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I've done a lot of searching and that is the best I've come up with so far.

I have been making my own Nitric with concentrated battery acid using Lazer Steve's excellent directions. It's just a bit of a hassle to boil down the Sulphuric. It comes down to trying to figure out how valuable my time is.

There's no hurry to make a decision so I'll keep looking and, if I find a cheaper source, I'll post it here. I know that several of our members are also from Ohio so maybe I can help.

Thanks for the quick response!
 
Mike,
Maybe you can locate some 98% sulfuric acid cheaper than 70% nitric. This would save you having to boil anything down.

Steve
 
As usual, a very good suggestion. I already have plenty of Sodium Nitrate.

Their website lists Sulfuric Acid anywhere from ".02N to 18N". I remember reading somewhere on the forum that the "N" stands for normal. Not being a chemist I'm not sure how the "N" number relates to percent or strength.
 
Concentrated sulfuric acid (about 98%, by weight) is about 36.8N. The Molarity is about 18.4 and the Normality is about 36.8. The 18N, then, is only about 49%, by weight.

In a feeble attempt to put this simply.

Mole (or, Mol), Molar, Molarity
If you get an atomic weight chart and look up the atomic weights of all the elements in a chemical's formula, and add them all together, you will have the weight, in grams, of one Mole of that chemical. In the case of sulfuric acid, H2SO4, there are 2 hydrogen atoms, 1 sulfur atom, and 4 oxygen atoms. The atomic weight of hydrogen is 1.008, sulfur is 32.06, and oxygen is 16. Therefore, the weight of 1 Mole of H2SO4 is:
(1.008 x 2) + (32.06 x 1) + (16 x 4) = 98.076 grams

The Molarity is the number of Moles in 1 liter of solution.

Therefore, a 1 Molar solution of H2SO4 would contain 98.076 grams of H2SO4 in 1 liter of solution.

Concentrated sulfuric is about 18.4 Molar. In other words, one liter of concentrated sulfuric contains about 18.4 x 98.076 = 1,805 grams of H2SO4

Normal, Normality
I won't go into the strict definition of Normality, except to say that, since H2SO4 contains 2 hydrogen atoms (H2), its Normality is twice its Molarity. Since nitric acid, HNO3, and hydrochloric acid, HCl, both only have 1 hydrogen atom, their Molarities are equal to their Normalities. Therefore, a 1 Normal solution of H2SO4 will only contain 1/2 Mole of H2SO4 (98.076/2 = 49.038 grams) per liter.

When you neutralize sodium hydroxide, NaOH, with an acid, the H from the acid combines with the OH of the sodium hydroxide, to form water, H2O. If you use, for example, HCl, it will take 1 Mole of HCl (36.461 grams) to neutralize 1 Mole of NaOH (40.00 grams). However, since H2SO4 has 2 hydrogens, 1 Mole of H2SO4 will neutralize 2 Moles of NaOH. All this has to do with what is called Normality.

Therefore, 1 liter of 98% concentrated 18.4 Molar H2SO4 will neutralize 18.4 x 2 Moles, or 36.8 Moles of NaOH = 36.8 x 40.00 = 1,472 grams

Confused? I surely could have done this better.
 
goldsilverpro said:
Concentrated sulfuric acid (about 98%, by weight) is about 36.8N. The Molarity is about 18.4 and the Normality is about 36.8. The 18N, then, is only about 49%, by weight.

In a feeble attempt to put this simply.

Mole (or, Mol), Molar, Molarity
If you get an atomic weight chart and look up the atomic weights of all the elements in a chemical's formula, and add them all together, you will have the weight, in grams, of one Mole of that chemical. In the case of sulfuric acid, H2SO4, there are 2 hydrogen atoms, 1 sulfur atom, and 4 oxygen atoms. The atomic weight of hydrogen is 1.008, sulfur is 32.06, and oxygen is 16. Therefore, the weight of 1 Mole of H2SO4 is:
(1.008 x 2) + (32.06 x 1) + (16 x 4) = 98.076 grams

The Molarity is the number of Moles in 1 liter of solution.

Therefore, a 1 Molar solution of H2SO4 would contain 98.076 grams of H2SO4 in 1 liter of solution.

Concentrated sulfuric is about 18.4 Molar. In other words, one liter of concentrated sulfuric contains about 18.4 x 98.076 = 1,805 grams of H2SO4

Normal, Normality
I won't go into the strict definition of Normality, except to say that, since H2SO4 contains 2 hydrogen atoms (H2), its Normality is twice its Molarity. Since nitric acid, HNO3, and hydrochloric acid, HCl, both only have 1 hydrogen atom, their Molarities are equal to their Normalities. Therefore, a 1 Normal solution of H2SO4 will only contain 1/2 Mole of H2SO4 (98.076/2 = 49.038 grams) per liter.

When you neutralize sodium hydroxide, NaOH, with an acid, the H from the acid combines with the OH of the sodium hydroxide, to form water, H2O. If you use, for example, HCl, it will take 1 Mole of HCl (36.461 grams) to neutralize 1 Mole of NaOH (40.00 grams). However, since H2SO4 has 2 hydrogens, 1 Mole of H2SO4 will neutralize 2 Moles of NaOH. All this has to do with what is called Normality.

Therefore, 1 liter of 98% concentrated 18.4 Molar H2SO4 will neutralize 18.4 x 2 Moles, or 36.8 Moles of NaOH = 36.8 x 40.00 = 1,472 grams

Confused? I surely could have done this better.


All that money spent and all I get are worthless salts. :mrgreen:

Buy once, pay twice. Pay to dissolve it, pay to neutralize.

It's money out of your pocket. Don't waste chemicals.

Good explanation, Chris.
 
Chris, thanks for the explanation. It's been 34 years since my last High School Chemistry class and I was still able to understand you. I am constantly amazed at the wealth of knowledge on this forum and the generosity of those who are willing to give it so freely.
 
Steve,
For us Noobs out there, can you please simplify it for us?
Can you give us a list of chemicals we need to go from start to finish (processing e-scraps)
Also, if it is cheaper to make our chemicals, can you include these too?
Thanks
 
eaglewings35 said:
Steve,
For us Noobs out there, can you please simplify it for us?
Can you give us a list of chemicals we need to go from start to finish (processing e-scraps)
Also, if it is cheaper to make our chemicals, can you include these too?
Thanks

That information is here on the forum. You just need to find out what you want to process and do a serch and start reading. And find a copy of Hokes to download and read. It will get you a long way.
 
eaglewings35 said:
Steve,
For us Noobs out there, can you please simplify it for us?
Can you give us a list of chemicals we need to go from start to finish (processing e-scraps)
Also, if it is cheaper to make our chemicals, can you include these too?
Thanks

I hope Steve doesn't mind if I answer this. I would imagine he would give a similar answer.

Steve has already done all of what you ask. At the bottom of all of his posts, it says, Guided Tour Link. Clicking on this brings you here. Read all on the links that are given.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

On that page, the Reactions List link brings you here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=562

And, the Forum Guide Rough Draft link brings you here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=5604

Everything you want or need to know about processing e-scrap (or, about anything else) can be found in these links. Anything not in these links can easily be searched for. It's all there, somewhere. Once you get a basic knowledge of things, ask specific questions and they will be answered. At this point, your questions are way too broad and would literally take hours to give a proper answer. To succeed in this, you must do a lot of reading and studying on your own.

Go to Steve's website and watch all of the excellent videos he has made. At the bottom of this first page, it gives you the username and password needed to login:
http://www.goldrecovery.us/

Also, it is recommended that all new members download and read Refining Precious Metals Wastes by C.M. Hoke. It doesn't involve e-scrap but it will give you the best background possible on the handling and usage of chemicals and their reactions on the various precious and base metals. It's also very easy and enjoyable reading.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=2480

Chris
 
GSP,

Maybe we should require everyone to read your post above before entering.

Great Post!

Steve
 
here are a few suppliers around US:
http://www.gsrobins.com/products/product_list.html look under locations to see if there is a close one to you

http://www.brenntagmidsouth.com/ also click on company profile then locations. they have alot of locations. they sell a minimum order of $200 and i got quoted 15 gallons of nitric acid for $105 that also includes the $20 drum fee
all the above sites sell every chemical possible. i think
 
Anyone looking for Sodium Nitrate or Nitric 70% lab grade here is where I get it and they will ship to anyone with no waiver forms etc., (as far as I know)...I had no trouble at all.....http://www.chemical-supermarket.com (DGR Industrial products) Hope this helps.....they actually state they will ship to anyone.
Mingo
 
Mingo said:
Anyone looking for Sodium Nitrate or Nitric 70% lab grade here is where I get it and they will ship to anyone with no waiver forms etc., (as far as I know)...I had no trouble at all.....http://www.chemical-supermarket.com (DGR Industrial products) Hope this helps.....they actually state they will ship to anyone.
Mingo

Are you paying $39.95 for 500ml of nitric? If you are you're better off going here http://abprospecting.com/ 37.95 for 2.5 liters.
 
If anyone is interested, I just ordered 4 Lbs of KNO3 without anti-cake for $3.50/Lb. from American Pyrotechnic supply. No problem whatsoever.....just don't try to order an oxydizer along with ANY powdered Aluminum. This is Tech grade and should be great for producing my own Nitric.....325 mesh powder......if my thoughts on this are wrong, please advise.....I've always used NaO3, but Potassium should be OK.
Relevant thread is within this topic post.
-Mingo-
 
Only if they give you a free jar of vaseline with it.... 8)

Find a pool supply store if you can or hardware store. My current price is $24-26 for 4 gal.
 
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