot price. My brother is heavy in Ebay dealing mostly in auto parts and boy doe she have the stories! Anyway, don't lose sleep over the few slackers that didn't pay shipping. People like that reap what they sow.

Jimdoc, I will be sure to let you know how it was. Like I said though I'm a novice at this and I might think it is a book. What I was after was a complete package of the best way to do the business from start to finish. (small scale) Now Megan says in her sales pitch that she has the best way to do this. I need to see it all and do it all myself to see. I'm hoping this will give me a complete and working knowledge of what all is involved so I can test different technics myself. I hope to speak to you on other things and questions I might have later if you would.

My background is automotive related designing and mechanical work for a race team. I do some engineering type work on my team. I love to learn and have a complete understanding of what I'm doing. This is the reason I'm trying to get as much info as possible on this. I could very easily make a machine that does leaching with CLS. I just need to understand it. I'm assuming this book I'm getting will have this type of recovery process or similar. So far I haven't really seen much on the net, still searching!

 

[jimdoc]

Well she probably wrote her stuff in the style of the
Gadja book. She also mentions C.W Ammens book,
and that is a way better investment and cheaper than
her "books". Jim

 

[aflacglobal]

She also got into an argument, recently, about pin sampling. In pin sampling, you insert a glass tube into molten metal and a vacuum sucks some metal into the tube.

I think i remember this. Is that where they were emailing some guy at a refinery about it ? I remember all kind of flack over the subject.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Absolutely right, Ralph. I remember that someone called her on it. I may have gotten my 2 cents in also.

 

[blueduck]

Actually the process is a basic 190 degrees F with acids, rinsing with distilled water as far as i can gather..... if a person buys her cat book then they have to buy her plat book to get the formula, at around $300 total, toss in another 40 for the tire converted into a ball mill and a person is in for more than a penny to start.... but a person has to start somewhere......

Being a more of a i see it I can duplicate it kind of fella, this little booklet she writes leaves alot of things out that have to be researched and flipped back and forth to finally get a grasp in the manner it is written....

She does recommend roasting the ground catalyst and offers a cheap furnace to build in the booklet making up about a third to half the cat booklet. She also says not to grind the pellets but just roast them to get off the hydrocarbon build up [staying downwind is not a good idea and hopefully the neighbors wont mind the smell either..... [to combat this i hope to back out on an acreage in a few months.... the lawsuit i got involved in just lain did not allow me to do much in the way of funding the past coule years and we just get by for the most part]

I am not the most edumacated fell in the world, but being self taught in many things allows me the ability to grasp ideas and concepts easier than some, Ms Megan's booklets ive had for about 6 weeks or so and I have had to read them through several times to make things clear in my own mind and then, after all is said and done they are not complete in the fact there is no way offered to turn the Pt and Pd powder into metal except to pay her or some one else to do so and no explanation as to why a home workshop cannot put the powder back to solid [ok i suppose it has to do with the melting point of Pt is about 3150F (1773C)and Pd is a little higher]... and the home smelter may not be able to achieve that kind of heat readily [though my idea is to use browns gas from a homebuilt rudimentary H2 generator into a small gas foundry... film at eleven ;-O]

The best advice i have read so far and it is repeated in many threads on this forum is to purchase C M Hoke's book Refining Precious Metal Wastes, cause evidently the answers lay in that book to many questions.... so i am am saving for a purchase of such a book if from nowhere else at least from Action Mining, they were kind enough to send me a catalog when i called them.... and Megan had the folks at www.minerox.com send me their catalog as they are even closer being about an hour away in Riggins Idaho.... and they suggest that i can purchase most of the needed chemicals though the fertilizer company about 25 miles away or even at the local feed store and not get to far off of the mark for what she recommends using.... anyway i hope there is a way to drop Rh out of the catalyst instead of sending that off to a refiner as she suggests doing in the booklet... maybe there is not. The hype was not what got me to purchase the booklets, but rather the price of the PGM's making it appear that a person can recover the metals and make a fairly good profit margin doing so as a hobby..... though time will tell if her $2000.00 from 6 cats is accurate or not..... treating the monolith as an ore body may be exactly what is needed though, and the missing link in most of the information available elsewhere.

I am also interested in getting the gold metal out of tellurides which are quite common in the streams and rivers around the Central Idaho area, commonly mistaken as metallic magnetic black sands.... but are heavier.

William

 

[jimdoc]

William,
Do you know what the test crystals in Megan Rose's kit
are? She just calls them test bags #1,2,3. I know #1 is
salt to test for silver. #2 she calls COTP nitric acid substitute,
says it is safer and cheaper than nitric, and can be sent
in the mail, but she never says what it is-only that you can
always buy it from her. She says use a teaspoon full and she
doesn't even send you that much in the bag. Bag #3 is some
kind of prills, never figured that one out either. Jim

 

[aflacglobal]

$2000.00 from 6 cats

Considering i bought a new one about 2 years ago for $ 235 Give or take for the average i guess. That would be about $ 1400 dollars for 6 of them. Now how the hell am i going to get $ 2000.00 in preciuos metals from this. :lol:

Did you read the thread link i posted above ? This is from an actual full scale refinery of converters. Note the problems and processes the large scale way.

Rose ? Now i remember that goofy Name and now i remember where from.
I have run across her in my research ventures on and off. I think i put her right beside that shor thingy ma giggy on the top shelf beside the
plywood stretcher and right next to the sky hook. :shock:

Yep !!! Right where i left it.

 

[Cobraj]

Hi all,

Amounts of PT metals vary allot. If you bought an aftermarket CAT for your car (which that price sounds right) what you replaced your OEM CAT with is a converter that has almost half of the PT metals in it. OEM CATs are tested to pass with certain levels of emissions, aftermarkets are not as high of quality converter with less PTs. Aftermarket CATs are only tested out of the box not like an OEM CAT where they have to last 60,000 and some now 80,000 or the dealer needs to replace them at no charge!

I have examples of values I'm building in regards to PT metals in each CAT by date and manufacture. Like I said it varies alot from a GM, Ford, European, or Japanese vehicles. Aftermarkets have the least, then Ford, then Chevy, then Chrysler, then European, then Japanese. Then these also vary in size.

I have had emails from refiners saying what the average payout is to a customer for 1000lbs of honeycomb material they process. Paying only for Platinum and Palladium one said “The spread is huge. Worth $15 to 80 a pound.” One other said, “We pay between $18,000. and $80,000 for 1000lbs of honeycomb.” This varied price is due to the type and make of the converter like I said above. If you have mostly aftermarket converters then you’re going to get less money out of it. If you have mostly European and Japanese converters then you would be in the higher payment area.

Not all converters are alike or even close, some have more elements then others it all depended on what the manufacture had to put in them to get then to pass the test. European V-6 or V-8 will have the most PTs of all the converters.

 

[aflacglobal]

Yeah i understand all your saying. No problem there.

I just want Her to pull 6 cats and show me $ 2,000 in metals.

Money yes, That much, No.

I just don't believe it.

 

[blueduck]

First Aflac

yeppers thats right she claims $2000 per 6 of the cats in her different ads and in some emails she sent my way...... and yes i read the amounts you posted which i suspect are correct..... and i have no way of knowing personally how much i can come up with in this venture yet, as ive been reading, and trying to beat the heat wave we had here the past few weeks by being up at night or early in the morning, and not trying to fall asleep with the 3 kids during the day..... so since i aint getting to bed til 1-3 am and i sleep in til 6-7 am i aint getting that early morning start right now.

Jim

From what i gather the "COPT" or crystal oxidizing testing protocol is the "purple prills" and is potassium permanganate KMnO4 which used to be formulated 20% stronger and she says that to each pound or 454g one needs to add 113g of KNO3 [saltpeter bought at the drugstore] to get it back up to strength and according to the booklet this is due to a recent court ruling that made the KMnO4 no longer able to be listed being for "personal use" under the Hazardous substances act, that it is now listed as a "non-personal use oxidizer. [probably becsuse of the the fact it is used in some very interesting formulas for things that go boom in the night or day providing "fireworks" for those who know what to mix it with.

now after reading again the descriptions in the booklet i get mixed information the way it is written, and cannot answer the question of what the 3rd bag is.... this is why i was disappointed, not for bad information, but for vague information...... and the intermixed jumping here and there and back again from testing to antidote to testing to scaling up to testing... using AR and not using AR, calling muriatic acid swimming pool additive and not HCL..... I spect that if I am thins confused maybe others are as well.... but like i said after reading various posts on this forum i have come to the conclusion that I can get it done, just maybe not in the same manner as is written in the booklet.... but I am willing to give the booklet method a fair try and trial.


William
Central Idaho

 

[jimdoc]

William,
That is the problem with her info with me also-vague.
I commented to her about not being really clear with
her info in the book, and she had a comment that
started with "you men" and seemed kind of belittling.
If I was an expert I wouldn't have to buy her info, and
she seems to waste half of the pages in her "books" on
info that the reader could do without (goofy comments).
Thanks for the COTP info, her book has no mention of
what any of her samples are, that was my biggest problem
with her selling information, and leaving the reader having
to guess, especially about chemicals.

My guess on the 6 converters being $2000 worth of metal,
she must be talking about the very best BMW cats that buyers
are paying $225 each. That would be $1350 sold without even
processing, so I can see those bringing $2000 worth of metal,
problem is try finding 6 of those converters to process. You are
going to come across a bunch of lower end converters, and those
are what these people should be giving you an idea of what you
will be getting from them, not ones you probably won't find.
Jim

 

[blueduck]

Jim

Ok and now reading in another part of the booklet she states using DMG or dimethylglyoxime CH3C(NOH)C(NOH)CH3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylglyoxime will drop Pd......

But nowhere, and this is the biggest frustration in both the cat and tha plat book for me, can i find a resource readily for such powder.... in the cat booklet she says to do google search to find a huge crucible to roast the monolith in, now I have been around the internet block a few times, and used to be able to find things others were having trouble finding and find multiple itmes or information on unique subjects, but for the life of me i just cannot find the #12 2400 cc capacity crucible 8 1/8 h x 7 1/8, 5 1/6 od ive have searched and tried but no where can i can such a monkey on the net..... and i know someone out there has to still make the big ones......

Another thing i just noticed is that she shows pictures of her "furnace" using a GALVANIZED milk bucket [ok i grew up on a farm and admit i know first hand how to pull teats and get fresh milk] but does not mention that the more than 1100 degrees she is trying to get the thing up to temperature at will burn the galvanization off and if a person is anywhere near those fumes it is harmful to the lungs, and can hospitalize or even snuff a life of a person, not just a laboratory rat.... and i realize that common sense is suppose to kick in around things like that, but i have met far to many folks who just did not think about the things cause they seen it a picture and nothing was written converse to the subject.....

I don't need to be spoon fed information, but the jumping around and having to re-read something to try and follow procedure has my brain on overload. Coupled with trying to study with my three kids under foot [not a bad thing either, but i have to devote attention to them or they are in to everything not under lock and key] I just end up setting the booklet down and starting over..... I dont have a chemistry background, though i had it in highschool 30 years back [i thought i was gonna try to be a veterinarian until the laws of banking hit me square in the farm] and i have been around various chemicals over the years just not in a lab. Ive been around a few miners who used some different methods to extract gold from their ore too, but alas, like the winds they have passed on and are no longer around to pick their brains [maybe i ought to get a set of younger friends but they tend not to know a thing i want to learn about].

William

 

[Harold_V]

Jim

Ok and now reading in another part of the booklet she states using DMG or dimethylglyoxime CH3C(NOH)C(NOH)CH3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylglyoxime will drop Pd......

Pardon my jumping in here, but using DMG for precipitation is insane.

Yes, it works, and quite well, but it's not cheap, and it's not convenient. The precipitate is hugely voluminous and difficult to handle. Converting to elemental palladium isn't an issue, it's easy enough to calcine the deep yellow pasty powder that results, it's just that there's so damned much of the stuff. I recommend you use DMG for testing, not recovery.

do google search to find a huge crucible to roast the monolith in, now I have been around the internet block a few times, and used to be able to find things others were having trouble finding and find multiple itmes or information on unique subjects, but for the life of me i just cannot find the #12 2400 cc capacity crucible 8 1/8 h x 7 1/8, 5 1/6 od ive have searched and tried but no where can i can such a monkey on the net..... and i know someone out there has to still make the big ones......

Chuckle!! :lol:

Big ones? That crucible, in the scheme of things, is small. Size isn't your problem. Where you're looking is. You should be looking at foundry supply sources, which is where crucibles are commonly sold. They're made huge in size, at least up to a #400-----probably larger.

Harold

 

[jimdoc]

William,
I am glad to see I am not the only one frustrated with
her books. I found crucibles on Ebay, but that was a
few years ago after I bought her books. You need to look
into metal casting supplies to get bigger ones.
Have you ever checked out backyardmetalcasting;

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

there is alot of cool info on that site.

She used to tell you where you could buy the crucibles
but you had to buy a case of either 6 or 8. I guess she
didn't make any money on them so she leaves you to
google search for them now.

Harold is right about the DMG, he is the man to listen to
when he speaks, for you will learn. I found DMG on Ebay but
haven't seen any on there lately. You should only use it
for testing, and use sodium chlorate for recovery. Action Mining
seems to have the best price for that, they have DMG also,
but like Harold said it is expensive. You should only need
a little bit for testing, it is good to have it when dealing with
palladium. Jim

 

[blueduck]

Pardon my jumping in here, but using DMG for precipitation is insane.

.......

by all means jump!!! I am merely a student [ok an old dog learning new trix] I have limited funds for learning, and am trying to figure out what just exactly is the best way to do things without going any farther overboard than I may have already gone...... Cause i believe a small scale operation can be worth while as more than a hobby for a person like myself who has nearly always been self educated and self employed..... and i dont like the motto "we do it right cause we do it twice".

after joining this forum and reading and beginning to learn again, I have considered going back to school to study metallurgy at the U of Idaho, but i have not figured out the reason why, or what i would do with such a degree at the age i would be when getting it..... [motivation i guess] besides they dont do the things i want to learn until the first part of year 4, maybe the last part of year 3..... so ive pretty much talked myself out of that for now and stayed the course of learning what i want on my own.....

As for foundry crucibles, such ought to come up in a search I would think if a person was looking with the right parameters but I guess whatever i put in just dont match much out there.... I found one place, budget casting supply that has a similar size to what i would like for what i am building.... but there ought to be more than one..... I will keep trying.

Thanks guys, for more than this thread!

William