99.5%? Is it possible?

[Refiner232121]

The reason I am reading this thread is to find info for the atomizer I would like to build.
The subject of the Miller process has taken my attention.
For starters am I right to understand that when melting the gold you mix chlorine gas into the crucible
Why would you do that.

As for the atomizer I will be buying a few pipes for high pressure and trying this design made by
qst42know
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6211&start=20

The power washer will be 750 psi and like GSP said the 4 nozzles will get 750 each psi
I am not sure about the gpm but maybe something like 1.4 GPM

I will let you know about the results

 

[Lou]

The chlorine reacts with everything but the gold (and PGMs present). Gold chloride is not stable thermodynamically at that temperature. The silver, copper, and other base metal chlorides are either volatile, or float to the top as a slag that is bailed off. The resultant gold usually clocks in around 3N. Bear in mind that the AgCl so produced must still be smelted to silver and then the slimes processed for accountability on the gold.


Lou

 

[qst42know]

From this link the pressure should be closer to 13.7 MPa, 40L/min (1987 psi, 10 gal/min).

http://books.google.com/books?id=6aP3te2hGuQC&lpg=PA102&ots=wO3JDSW_Vc&dq=water%20atomizing%20precious&pg=PA105#v=onepage&q=water%20atomizing%20precious&f=false

 

[Refiner232121]

Hi Lou
Thanks for that info.
I see that there is a lot of info in this thread about the Miller process and I am reading when I have the chance
In the mean time I will explain to you what I understand and I will make it simple.
1. melt gold
2. with a tube or whatever stick a pipe in the molten metal
3. inject chlorine gas
4. with a vacuum cleaner suck in the gas that gets out(I guess the vacuum air is let outside with a hose)
5. clean up the metals that floats to the top
6. Pour the molten gold into an atomizer
7. Aqua Regia process
Would this be a proper way to this process
Hi qst42know
Thanks for your help
Most of the machines on the market sold locally seem to be
1900 psi to 2000 psi and 1.5 GPM(electric machine)
I will try to find something with a higher gpm but if not can I add something to the power washer to give it more gpm

 

[HAuCl4]

Refiner: Unless processing huge quantities, you can ignore the Miller process completely IMO. A good but economical atomizer based process would generally be simpler, faster, safer, and cheaper to operate. What lot size do you intend to process per day?.

 

[Refiner232121]

Hi HAuCl4
I have notice all that info you have posted on this subject and thanks for that.
I am not exactly sure but mostly small lots like half a kilo to 3 or 4 kilos of gold
Also if I can be more competitive than I can get larger lots

 

[HAuCl4]

For those amounts, definitely ignore Miller. Read that thread and the one for the refining lab, second time around, by 4metals and you'll have more than you need in terms of knowledge. You do not need an atomizer either, but it would make your life easier, and process faster. You should read Hoke's book too. Also kadriver has a recent thread, with pictures, of the step by step process to very good results. Good luck!.

IMO, refining in 5 hours or less is a goal worth pursuing for a commercial operation. :shock:

 

[Refiner232121]

Thanks HAuCl4

 

[Refiner232121]

When people melt aluminum they mix in there chlorine capsules
these are sold in wall mart

Re. the "fumes" and the "chlorine": Any pool boy that maintains a medium sized swimming pool at a country club, handles more chlorine per year than most refiners... . He keeps it dilute in water though!. :shock:

Can this be related to what we are talking about

The silver chloride we recovered using sulphuric and iron, like explained in the literature. We did not refine silver except for a small amount in a thum cell, to be used in the fire assays. This is another story and fully documented in the literature.

Where would this be

 

[Harold_V]

When people melt aluminum they mix in there chlorine capsules
these are sold in wall mart

I have an interest in casting aluminum and would benefit by hearing more about the chlorine capsules of which you speak. Where are they found at Wal*Mart? (What department, and under what name?)

Harold

 

[Lou]

They're called TCCA (trichloroisocyanuric acid)--very cheap and common. They break down into Cl2 when stirred into the melt and make HCl and volatile gases that have low solubility in the melt. Usually they are pushed down into the melt with a rod of some sort; I advise against iron if you're casting performance parts as aluminum is a decent solvent for it. It's used in lieu of a nitrogen sparge to displace any hydrogen that's absorbed into the melt. Molten salts (i.e. CaCl2, NaCl, MgCl2) also serve as a good flux at these low temperatures.

 

[Harold_V]

Thanks, Lou. I was interested to some degree, but have a bottle of nitrogen (for plastic welding) which I expect I'll use should I ever get that far along. My curiosity was raised when the ready availability of chlorine tablets was mentioned.

Interestingly, we were discussing this very issue on the Chaski board just about a week ago, so I placed a call to an old friend that runs a foundry in Utah. It was at his brother's foundry where I first witnessed the use of nitrogen. In spite of his years of experience, he made mention that nitrogen was used to displace oxygen. I knew better, but said nothing. Oxygen in molten aluminum isn't likely, due to aluminum being so reactive. I expect it is commonly known as dross. :lol:

I am well aware of the solvent powers of molten aluminum and speak out regularly against the use of iron vessels, but there's a faction that won't have any part of being informed. To them, cheap is far better than doing it right.

Harold

 

[Lou]

Not to derail this thread any further, but I've no problem using a cheap TIG-welded iron pipe (like Lionel's on BYMC) for aluminum or zamak if it's for decorative castings where strength and other properties aren't really a principal concern. Otherwise, all the aluminum casting I did was in clay-graphite crucibles. I would not ever use steel for bronze--a big heat of bronze is dense enough that it can easily ruin welds and run out if the welds aren't very competent. I preferred silicon carbide Salamander brand for bronze and brass. I use Vesuvius (some UK company) SiC crucibles for gold and silver and they work very, very well. I greatly prefer silicon carbide for the peace of mind and durability. Thermal shock is much less of an issue with them. I just hate the smell of the glaze they put on them!!!


Harold, I did some magnesium casting with a petro bond greensand system and iron crucibles worked perfect for the magnesium--no significant solubility at all. I used a coarse pumice stone to filter the dross that would form immediately after careful skimming. I had only one crucible go up on me. Professionals use SF6 and resistance heating to melt magnesium in steel crucibles.

 

[HAuCl4]

Can gold scrap be practically dissolved/inquarted with magnesium?. :shock:

 

[Lou]

Doubtful but feel free to find a phase diagram and post it.

 

[qst42know]

Anyone a member of Springer materials data base?

http://www.springermaterials.com/docs/info/10000866_291.html

 

[Harold_V]

Can gold scrap be practically dissolved/inquarted with magnesium?. :shock:

Why would anyone want to?

Harold

 

[Oz]

I am waiting to hear the report on how things went when the torch was applied to the the magnesium/gold scrap blend. Once ignited you could turn off the torch and let the magnesium finish the job.

I am curious though what prompted the thought.

 

[HAuCl4]

Melting magnesium with a torch in an oxidizing atmosphere would be a bad idea. :shock:

 

[garywolch]

So does any one know from personal experience
a refiner that pays 99.5% If so please share the information