Should I come clean with the police?
- Thread starter AztekShine
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Beirdo
Well-known member
glondor said:
This is simply not true. I happen to work in that field in the day job, and to the contrary, we only record calls if the customer requests it, or if there is a specific court order dictating it. Now, what Microsoft does, I dunno, but I highly doubt they do it either.
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
I was concerned about laws that affect Cellular Phones, when the Bush Administration was calling the shots, but I am far more concerned about what the Obama administration has done, and is trying to do, since his administration has been in power. Have you read any of the Patriot Acts that have been renewed under Obama's administration? Currently, cell phone records are kept for several years, under the new laws, and can be disclosed without warrant at the request of certain government agencies. It's not stored at the tower, it's stored in server farms. Searchable databases. With little or no effort involved at all.
It doesn't matter who is in power, who is President or Vice President, or any other appointed or elected office. Simple fact of the matter is this. Every year American's have had more of our rights and freedoms taken away. There has never been one year, since the 80s, that we have not had any of our rights taken away. Think about this, anytime a law is passed, we are not given a right, a right or a freedom is taken away. We elect "law makers" who's job is to create new laws.
Benjamen Franklin said “Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” unfortunately we are not giving our freedoms up, they are being stripped from us on a regular basis.
If I were to be concerned about my activities, I wouldn't use cell phones, but I also wouldn't be posting on any forum, emailing anyone anywhere at anytime, all of these things retain information, sometimes required by law sometimes just in the natural architecture of computer systems, sometimes on a hard drive that was sold as scrap to someone in an unfriendly country. Here is one for you, ask yourself why people are willing to spend $100 for 100 sim cards removed from cell phones. Hope on eBay and see what I mean. They take the sim cards and grab the information off the card, many times there is not only personal information but your entire internet history, text messages, pictures, credit card numbers, etc.
Scott
It doesn't matter who is in power, who is President or Vice President, or any other appointed or elected office. Simple fact of the matter is this. Every year American's have had more of our rights and freedoms taken away. There has never been one year, since the 80s, that we have not had any of our rights taken away. Think about this, anytime a law is passed, we are not given a right, a right or a freedom is taken away. We elect "law makers" who's job is to create new laws.
Benjamen Franklin said “Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” unfortunately we are not giving our freedoms up, they are being stripped from us on a regular basis.
If I were to be concerned about my activities, I wouldn't use cell phones, but I also wouldn't be posting on any forum, emailing anyone anywhere at anytime, all of these things retain information, sometimes required by law sometimes just in the natural architecture of computer systems, sometimes on a hard drive that was sold as scrap to someone in an unfriendly country. Here is one for you, ask yourself why people are willing to spend $100 for 100 sim cards removed from cell phones. Hope on eBay and see what I mean. They take the sim cards and grab the information off the card, many times there is not only personal information but your entire internet history, text messages, pictures, credit card numbers, etc.
Scott
http://news.techworld.com/security/3288520/microsoft-could-intercept-and-record-skype-calls-say-privacy-advocates/
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Midmarket/Microsoft-Patent-Will-Allow-Federal-Eavesdropping-on-VOIP-Services-Skype-748556/
http://www.conceivablytech.com/8108/products/microsoft-may-add-eavesdropping-to-skype
The patent clearly addresses the need of governments and law enforcement to record Internet calls. There is also a certain sense that especially closed networks are targeted with this technology, yet the clear notion that VoIP applications targeted by this patent “may include audio messages transmitted via gaming systems, instant messaging protocols that transmit audio, Skype and Skype-like applications, meeting software, video conferencing software, and the like” may raise privacy concerns and surely the question of how Microsoft intends to use such a patent now that it owns Skype.
So, Microsoft: Will Skype officially include eavesdropping capability in the future?
A request for clarification we sent to Microsoft has remained unanswered so far.
Update: There have been some questions what Microsoft may gain from such a technology and why it is doing this on its own, without a government request. Some may remember that the U.S. government has actually asked for such a capability a while ago and is offering a boatload of money for this feature – the Register was talking about “billions.” The cost for Skype may not have been so high after all.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Midmarket/Microsoft-Patent-Will-Allow-Federal-Eavesdropping-on-VOIP-Services-Skype-748556/
http://www.conceivablytech.com/8108/products/microsoft-may-add-eavesdropping-to-skype
The patent clearly addresses the need of governments and law enforcement to record Internet calls. There is also a certain sense that especially closed networks are targeted with this technology, yet the clear notion that VoIP applications targeted by this patent “may include audio messages transmitted via gaming systems, instant messaging protocols that transmit audio, Skype and Skype-like applications, meeting software, video conferencing software, and the like” may raise privacy concerns and surely the question of how Microsoft intends to use such a patent now that it owns Skype.
So, Microsoft: Will Skype officially include eavesdropping capability in the future?
A request for clarification we sent to Microsoft has remained unanswered so far.
Update: There have been some questions what Microsoft may gain from such a technology and why it is doing this on its own, without a government request. Some may remember that the U.S. government has actually asked for such a capability a while ago and is offering a boatload of money for this feature – the Register was talking about “billions.” The cost for Skype may not have been so high after all.
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
If you communicate it (writing, talking, using code) there is a potential for someone else to hear it, record it, use it against you in some way.
Not to be paranoid, but I think the old saying it's better to keep your mouth shut and have people wonder, than to open it and remove all doubt seems fitting.
Not to be paranoid, but I think the old saying it's better to keep your mouth shut and have people wonder, than to open it and remove all doubt seems fitting.
Hello, I am freshly new here! I dont know much about refining but I do know neighbours. Dont tell them anything at all!
I am into chemistry and have a small setup in my garage. My neighbour across the street is very nosy and always tries to take a look at what im doing. ( sort of like Mrs Cravitz from Bewitched )He uses the disguise of walking with his tiny daughter back and forth in front of my garage. He's just itching to pick up a phone. I now do all procedures that involve fumes in the middle of the night. Nobody smells anything and everyone is safe. Like others have posted, dont give anyone even the smallest reason to report you. They will lie and exaggerate and it will cause you grief.
I am into chemistry and have a small setup in my garage. My neighbour across the street is very nosy and always tries to take a look at what im doing. ( sort of like Mrs Cravitz from Bewitched )He uses the disguise of walking with his tiny daughter back and forth in front of my garage. He's just itching to pick up a phone. I now do all procedures that involve fumes in the middle of the night. Nobody smells anything and everyone is safe. Like others have posted, dont give anyone even the smallest reason to report you. They will lie and exaggerate and it will cause you grief.
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
It's better to keep your mouth shut and make them wonder, than to open it and remove all doubt, sometimes.
I belong to my neighborhood watch, one of the reasons I joined was because I had my little garage operation going and I wanted to know if anyone in the neighborhood watch program was "watching" me. They are all good people, sometimes a little too intrusive, but if you have one in your neighborhood and doing any of this in your garage it might be a good idea to join up and go to their meetings.
I thought at some point I was going to have to explain what I was doing, or explain it away in some way. There is a rumor going around, in my neighborhood, about what exactly I am doing in my garage late at night. People think I am some sort of obsessed gunsmith hobbyist. I don't bother to correct people when something is said.
My new neighbor across the street was moving in, so I asked if he needed any help. At one point he wanted to show me his gun and ask me a question about it so I told him I could recommend a good gunsmith for him, and he immediately started back tracking, evidently someone told him that I am working on guns in my garage but that I don't talk about it, or that I am very private about it.
I am no gun smith, I know about guns but I wouldn't even attempt to work on any. I have never claimed to be a gun smith. I have never talked about my guns with anyone, I am almost as paranoid about someone trying to steal guns as I am about the precious metals. But since everyone thinks I work at night, and working on guns, I get the impression that they think I am barricaded in my garage at night with loaded guns. I don't foster any of this, and sometimes feel the right thing to do would be to correct people when they mention it, but I don't.
Only rolling up the garage door enough so that I can get underneath it in case of an emergency, and for ventalation purposes discourages people from walking up to my garage and asking questions. I only roll it up about a 1/3 of the way. And like other people who have posted, any reactions I do at night. I don't have to do things this way much longer, I am getting ready to move into a small warehouse.
Scott
I belong to my neighborhood watch, one of the reasons I joined was because I had my little garage operation going and I wanted to know if anyone in the neighborhood watch program was "watching" me. They are all good people, sometimes a little too intrusive, but if you have one in your neighborhood and doing any of this in your garage it might be a good idea to join up and go to their meetings.
I thought at some point I was going to have to explain what I was doing, or explain it away in some way. There is a rumor going around, in my neighborhood, about what exactly I am doing in my garage late at night. People think I am some sort of obsessed gunsmith hobbyist. I don't bother to correct people when something is said.
My new neighbor across the street was moving in, so I asked if he needed any help. At one point he wanted to show me his gun and ask me a question about it so I told him I could recommend a good gunsmith for him, and he immediately started back tracking, evidently someone told him that I am working on guns in my garage but that I don't talk about it, or that I am very private about it.
I am no gun smith, I know about guns but I wouldn't even attempt to work on any. I have never claimed to be a gun smith. I have never talked about my guns with anyone, I am almost as paranoid about someone trying to steal guns as I am about the precious metals. But since everyone thinks I work at night, and working on guns, I get the impression that they think I am barricaded in my garage at night with loaded guns. I don't foster any of this, and sometimes feel the right thing to do would be to correct people when they mention it, but I don't.
Only rolling up the garage door enough so that I can get underneath it in case of an emergency, and for ventalation purposes discourages people from walking up to my garage and asking questions. I only roll it up about a 1/3 of the way. And like other people who have posted, any reactions I do at night. I don't have to do things this way much longer, I am getting ready to move into a small warehouse.
Scott
goldmike
Member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2013
- Messages
- 22
Several years ago I was in my back yard had a carboy full of beer i had brewed . The carboy had a amber liquid in it ( dark beer) an a air-lock on it . I was siphoning the beer out into a korney keg to pressurize it an carbonate it with my CO2 tank. I'm standing there when 5 police officers ran into my yard with guns drawn . Yelling " GET ON THE GROUND !! I almost pooped myself ...Apparently a neigh boor called an thought I was making drugs 
I was like WTF !!! Well it was all straightened in like 30 mins the police were saying " well sorry sir but it didn't look good ...Then I kinda thought about it an was like well ok but I could have got shot . The police then checked to see if it was legal for me to make beer ( it is ) it all turned out ok in the end . Never take for granted that people wont jump to conclusion that you are doing something illegal when you are perfectly innocent . I proved to the police it was beer by drinking a glass in front of them LOL .They also smelled it . I was brewing in another stainless pot an had not added my hops yet ,so ofcourse ( hops a green kind of bud looking plant) was also questioned :mrgreen: but one officer that showed up after the fact was a ameture beer maker also an he told the others what I was doing was legal in every way ... I was thankful for the last officer that showed up . He was nice an had common sense . The others were on a witch hunt an seemed to be trying to find a reason to take me in . After that I don't really trust police any more. Serve an protect ? I don't think so .
I was like WTF !!! Well it was all straightened in like 30 mins the police were saying " well sorry sir but it didn't look good ...Then I kinda thought about it an was like well ok but I could have got shot . The police then checked to see if it was legal for me to make beer ( it is ) it all turned out ok in the end . Never take for granted that people wont jump to conclusion that you are doing something illegal when you are perfectly innocent . I proved to the police it was beer by drinking a glass in front of them LOL .They also smelled it . I was brewing in another stainless pot an had not added my hops yet ,so ofcourse ( hops a green kind of bud looking plant) was also questioned :mrgreen: but one officer that showed up after the fact was a ameture beer maker also an he told the others what I was doing was legal in every way ... I was thankful for the last officer that showed up . He was nice an had common sense . The others were on a witch hunt an seemed to be trying to find a reason to take me in . After that I don't really trust police any more. Serve an protect ? I don't think so .
goldmike.
Be careful about generalizations. They're usually all bad. Wait a minute. Was that a generalization?
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But to to say:
It's a "location" thing - it all depends on your point of view. To your neighbor, the officers were serving and protecting them by investigating their complaint. What if you had been cooking up a batch of meth and you screwed up. It could take out your house as well as theirs. I hate meth addicts for the difficulties they've created in obtaining the chemicals we use. But that's not the police' fault, or even your neighbor's, it's the meth heads'.
A drunk driver who gets pulled over and spends the night in jail probably feels the same as you, but the police were trying to serve and protect everyone else on the roads. I know, it's not the same. The drunk was breaking the law and you weren't. But when the police showed up and saw you they couldn't know that yet, and they can't just walk into your yard and say "Excuse me sir. May we ask what you're doing there?" It's a good way for a cop to end up dead.
No, I'm not a cop. But when I was growing up my parents had 2 good friends who were. I learned that Roy and George were just normal people like the rest of us trying to do their jobs and take care of their families. Our daughter is also married to a cop. If he ever found himself in the exact same situation, I'd rather he take the same exact action than to go to his funeral with our daughter and our grandson.
It's a matter of your point of view. Others may disagree.
Dave
Be careful about generalizations. They're usually all bad. Wait a minute. Was that a generalization?
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But to to say:
is just not fair.
It's a "location" thing - it all depends on your point of view. To your neighbor, the officers were serving and protecting them by investigating their complaint. What if you had been cooking up a batch of meth and you screwed up. It could take out your house as well as theirs. I hate meth addicts for the difficulties they've created in obtaining the chemicals we use. But that's not the police' fault, or even your neighbor's, it's the meth heads'.
A drunk driver who gets pulled over and spends the night in jail probably feels the same as you, but the police were trying to serve and protect everyone else on the roads. I know, it's not the same. The drunk was breaking the law and you weren't. But when the police showed up and saw you they couldn't know that yet, and they can't just walk into your yard and say "Excuse me sir. May we ask what you're doing there?" It's a good way for a cop to end up dead.
No, I'm not a cop. But when I was growing up my parents had 2 good friends who were. I learned that Roy and George were just normal people like the rest of us trying to do their jobs and take care of their families. Our daughter is also married to a cop. If he ever found himself in the exact same situation, I'd rather he take the same exact action than to go to his funeral with our daughter and our grandson.
It's a matter of your point of view. Others may disagree.
Dave
its-all-a-lie
Well-known member
FrugalRefiner said:goldmike.
Be careful about generalizations. They're usually all bad. Wait a minute. Was that a generalization?
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But to to say:
is just not fair.
It's a "location" thing - it all depends on your point of view. To your neighbor, the officers were serving and protecting them by investigating their complaint. What if you had been cooking up a batch of meth and you screwed up. It could take out your house as well as theirs. I hate meth addicts for the difficulties they've created in obtaining the chemicals we use. But that's not the police' fault, or even your neighbor's, it's the meth heads'.
A drunk driver who gets pulled over and spends the night in jail probably feels the same as you, but the police were trying to serve and protect everyone else on the roads. I know, it's not the same. The drunk was breaking the law and you weren't. But when the police showed up and saw you they couldn't know that yet, and they can't just walk into your yard and say "Excuse me sir. May we ask what you're doing there?" It's a good way for a cop to end up dead.
No, I'm not a cop. But when I was growing up my parents had 2 good friends who were. I learned that Roy and George were just normal people like the rest of us trying to do their jobs and take care of their families. Our daughter is also married to a cop. If he ever found himself in the exact same situation, I'd rather he take the same exact action than to go to his funeral with our daughter and our grandson.
It's a matter of your point of view. Others may disagree.
Dave
I have to disagree with what you said in regards to the police "can't just walk into your yard and say "Excuse me sir. May we ask what you're doing there?". There is no reason for them to perceive you as a threat unless you are agressive towards them, and they very well could have came into the yard without guns drawn and demanding him to get on the ground. In my opinion they should have came in maybe with gun in hand just incase, but to order him on the ground is just rediculous without probable cause. It is also my opinion that the police were not there to protect the neighbors but instead they were there in hopes of generating a little revenue for their state. Warren vs. D.C. states the police have no legal obligation to protect a citizen, unless they are in the custody of the police, and even then it is questionable. I had a run in with my local sheriffs department back in October, i was guilty of nothing, but i was treated as if i had committed murder while robbing a mom and pops drug store for materials to cook meth with. I was dragged from my home half naked, handcuffed, made to stand outside in cold weather in my underwear for 45 minutes while they searched my home for someone who had not been at my address for over 3 years and while they were inside my home they stole my property. I simply answered MY door at MY home at 6:15am with my pistol in hand, and that is what got me this special attention. Without getting too political i will say this, i personally have no respect for law enforcement because of this and i believe if everyone received the same treatment as myself and another forum member who was present that morning at 6:15am, you would all feel the same way.
goldmike
Member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2013
- Messages
- 22
Ok Dave You do have a point , but I live in a up scale neighborhood in a nice home an i'm almost 60 years oldFrugalRefiner said:goldmike.
Be careful about generalizations. They're usually all bad. Wait a minute. Was that a generalization?
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But to to say:
is just not fair.
It's a "location" thing - it all depends on your point of view. To your neighbor, the officers were serving and protecting them by investigating their complaint. What if you had been cooking up a batch of meth and you screwed up. It could take out your house as well as theirs. I hate meth addicts for the difficulties they've created in obtaining the chemicals we use. But that's not the police' fault, or even your neighbor's, it's the meth heads'.
A drunk driver who gets pulled over and spends the night in jail probably feels the same as you, but the police were trying to serve and protect everyone else on the roads. I know, it's not the same. The drunk was breaking the law and you weren't. But when the police showed up and saw you they couldn't know that yet, and they can't just walk into your yard and say "Excuse me sir. May we ask what you're doing there?" It's a good way for a cop to end up dead.
No, I'm not a cop. But when I was growing up my parents had 2 good friends who were. I learned that Roy and George were just normal people like the rest of us trying to do their jobs and take care of their families. Our daughter is also married to a cop. If he ever found himself in the exact same situation, I'd rather he take the same exact action than to go to his funeral with our daughter and our grandson.
It's a matter of your point of view. Others may disagree.
Dave
I was not hiding in a basement . I was in my backyard an there is only a 3 foot chainlink fence . I was wearing a pair of shorts an a Roll tide t-shirt 8) I had done this like 20 times before. An the police had never been to my house for anything. This area is not known for drugs . I think if a police officer is so scared they have to run up on a old guy in shorts an flip-flops yelling an pointing guns ,then are still jerks when they see that that what you are doing is innocent ,there could be a problem . I did leave out a few things like them seeing my closed circuit cameras an asking me for the tape an asking me if they could come into my house ( told them I did not consent to a warrentless search an they asked me if I had something to hide ) Two of the same police officers were arrested for planting evidence possession of drugs and [possession of guns with the serial numbers filed off . Their names are Wesley Little and Ryan Moore. Google it Dave huntsville Alabama I have nothing else to say have a fine day Sir.
goldmike,
I appreciate you keeping an open mind and seeing another point of view. I fully agree that there are bad cops and good cops, just like there are good and bad people in the rest of the population.
My point was that to generalize and condemn all police based on your experience is not fair to all the good cops out there, like the one who arrived at the end and got the others to stand down.
its-all-a-lie, I can't imagine why they would treat you that way just because you answered your door with a pistol in your hand. :roll:
Now let's get back to talking about refining.
Dave
I appreciate you keeping an open mind and seeing another point of view. I fully agree that there are bad cops and good cops, just like there are good and bad people in the rest of the population.
My point was that to generalize and condemn all police based on your experience is not fair to all the good cops out there, like the one who arrived at the end and got the others to stand down.
its-all-a-lie, I can't imagine why they would treat you that way just because you answered your door with a pistol in your hand. :roll:
Now let's get back to talking about refining.
Dave
necromancer
Well-known member
ya i dont like the way the US makes the rules for the world.
i was forced to upgrade my windows live messanger, after the forced upgrade i simply uninstalled it, thats about 17 years of using it will now need to try something else. (ICQ) LOL
i was forced to upgrade my windows live messanger, after the forced upgrade i simply uninstalled it, thats about 17 years of using it will now need to try something else. (ICQ) LOL
glondor said:
its-all-a-lie
Well-known member
FrugalRefiner said:
Maybe you have guests show up uninvited and unannounced at 6am, i do not. Im sorry i do not have the funds readily available to live in a gated community where everything is rainbows and unicorns or to have my own personal armed guards, but what i do have is the mentality and the ability to protect myself. Maybe one day us poor people can enjoy the luxury of going to sleep at night and not have to worry about anything because we know the police care about us. Until then, i will provide my own security for my family instead of relying on the police.
its-all-a-lie
Well-known member
FrugalRefiner said:
As far as i know, the constitution still stands and the 2nd and 4th ammendments are still in place, they have not been taken away yet. BTW, i do not appreciate the eye roll. I am done with this subject in the open forum, if you wish to continue it please do so by pm.
goldmike
Member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2013
- Messages
- 22
Amen brother ! I have a security system that has 8 cameras an it's hosted on a computer at my home an a server in Florida . after what I went through with the local authorities I am a bit gun shy an I no longer am at ease with the way things are. The 2 ex police officers that tried to make me give them the tape an give them access to my house are now in prison . i will never really know for sure but in my mind I believe if I would have buckled under an did what they requested I would have been arrested an charged unjustly . I stood up for my self an my rights an said " no you can't have the tapes an no you can not come in my home with out a warrant" They were very angry an I believe if they would not have seen the CCTV cameras they may have done something that would have been very harmful to my self or my family. I may be paranoid but in my life I have seen a lot in my military service an my jobs an travels abroad . I do not think you were out of line for answering your door with a fire arm at 6am . My security system is two dogs ( they are trained an take commands in Latin yes i'm college educatedits-all-a-lie said:
an my youngest son is a Latin scholar ) My CCTV is motion sensor activated an my dogs are trained to bite intruders in a very venerable area ( use your imagination :lol: ) semper fi .... Stand up an represent !
Guys,
I understand your position and I don't begrudge you your opinion. I don't live in a gated community either. No armed guards. No unicorns or rainbows. My wife and are are pretty much hermits. We live off the beaten path and have few visitors. Our house can't be seen from the street. But occasionally someone gets lost around here and ends up coming down my driveway at odd hours. I too am prepared and willing defend my family by whatever means necessary or to die in the effort.
All I was trying to do was provide another point of view as it related to goldmike's story. Our world has changed since I was a kid. My parents' police friends were respected by the majority of people. While there were dangers involved, a typical traffic stop was a typical traffic stop. A call to a domestic disturbance was routine.
Things have changed. Now a cop has to approach every stopped vehicle prepared that someone may pull out a weapon. A call to a domestic disturbance may end in gunfire. In some areas it's a badge of honor to take a shot at a cop. I'm not saying that either goldmike or you were treated fairly. Based on your accounts, it sounds like you weren't.
I'll repeat my original point one more time, and then I intend to let this go and get back to my studies here.
Dave
I understand your position and I don't begrudge you your opinion. I don't live in a gated community either. No armed guards. No unicorns or rainbows. My wife and are are pretty much hermits. We live off the beaten path and have few visitors. Our house can't be seen from the street. But occasionally someone gets lost around here and ends up coming down my driveway at odd hours. I too am prepared and willing defend my family by whatever means necessary or to die in the effort.
All I was trying to do was provide another point of view as it related to goldmike's story. Our world has changed since I was a kid. My parents' police friends were respected by the majority of people. While there were dangers involved, a typical traffic stop was a typical traffic stop. A call to a domestic disturbance was routine.
Things have changed. Now a cop has to approach every stopped vehicle prepared that someone may pull out a weapon. A call to a domestic disturbance may end in gunfire. In some areas it's a badge of honor to take a shot at a cop. I'm not saying that either goldmike or you were treated fairly. Based on your accounts, it sounds like you weren't.
I'll repeat my original point one more time, and then I intend to let this go and get back to my studies here.
I'm sorry if my post offended you. That is not why I come here.
Dave
As a kid i couldn't tell you how many times i've rode my bicycle several miles with a 22 or a 20ga shotgun over the handle bars going to my friends house to hunt or shoot. Hell i even stopped and talked with the police when i passed them. They just sent me own my way! Reckon what would be the outcome of that today.
