Renstilskens wacky questions.

[butcher]

Renstilsken,
Study and when you run into something you do not understand or need help with a problem anyone one here will be glad to help.
Gaining some education on the subjects will also help you get more from any question, you will be able to ask educated questions.

Respect and no nonsense and you will go a long way here.

The members here you will find are very helpful and the kinds of friend most everyone wants.
I wish to welcome you here. Hopefully, we can put all of this behind us and learn more about precious metal recovery and refining, and work together as friends.

Check out:
Dealing with waste (very important and the rest of the safety threads.
Hoke's book. I suggest before doing any chemistry do the getting acquainted experiments in her book (they will save you many headaches and give answers to a thousand questions you may have in this field.
The general reaction list.
Guide to the forum (this will take you on and educational road trip).
The many documents provided by members.
Forum search and google search...
Laser Steves web-site
Harold's getting gold pure and shining

You have a true treasure chest at your disposal enjoy the journey.

 

[Renstilsken]

This is very helpful. Thanks for the info..I already started . recovery of that 10pd. Batch of silver last night. That I had sitting in nitric acid solution. After reading that section in hoke's book...I am using pure copper for a stock feed. Where I live at people throw away silver like crazy. Eventually I would like to make my own acids from stratch. I just bought a distillation, and Buckner funnel them set on eBay. Can't wait to get it. Gonna make my own nitric acid...

 

[galenrog]

I have a silly question. The silverware you have dissolved, was it a silver alloy, such as Sterling, or was it silver plated? My stroke twisted brain wants to know.

 

[Renstilsken]

Sterling silver ware..such as forks ,knives ,spoons. It looked expensive..got it at an estate sale. I keep the silver plated low end stuff in a separate garbage can..that is why I asked before if I should just recover it with muriatic acid first .and then redo it with with nitric acid and a copper feed stock ..for a purer outcome. I think I should have done the second.only thinking out loud..

 

[Palladium]

Sometimes the teachers job is to protect the student from himself even though the student might not know or understand why. I do have a question though. Do you have any experience or education in the field of chemistry? The reason i ask is you are talking about making your own nitric acid. Refining is dangerous enough for me and even with my years of experience i know better than to attempt certain things. One of them being cyanide and the other being making or distilling nitric acid. The consequences verses cost for a commercially available product doesn't justify it.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Sterling silver ware..such as forks ,knives ,spoons. It looked expensive..got it at an estate sale.

The forks and spoons will be solid sterling silver. The knives usually have stainless steel blades and the handles are filled with a plaster/resin/cement type material. Break the handles open and remove the filler material and blades before dissolving them.

..that is why I asked before if I should just recover it with muriatic acid first .and then redo it with with nitric acid and a copper feed stock ..for a purer outcome.

If you use muriatic to recover the silver from the nitrate solution, you'll create silver chloride. You can not redissolve silver chloride in nitric acid. There are several ways to convert silver chloride to elemental silver. Many people use the lye and Karo syrup method. Lou recommends sulfuric acid and nails, and I know better than to question his expertise. Or you can just cement the silver using copper.

Dave

 

[Renstilsken]

Um they all seemed solid .their were no external handles on any of . it was all shiny . and it had sterling a stamp on it. Well I did build a fume hood in my garage. I have installed them for my job. When we built thier chemical labs for n.y.u. and montifore. We built 40 labs for n.y.u. and 120 labs for montifore hospital. I know as long as my fume hood stays in negative pressure or vacuum I should be good . plus I keep my garage in positive pressure with fans. Told you I have been building me a lab for the last two months.

 

[galenrog]

Thank you for answering the question regarding silverware. The reason I asked is that many people new to recovery and refining, regardless of education and expertise elsewhere, frequently do not know the difference.

Dave is completely correct on his comment above. Sterling knives, and other bladed pieces, have stainless steel blades and filled handles. This is the case in nearly all sterling tableware.

I have no experience recovering silver from plated items, so I will not comment further on that.

Hope your journey here is fruitful

Time for more coffee

 

[Renstilsken]

But I will not be attempting todo that right now. Because I am not ready too.. And I don't think I know enough yet to try it but eventually I will.. Plus's their is still more stuff I need to add to the lab.still saving up for hot plates and electric klin. Very expensive these items are..so are the nitric acid .

 

[upcyclist]

..that is why I asked before if I should just recover it with muriatic acid first .and then redo it with with nitric acid and a copper feed stock ..for a purer outcome.

If you use muriatic to recover the silver from the nitrate solution, you'll create silver chloride. You can not redissolve silver chloride in nitric acid. There are several ways to convert silver chloride to elemental silver. Many people use the lye and Karo syrup method. Lou recommends sulfuric acid and nails, and I know better than to question his expertise. Or you can just cement the silver using copper.

As an example, I used to precipitate my silver as AgCl, then convert it to silver using sulfuric & nails, but I find that to be a pain. So now, I'm just cementing it on copper. When I need silver for inquartation (see Hoke), I can use the cemented silver. Before I actually sell any as Fine Silver (or use it to make Sterling alloy shot for my jewelry casting), I'll start up a silver cell and purify it that way.

--Eric

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

But I will not be attempting todo that right now. Because I am not ready too.. And I don't think I know enough yet to try it but eventually I will.. Plus's their is still more stuff I need to add to the lab.still saving up for hot plates and electric klin. Very expensive these items are..so are the nitric acid .

Hot plates arent too bad, go to walmart or your local equivalent, and get a dual hot plate with ceramic burners, 30 bucks (or so) and it will do fine if you have a piece of pyroceram between the burner and reaction vessel. So far mine has lasted 8 months + now, with only one small hiccup, and it fixed itself.

Electric kiln, yes, expensive. But, gsp and Harold both say they are essentially useless for refining. A good torch will serve you well, for incinerating, and melting. And will get to temperature significantly faster.

Nitric acid...oh yes, very expensive. I was paying 75 bucks for 500 mL... Me and another local member just split a 10L order from dudadiesel for $228, which is significantly cheaper than buying it local... Still not as cheap as some members get it, but, i dont need a 55 gallon drum of it....yet

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Um they all seemed solid .their were no external handles on any of . it was all shiny . and it had sterling a stamp on it.

There are two different types of knives. The larger ones, often referred to as "place knives", almost always have stainless steel (or, occasionally, silver plated) blades. The handles are fairly thick and rounded in profile, providing a comfortable fit in the hand. These handles feel solid because they are filled with something, as I described above. They're actually made of two pieces of thin sterling sheet that has been stamped into shape. The two halves are soldered together, then filled with the plaster/cement/resin, the blade is inserted, and the filling is allowed to cool/cure/harden. Give one a few good whacks with a hammer, and they will usually split apart at the solder joint. These same "hollow handles" are often used with some serving pieces like salad sets, cake knives, cake splitters, etc.

The other type is usually called a flat handled butter knife. They are shorter, the handles are relatively flat (still stamped with a pattern like the forks and spoons), and they are made for putting butter on bread or a roll, etc. These are usually solid sterling silver. There are also "butter knives" that have hollow handles like the larger place knives described above. Once you've dealt with enough of this stuff, the difference is obvious.

Well I did build a fume hood in my garage. I have installed them for my job.

No matter how good a fume hood you have, I would never recommend processing in your garage.

One of the things Hoke teaches is that it's always a good practice, when trying new material, to start with a small, test batch. It's a lot easier to figure things out when you're dealing with a few ounces of metal than to start with ten pounds. Start small. Gain some experience and perfect your process. Then you can scale up to larger batches.

Dave

 

[Renstilsken]

But it is also hard for me to get nitric acid b/c . Chemical companies in the us won't sell to non company or residential addresses .. So I have to import it from out of the country. And the wait five weeks for it . While it sits in customs. So a bottle that would normally run me 45 bucks . Cost me 80 bucks. And why not in a garage with fume hood .. That is exhausted out of roof..? Or should it be done just out side period?

 

[Renstilsken]

Oo..yeah I was doing smaller batches of lb. but I felt like I was losing out .. So this is the first time I tried such a big batch.. Think I messed up.. On my way! . Home now to see what it looks like..

 

[goldsilverpro]

But it is also hard for me to get nitric acid b/c . Chemical companies in the us won't sell to non company or residential addresses .. So I have to import it from out of the country. And the wait five weeks for it . While it sits in customs. So a bottle that would normally run me 45 bucks . Cost me 80 bucks. And why not in a garage with fume hood .. That is exhausted out of roof..? Or should it be done just out side period?

Any one in the US can buy nitric. Tell us where you're located and some members might point you in the right direction. Small quantities are dramatically overpriced. It's a lot cheaper if it''s close enough to pick it up yourself. Usually the cheapest is 67% technical grade that they've repackaged into smaller containers. A 55 gallon drum of 67% nitric cost about $5 per gallon but you have to be a business. From this, you can see badly those re-packagers rape you. Whatever, don't buy very pure reagent grade. It's waaay expensive and you don't need it.

 

[nickvc]

The reason we are concerned about using your garage is the fumes will attack everything inside it including your car and tools unless you run your extraction 24/7 with good clean air been allowed in to help evacuate the fumes, if your garage is attached to the house it will also suffer acid damage.

 

[Renstilsken]

Sorry I was away for the weekend I took a look around but didn't see anything .. But for now on I will do it out side just in case .. Thanks for the info .. I will keep an eye out for anything. But my structure is made of wood.

 

[Renstilsken]

And that silver batch is a big bucket of blob..gotta figure that out Monday..see I knew it . They were getting me.. Well I do need a local supplier.. I live in New York State. In westchester, next to New York City. Though I was looking for I couldn't find one . And help in finding a local chemical provider would be great . .

 

[Renstilsken]

These kilns are expensive ..to do the metal melting in.. Does anyone have a used one or extra one they wanna sell. I will pay ..I have pay pal..

 

[butcher]

Wood full of nitric fumes = fire or worse.

Even the acid fumes you do not see, or may not detect, can ruin most any tool in your shop or garage.

Work outside unless you have proper fume control, and safety practices in place.
These dangers are not limited to only your tools.
Your health is put in danger with improper safety precautions.
You can easily kill or damage your health and the health of others around you.

This is why we stress anyone doing this should study first, the dangers you do not even know are there, can kill you, or poison your environment. The dangers you are aware of can be minimized with a good education and safe practices.

The safety thread, and dealing with waste is a great place to begin your study's, it will help you to protect yourself and others from many of the dangers, it can also save you money in many different ways. It will also help you to deal with the government authority's when they come knocking on your door wanting to know what dangerous chemicals you have been making and what you are doing with them...

Do not let gold fever, take over your common sense, spend time with educating yourself, before jumping off into dumping acids onto metals and making very dangerous chemical reactions that you do not know what the dangers consist of.

Take this serious it is not anything to be playing around with, inorganic chemistry can be very dangerous business, without being educated.

If you really need a furnace you can build them fairly easily. But for most things a furnace is not what you will need, a torch and melting dishes will do most of what you will need to do.