What's happening here?

[Barren Realms 007]

i saw the video

from this point 1:let settle
2:decant liquid off the top of the settled powders and sluge
3:add hcl-clorox to dissolve values add clorox in small increments and stir untill all is in solution
4:add water 3:1 in volume and let settle (a white powder may or may not form on the bottem)
5:decante liquid off of this powder or fillter well into a clean glass container
6:add SMB to precipitate the gold into a fine powder (this is what you should be washing )
7:for cleaner gold redo step 3 to 6 then dry and melt your powder

Thanks Skyknee, this was going to be my plan of attack for tomorrow.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

2. Heat to 60C.

3. Add 10 mL of Clorox and stir until the solution no longer fizzes with tiny bubbles.

4. Repeat Clorox additions with vigorous stirring after each until color of sediment changes from black to a tan/light brown/gray or completely dissolves, whichever comes first.

Steve I have a couple of questions on this.

I take it that the heat is supposed to stay on the solution till this process is finished?

The addition of the HCL during this, when the fizzing stops is it because the clorox has reacted and it is to the saturation point with clorox or is it just that the temperature is dropping and it dosen't react as much when you add the clorox?

The reason I ask is because I siphoned off the coffee pot today and did this procedure on the material. I started with 1-1/2 cup's of HCL and with temp around 140 F I added 1/3 cup clorox very slowly had the viloent reaction (slight bubbling HA ROFLMAO). Nope I have done this before so I didn't mess up. I added this over a period of about 5 min and then let the solution stay heated. After about 30 min I could still see some flakes so I added 1 cup of HCL and another 1/3 cup of clorox slowly again. The flaked dissapeared and I didn't see any visable sighns of gold. Should I have just kept adding clorox to the first 1-1/2 cups till the fizzing as it is called slowed to a non violent reation? i let this stay on the heat for another 30 min.

When I filtered the solution it had a clear emerald green color to it. Copper in solution I take it. Harold do you still think It was overkill on the washing? The filter paper had a very positive test forPM's when I tested the solution after the filter had been rinsed. I doulbled the volume with water and dropped with SMB. Had a very thick looking light brown percipitation.

And the orange solution in the picture in the first post of this thread. I put some SMB in it today and it dropped a darkish brown looking percipitate. Not very thick tho.

I know all of you have been thru this and it is not my first batch, just trying to build some confidence make sure things are correct. Thank you for your paitence.

Harold_V wrote:
Serious overkill! I'm all for good washing and rinsing, but you reach a point of diminishing, or no return.

The point of doing the HCl wash in this type of material is to insure good filtration. I wouldn't be concerned about a wash with ammonium hydroxide, especially if the source of the material didn't include any silver.

Having spoken my piece, I have to admit, if a gold of high quality is the target, you'll never be sorry for too much washing. I am a firm believer in the idea that garbage being carried through a process is going to show up in the final product. It's just a matter of how much you're comfortable in living with.

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This looked better outside in the dark with a flash light, It looks bad in the light. IMHO!!!

Edited: Changed Clorox to HCL

 

[butcher]

You can wash powder's till your blue in the face and still get base metals,and still have basemetals in the powders.
and you will be guessing how much of that white powder is copper.
dissolving, reprocessing works, as it picks them up into solution were a wash will not. sorry to but in here.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

You can wash powder's till your blue in the face and still get base metals,and still have basemetals in the powders.
and you will be guessing how much of that white powder is copper.
dissolving, reprocessing works, as it picks them up into solution were a wash will not. sorry to but in here.

Yes sir there is definetly a learning curve here......

And you are neve buttin in as far as I am concerned, I enjoy reading your posts on the forum.

 

[butcher]

seems like once, we think we leran something we find out how many more things we need to learn, and how little we do understand. this is what make people grow old and wise. a quest for to know. :lol:

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Well I'm definetly on the quest for knowledge if you can bare with my stupid sorry ass.

And by the way, no white powder to be found in the soluion any more....DUHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[butcher]

barren nobody thinks you are stupid, just the opposite, only smart people spend this kind of trouble to learn, not sitting on a couch watching cartoons, keep this up and you too will become old and wise, did you have Iron in the mix?

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I think so in the first batch. But looks more like possible copper in the last batch of the coffee pot. Look at the picks I posted a few posts up just above your first post. What is your oponion?

 

[butcher]

if this was with clorox, seems to have a copper, or nickel color but kinda looks like maybe some Iron, if so it can precipitate the copper, I really have not been following this that close, and you have others here helping you with this, so you will be best to stick with there help, looks like you are getting there I'll just back out now, good luck. Cannot wait to see that pretty chunk of gold from this batch.

 

[shyknee]

your precipitates are what you should wash and boil not the gold pins and foils
the gold powder will need to be redissolved in a minimum amount hcl-cl and reprecipitated
post a picture of your button or at least the weight of the powder dry



good going so far

you will learn to use a stannuos test on the spent solution to make sure all the gold precipitated out


be safe
and enjoy

 

[lazersteve]

Steve I have a couple of questions on this.

I take it that the heat is supposed to stay on the solution till this process is finished?

Yes.

The addition of the HCL during this, when the fizzing stops is it because the clorox has reacted and it is to the saturation point with clorox or is it just that the temperature is dropping and it dosen't react as much when you add the clorox?

Sounds like you either typed this backwards from my instructions or performed it backwards, I will assume it's a typo as you should add the HCl to the powder first, then slowly add small increments of Clorox. You may have to add more HCl if a small fresh addition of Clorox does not produce any reaction and there is still visible gold, black powder, or brown powder present. Since liquid bleach is dilute (2.5-5%) right out of the jug, not much chlorine gas (the active ingredient) is formed with each addition, that's why the fizzing stops. Stirring allows the dilute Clorox to contact the HCl in the solution to produce the chlorine gas to dissolve the gold. Stirring also brings the powder off the bottom of the beaker and allows it to contact the chlorine. This is why stirring is so important. Not just a simple stir like you stir your coffee, but repeated vigorous stirring.

... I started with 1-1/2 cup's of Clorox (lazersteve: this should read HCl not clorox) and with temp around 140 F I added 1/3 cup clorox very slowly had the viloent reaction (slight bubbling HA ROFLMAO) (lazersteve: in my instructions I suggested 10 mL additions, not 78 mL, hense the violent reaction.). Nope I have done this before so I didn't mess up. I added this over a period of about 5 min and then let the solution stay heated. (lazersteve: this much Clorox should have been added over the course of 40 mins with vigous stirring between additons) After about 30 min I could still see some flakes so I added 1 cup of HCL and another 1/3 cup of clorox slowly again. (lazersteve: see previous notes above) The flaked dissapeared and I didn't see any visable sighns of gold. Should I have just kept adding clorox to the first 1-1/2 cups till the fizzing as it is called slowed to a non violent reation? (lazersteve: Yes) i let this stay on the heat for another 30 min. (lazersteve:Good, this will drive off the excess chlorine from the over abundance of Clorox you used)

I know all of you have been thru this and it is not my first batch, just trying to build some confidence make sure things are correct. Thank you for your paitence.

Overall you did very well to achieve what you did. Please take note of the red colored comments I have inserted to your post.

Steve

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Thanks Steve.

Yes it was a typo I started with 1-1/2 cups of HCL not clorox. Sorry about that I will go change it. The clorox was 1/3 cup of clorx was not added in one pop it was added in about 20 ml increments, but in too short of time as you say. I think my heat was too high( I was using a meat cooking thermometer because my didgital one went bad). I feel that the clorine was evaporated off when it hit the solution hence the violent reaction. There was not as strong clorine smell from the pot after the reaction as in my past batches( or my smelling has gone hay wire).

Ok I'm repeating today with a little bit less heat and smaller clorox additions. Appreciate the help Steve.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

... I started with 1-1/2 cup's of Clorox (lazersteve: this should read HCl not clorox) and with temp around 140 F I added 1/3 cup clorox very slowly had the viloent reaction (slight bubbling HA ROFLMAO) (lazersteve: in my instructions I suggested 10 mL additions, not 78 mL, hense the violent reaction.). Nope I have done this before so I didn't mess up. I added this over a period of about 5 min and then let the solution stay heated. (lazersteve: this much Clorox should have been added over the course of 40 mins with vigous stirring between additons) After about 30 min I could still see some flakes so I added 1 cup of HCL and another 1/3 cup of clorox slowly again. (lazersteve: see previous notes above) The flaked dissapeared and I didn't see any visable sighns of gold. Should I have just kept adding clorox to the first 1-1/2 cups till the fizzing as it is called slowed to a non violent reation? (lazersteve: Yes) i let this stay on the heat for another 30 min. (lazersteve:Good, this will drive off the excess chlorine from the over abundance of Clorox you used)

Ok Steve I followed your instructions very closely. I started with 2 cups of HCL this time which was about twice the volume as you suggested. I lowerd the heat a little bit and didn't get as violent of a reaction as yesterday. I also took a 3/8" water supply tub and dipped it in the clorox and then injected it into the HCL to let the clorine gas have more effect on the solution. I injected about 2 cups of clorox over the run of this, still kept getting a fizzing reaction when I put the clorox in, even with so much clorox was in there.

Thank you for the tip's, help, guidence & paitence.

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[butcher]

pretty sunset.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

pretty sunset.

Yea the picture does not due it justice. We have been having sunsets like that for the last 2 weeks. I caught one about 3 months ago that was the best I have ever seen, but I lost it when my phone died.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Hello all. Thanks for the help from eveyone on this batch.

I put the filter material thru another round of HCL/clorox today. Got a reaction on the test and performed a drop again. Getting a dark setteling solution today.



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Everyone getting ready for Thanksgiving?

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Just an update on this thread. Don't throw your solutions away.

After the soultions on this thread were not testing for gold they were thrown in a pot by themselves. They were heavily saturated with SMB. They have set since August. A precipitant of gold settled and stuck to the side of the plastic bucket the solution was in. A lot of clorox was used on these to make sure that all the gold had been dissolved.

Well months later the solution was reduced by heating in a crock pot.

A hard material developed in the bottom of the crock pot during the reduction.

The solution was drained off and tested positive for gold, this was placed equally in 2 quart glass jars.

SMB was added to one in powder form, about 1oz., gold formed.

1 oz of powder was added to the 2nd glass jar, aand same results.

Both jars were added together into a 1 gal glass container. And the volume double by the addition of water. And again SMB was added, this time mixed with warm water and then added to the solution. A very fine and probably dirty gold cloud is still setteling. And will be processed again.

Water was added to the hard substance in the crok pot and it returned to a liquid with gold mixed in. Haven't finished processing this yet.

Always trust what your teachers tell you here on the forum. Don't throw your soultion away untill you have exhausted all possabilities.

 

[Harold_V]

Just an update on this thread. Don't throw your solutions away.

Somehow I missed reading some of the posts in this thread, one of which addressed a question to me. I apologize---I try to never ignore a direct question.

I believe your question was about washing precipitated gold.

Unlike Steve, I never put a time limit on washing, nor do I recommend you, or anyone, do so.

Reason?

Well, for starters, it's unlikely you'll be consistent enough for your washing procedure to respond to a clock. That's particularly true if you process materials like bench filings, where you incinerate, then give the filings a preliminary wash in dilute nitric. In spite of your best efforts, the resulting gold will be of questionable quality, so prolonged boiling in HCl is required. Even then, you will not be successful in raising the quality to an acceptable level----but you will improve the quality markedly, preparing it for the final refining, which, when conducted properly, will most assuredly yield gold that exceeds industry standard. I would hesitate to suggest you will accomplish 4n's, but it is possible. Therefore, no, you can't wash your gold too much.

I highly recommend you boil for a prolonged period of time, then do a boiling rinse (tap water is fine). A second application of HCl and a prolonged boil will generally indicate if you have removed that which will willingly be removed. The second boil will generally yield only a faint color, generally blue/green.

Gold of this quality will respond exceedingly well to a second refining. It should not be melted, but dissolved directly. If you use SO2 gas to precipitate, the entrapped contamination will be evident after the gold has settled via the off color of the remaining solution.

Lets talk about your stock pot.

Anything that hits your stock pot should give up its values almost instantly. A properly maintained stock pot will have an abundance of base metal present at all times, until it is time to clean out the recovered values. My policy was to keep mine filled with small pieces of scrap steel. Short lengths of angle iron, channel iron, even pipe, galvanized or not, are very acceptable. The material is slowly dissolved, collecting the values in the process. Remember----a stock pot's sole purpose is to recover traces of values that might otherwise be lost.

Hope some of this helps.

Harold

 

[lazersteve]

Unlike Steve, I never put a time limit on washing, nor do I recommend you, or anyone, do so.

For the record any references I make to timing in my washing process is included merely for a reference to the observed times I typically see when washing my precipitated gold. As Harold points out, wash times vary with the contamination present in the gold powder. I never wash with a timer set or watching the clock, all washes are done 'on the fly', and treatment is carried out until the HCl no longer darkens and a subsequent wash remains relatively clear as Harold has always stated.

Steve

 

[Harold_V]

Steve's comments are right on target. I should have considered that, in his case, he primarily is dealing with recovered materials that are almost barren of base metals. In such a case, a short wash may be (and probably is) adequate. Key to success is the one single indicator that displays the intended results----further washing does not yield a discolored wash solution.

Harold