A video posted by a member for refining DIP's Let's discuss this!

[Shark]

Read the threads 4metals posted. They are where I started and may still be 90+percent of what I know about it.

But to quick answer your question, the base metals can interfere, properly fluxed and sparging during the smelt will remove many of the worst offenders. It will become very learning intense to start with but start coming together and you will find many uses for a copper cell. If you have ran a silver cell you should catch on to the cell aspect easy enough. The flux combinations are a nightmare but an important part of the smelting. Getting them right can save a ton of time once it moves to the cell side.

Actually once I started to catch on, it was and is still, just plain fun to work with.

 

[rusti2]

Some time ago we started a smelting thread you can find here.
It describes how different fluxing combinations will oxidize the base metals into the slag leaving copper and precious metals behind to cast into anodes.

This part is strictly done in a melt furnace with fluxes and generates no acid waste. The smelting also benefits from the ability to run individual customer jobs in a smelt and quantify the PM content for payment.

then proceed to the electrolytic copper cell here.

Very interesting is the oven designed to be operated by a single person and with which pyrolysis, calcination, melting and refining can be carried out alternatively with a built-in afterburner that serves as a smoke purifier, with respect to how to determine the end point of the oxidation of base metals by injecting oxygen or compressed air into the melt, a semi-quantitative test could be obtaining a previously weighed molten slag sample of a few milligrams by dissolving with nitric acid, eliminating it by evaporation. of the residual nitric and the addition of ammonium hydroxide solution until the precipitate that is formed is redissolved, obtaining a solution of tetramnincopper nitrate of intense blue color that could be visually compared with previously prepared standard solutions of known concentrations.

 

[4metals]

While that furnace appears to be one that can be operated by 1 worker, a #150 crucible is large. It can be poured by a single worker but removing the afterburner will require help. A smaller version can undoubtedly be operated by 1 person.
The single biggest problem was overheating in the pyrolysis process. Keeping the heat sufficient to pyrolyze but not hot enough to melt the metal in the material. That issue was partially tackled by 2 different changeable burner feeds on the bottom. One for pyrolysis and one for melting for the copper smelt process.
This setup was done in a facility with a lab and an Atomic Absorption so the base metal impurities as well as the PM’s contained could be monitored and a time for completion of the smelt was calculated.

a semi-quantitative test could be obtaining a previously weighed molten slag sample of a few milligrams by dissolving with nitric acid, eliminating it by evaporation. of the residual nitric and the addition of ammonium hydroxide solution until the precipitate that is formed is redissolved, obtaining a solution of tetramnincopper nitrate of intense blue color that could be visually compared with previously prepared standard solutions of known concentrations.

Perhaps a discussion of the semi quantitative method described above by rusti2 would be useful. From the description quoted above I cannot get a grasp of what is suggested.

 

[rusti2]

While that furnace appears to be one that can be operated by 1 worker, a #150 crucible is large. It can be poured by a single worker but removing the afterburner will require help. A smaller version can undoubtedly be operated by 1 person.
The single biggest problem was overheating in the pyrolysis process. Keeping the heat sufficient to pyrolyze but not hot enough to melt the metal in the material. That issue was partially tackled by 2 different changeable burner feeds on the bottom. One for pyrolysis and one for melting for the copper smelt process.
This setup was done in a facility with a lab and an Atomic Absorption so the base metal impurities as well as the PM’s contained could be monitored and a time for completion of the smelt was calculated.



Perhaps a discussion of the semi quantitative method described above by rusti2 would be useful. From the description quoted above I cannot get a grasp of what is suggested.

In the oxidation process of base metals with oxygen, when they finish oxidizing, the copper also begins to oxidize. The beginning of strong copper oxidation would be the end point of the oxygen supply that could be tested, this increase in cupric/cuprous oxide in the slag, with the visual comparison of the intensity of the blue color in the tetramine copper nitrate solution with few elements available, nitric acid, ammonia and some test tubes.

 

[4metals]

I think this may be an oversimplification because there are many oxides of base metals which may be in the slags such as iron, lead, tin to name a few. Different concentrations of different metal oxides combined with different slag chemistry compositions from using different flux components, all of which can affect the color of the copper complex mixed in with all of the other potential color influencers in the soup.

So as nice is a simple color test sounds, the fastest result can be had by a PIN dip of the molten pool followed by an XRF. For the hobby refiner, for which I still think this is a viable method, it's just time exposed to the sparger tube.

I would still like to see more input from members who have processed these DIP's chemically.

 

[rusti2]

I think this may be an oversimplification because there are many oxides of base metals which may be in the slags such as iron, lead, tin to name a few. Different concentrations of different metal oxides combined with different slag chemistry compositions from using different flux components, all of which can affect the color of the copper complex mixed in with all of the other potential color influencers in the soup.

So as nice is a simple color test sounds, the fastest result can be had by a PIN dip of the molten pool followed by an XRF. For the hobby refiner, for which I still think this is a viable method, it's just time exposed to the sparger tube.

I would still like to see more input from members who have processed these DIP's chemically.

Yes, it is true especially Ni and Co, if any, that give soluble complexes colored with ammonia.

 

[kurtak]

I would still like to see more input from members who have processed these DIP's chemically.

I am sorry that I have not had the time to get back to this thread but am quite busy right now (day job with hour & half drive - cutting firewood for winter heat on weekends - etc. etc.)

As many of the older member here know I spent something like 6 - 7 years processing IC chips in 50 - 60 pound batches - the first year (where I focused/specialized in processing IC chips) I believe I processed like 250 - 300 pounds & that went up to around 500 - 600 pounds per year the last 3 years or so

I of course started out a few years before that like most "hobby refiners" doing small batches of 5 -10 pounds

Doing the larger batches (50 - 60 pounds) all got started when a member here started sending me 50 - 60 pound batches 2 - 3 times a year - plus my own chips (stripped from HIGH chip population boards only) as well as picking up other clients that started bring me chips

All of that aside the way I would handle this material is different

I would choose the smelt and copper electrolytic cell path

I agree !!!

For the first few years (about half of them) of working with these larger batches the recovery of the PMs (gold/silver) was done by way of chemical leaching (as I only had a furnace that would take # 4 crucible)

However - due to the amount of chemical waste created with chem leaching I started researching the smelting process & finally about half way into my years of doing this I finally had a furnace made that would take a # 40 crucible & went to the smelting process

Hands down - smelting - IMO - is the better way to go - & not just for IC chips but many other PM containing materials

Smelting not only reduces chem cost but also time & the BIG ONE - chem waste

That said - I never set up a copper cell - I simply sold off the dore metal from the smelting to a company that paid a "very good" price on the PMs (but not the copper)

That said - I have already posted a great deal of info on this forum about processing IC chips - both leaching & smelting --- so IF (the BIG IF) I get time I will try to post even more to this thread - or maybe start a new thread with more/better info about IC chip processing

All I have time for to day

Kurt

 

[galenrog]

I remember too well cutting and splitting firewood. If you can find a source of peeler cores, that job could become a bit easier, leaving time and energy for other tasks.

Time for more coffee.

 

[offtrailhiker]

Refining DIP's

This video is made by Trinity Gold. I do like some of his techniques but question others. I think this video will give us an opportunity to put everyone's life's experiences together to discuss what he did and why. And propose any changes you would make and we can hash those out as well.

In the end, I will summarize this thread to, hopefully, have a detailed methodology for all to follow when needed. Then the summary will go into the library so we can find it when we need it!

So, to avoid too much moderator BS, who wants to go first?

Edited because I found the link. "My bad"

 

[FrugalRefiner]

The link is the very first line of 4metals' post where it says Refining DIP's. I just checked it and it is working.

Dave

 

[offtrailhiker]

My observations are relatively simple, and I didn't take notes: I've seen a number of YouTube videos where the YouTuber grinds off the legs, so at least Trinity didn't do that. The open air operations are bizarre. When dissolving his gold he covered the product with HNO3 then added HCl. You guys say, rightfully so, to cover with HCl then slowly add HNO3 until reaction stops. When he poured off the fluid from his AgCl he lost some AgCl by pouring too much. When he used the siphon I wonder how he got it started? I've seen guys siphon gasoline using their mouth to create the vacuum. So I wonder. Like 4metals, I wouldn't mind having one of those grinders.

 

[Juniorbrzl]

Refining DIP's

This video is made by Trinity Gold. I do like some of his techniques but question others. I think this video will give us an opportunity to put everyone's life's experiences together to discuss what he did and why. And propose any changes you would make and we can hash those out as well.

In the end, I will summarize this thread to, hopefully, have a detailed methodology for all to follow when needed. Then the summary will go into the library so we can find it when we need it!

So, to avoid too much moderator BS, who wants to go first? Have at it!

Hello 4metals. I would like to contract your consulting, if possible. Please, make contact. I wait. Thanks.

 

[4metals]

Hello 4metals. I would like to contract your consulting, if possible. Please, make contact. I wait. Thanks.

To start, I will inform you that I am old and I am retired. So I am no longer taking on new clients.

However I still participate freely on this forum and we could give you a tremendous amount of free help here to get you going.

It is apparent to me that, if you have come to a forum to seek a consultant, you have little exposure to the recovery side of the business. One path forward would be for you to list your goals and desires in a thread here on the forum and allow members, myself included, participate to guide you in the right direction. At some point you may decide to look elsewhere for a consultant anyway, but at that point you will likely have learned some of the intricacies of refining and be better prepared to ask the right questions and select a better consultant.