Accomplished nothing so far

[FrugalRefiner]

when it comes to recovering precious metals from a messy but acidic solution, we have a phrase that sends many of us in the correct direction.

“When in Doubt, Cement it Out.”

I like that! For more detail, see When In Doubt, Cement It Out.

Dave

 

[galenrog]

Thanks, Dave. I guess that means I got most of it right.

 

[Jdub123]

Hello all. I was a much better engineer than I am a gold recovery chemist. I have disassembled a workstation, two laptops, a cell phone and multiple other electronics and recovered absolutely nothing so far. I have used aqua regia on computer parts after breaking them down in nitric or hydrochloric acid or even cleaning with lye. After washing the parts with water and heating in aqua regia, I get what appears as a yellow or green liquid. The solution tests weakly for gold (light purple from stanneous chloride). After killing nitric with urea, I've added sodium metabisulfite, which the solution gobbles up, but never produces any tangible precipitate. On two occasions I've gotten violent overflows. But nothing really ever drops from the solution. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong would be much appreciated. Thank you.

I think ur problem is urea doesn't neutralize nothing they sell something in the tile and grout section at home Depot I can't think of the name right know maybe someone else an tell u what it's called but I think that is why

 

[Jdub123]

Doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong Edwin. I think the problem lies in the scale of what you're doing. You're getting the right results but you don't have enough raw product to get a visible amount of physical gold, if what you're saying here is accurate. From a weak purple test you might get a light dusting (volume dependent) and that's about it.

Nailing the processes is good, now you need to get plenty more gold into the solution. Edit: My post assumes that you are testing negative after adding SMB. If not then you haven't denoxxed and Sulphamic Acid is much better at doing this than Urea.

Yes that's what I was trying to think of I couldn't remember but that is what the problem is

 

[GoIdman]

I appreciate the responses. But, why was the urea totally ineffective? Before addition, the hot AR reacted on copper by forming a green residue. But when I tested the de-noxed solution on copper tubing there was no effect. Wouldn't that indicate the acid was neutralized?

I also did the requested reading. TBH most of it seems quite dated and overly detailed. I am only interested in gold recovery, not silver, palladium, platinum, copper, etc. I have switched from urea to sulphamic acid (just received) and will greatly reduce the amount of nitric acid used. Do you all have some type procedure specifically for gold retrieval from computer and electronic parts with steps that detail (1) limits and precautions, (2) equipment and chemicals required, (3) a step by step process that covers preparation of gold bearing parts, addition of chemicals including quantities, timing, heating, testing, filtering, de-noxing, precipitation, washing/drying gold powder, smelting and recovering gold beads/button? If not, given the necessary knowledge, as a registered professional nuclear engineer with decades of naval and commercial experience, perhaps I could help write one. Thank you, edp

Hi Edwin,

There are several processes which are used for different material processing.

1) RAM sticks: in a nutshell
- Separate the IC chips from the sticks using either a heatgun or a cutter. Note there are two types of chips, BGA and legged, sort them separately.
- Gold fingers. Trim the fingers as close as you can, use AP on those, this is a basic straightforward process, almost foolproof.

2) Motherboards, slot cards (video): in a nutshell
- My experience is to remove only the North/South bridge flatpack BGA`s and get rid of the rest of the board, those are the highest yield components on the motherboard. These are processed separately with their own process.
- In case of old motherboards with ceramic CPU`s there are other valuable components as well.

3) endless type of materials
- relays, contacts, automation equipment, motors, audio-video equipment and so on and so forth. Each of these materials has its on proven process, all available on this forum. Use the search function and you`ll find the answer.

You will find a lot of useful knowledge here, don`t be afraid to use the search function, the processes for everything above can be found with yields and full process description here on the forum. You are not in a hurry, it takes time to get the expected results.

As you can see, the trick is laying in the recovery process, we usually separate and sort everything before processing begins, so that the amount of chemicals used to recover the precious metals is limited to just the amount needed and not creating unnecessary waste. Don`t worry, we were also in your shoes when we started (at least i was for sure), so you are not missing out on anything, time will bring experience.

IMHO, select one type of material and perfect your processing skill on that type (most people including me, started with RAM stick,) When you master that process, work your way up to more complicated processes, meantime you can collect and separate and prepare material for those processes, and when time comes, you can collect your rewards.

We are here to help,

Be safe

Pete

 

[Edwin Price]

Hi Edwin,

There are several processes which are used for different material processing.

1) RAM sticks: in a nutshell
- Separate the IC chips from the sticks using either a heatgun or a cutter. Note there are two types of chips, BGA and legged, sort them separately.
- Gold fingers. Trim the fingers as close as you can, use AP on those, this is a basic straightforward process, almost foolproof.

2) Motherboards, slot cards (video): in a nutshell
- My experience is to remove only the North/South bridge flatpack BGA`s and get rid of the rest of the board, those are the highest yield components on the motherboard. These are processed separately with their own process.
- In case of old motherboards with ceramic CPU`s there are other valuable components as well.

3) endless type of materials
- relays, contacts, automation equipment, motors, audio-video equipment and so on and so forth. Each of these materials has its on proven process, all available on this forum. Use the search function and you`ll find the answer.

You will find a lot of useful knowledge here, don`t be afraid to use the search function, the processes for everything above can be found with yields and full process description here on the forum. You are not in a hurry, it takes time to get the expected results.

As you can see, the trick is laying in the recovery process, we usually separate and sort everything before processing begins, so that the amount of chemicals used to recover the precious metals is limited to just the amount needed and not creating unnecessary waste. Don`t worry, we were also in your shoes when we started (at least i was for sure), so you are not missing out on anything, time will bring experience.

IMHO, select one type of material and perfect your processing skill on that type (most people including me, started with RAM stick,) When you master that process, work your way up to more complicated processes, meantime you can collect and separate and prepare material for those processes, and when time comes, you can collect your rewards.

We are here to help,

Be safe

Pete

I appreciate the info and encouragement. I did some minor depopulating tonite. Mostly from an old router and a few pieces of pcb.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I appreciate the info and encouragement. I did some minor depopulating tonite. Mostly from an old router and a few pieces of pcb.

It us hard to see what is inside those containers.

 

[GoIdman]

I appreciate the info and encouragement. I did some minor depopulating tonite. Mostly from an old router and a few pieces of pcb.

As I wrote before, we are trying to keep everything separated. Pins (separate magnetics from non magnetics since their process is different), fingers, IC`s, etc.

Pete

 

[Edwin Price]

It us hard to see what is inside those containers.

Here’s a closeup.

Yes it should be possible to reclaim the Gold, at least some.
But we need to know exactly what happened.

For the solutions, make sure ut is acidic by adding some HCl and then put in a slab of Copper.
This will cement out any values therein.

I added HCL to the solutions. I inserted copper material too. A dark material residue began to form on the copper. The darker solution required medium heat to get the copper to attract anything. I've had to clean and remove the material from the copper several times already. Process is still underway. What is the dark residue comprised of? And, what are the next steps in my attempt to recover my lost gold? Thank you, edp

 

[Edwin Price]

I have filtered out and collected a lot of solid waste material too. What process should I use to start potential recovery of any gold from that mess? Right now I am continuing to depopulate computer and electrical components. I'd appreciate input and advice from anyone on this forum. Thank you, edp

 

[galenrog]

Here’s a closeup.

I added HCL to the solutions. I inserted copper material too. A dark material residue began to form on the copper. The darker solution required medium heat to get the copper to attract anything. I've had to clean and remove the material from the copper several times already. Process is still underway. What is the dark residue comprised of? And, what are the next steps in my attempt to recover my lost gold? Thank you, edp

The dark material is all metals in the solution less reactive than copper, such as gold. Very dark brown, even black, is common from a dirty solution.

Study the link Frugalrefiner gave you above.

Time for more coffee.

 

[Edwin Price]

The dark material is all metals in the solution less reactive than copper, such as gold. Very dark brown, even black, is common from a dirty solution.

Study the link Frugalrefiner gave you above.

Time for more coffee.

So if the copper is collecting residue, any lost gold should fall out as precipitant on the bottom of the beaker - correct? Can any gold get into that black residue on the copper? If gold precipitates out, I'm assuming after filtering the remaining solution is of little to no value. ty

 

[Martijn]

The black (and/or brown) residue is the gold. It cements out on the copper where the copper goes into solution. They exchange an electron and this is called a redox reaction or a displacement reaction. A salt becomes metal, a metal becomes a salt. The black can also be coper oxides or other precious metals.
Silver is usually grey when cemented, like portland cement, hence the name cementing. gold is brown to black and most PGM's are black.

 

[Edwin Price]

So far, I've learned a lot. Firstly, I need more gold plated components to start a refining campaign. I wasted some good product in several failed attempts that I haven't been able to recover yet. Still working on it via the "cement it out" process. Fortunately, I have access to scrap computer and electrical parts and can accumulate material about as fast as I can depopulate and condition circuit boards. I know now to remove as much plastic, solder, fiberboard and other metals as possible before starting a new batch to prevent dirty solutions that can suck up the gold I'm trying to refine. I will also use intermitently much less nitric acid than I did previously. I swapped out urea for sulphalmic acid. And, I'm trying Ferrous Sulfate this time instead of sodium meta-bisulfite (I know either product should do the job). I hope to have enough material prepared to make another attempt this weekend. It would be great to finally get an actual black positive stannous chloride test and then recoverable gold precipitant, that can be cleaned, rinsed, dried to powder and smelted into a gold bead. I have a MAPP gas torch, crucibles, borax and sodium carbonate. Wish me luck and please offer any advice or experience you deem helpful. Thank you!

 

[Edwin Price]

My efforts to cement lost gold out of waste solution with copper were unsuccessful so far. I'm going to buy a larger quantity of copper and more muriatic acid tomorrow. I've also dug out my air bubbler to improve agitation of the dirty solutions. Any advice or tips from someone who has been successful in this area would be much appreciated.

 

[anachronism]

Edwin. Are you 100% sure your solution is now denoxxed? Have you tried adding a pinch (and I mean a pinch) of the Sulphamic to your solution when hot and checked there is absolutely no fizzing, even when left for 30 seconds and then stirred?

Edit: when you heat your solution to hot, are there any brown fumes still coming off it?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

My efforts to cement lost gold out of waste solution with copper were unsuccessful so far. I'm going to buy a larger quantity of copper and more muriatic acid tomorrow. I've also dug out my air bubbler to improve agitation of the dirty solutions. Any advice or tips from someone who has been successful in this area would be much appreciated.

See When In Doubt, Cement It Out.

Dave

 

[Martijn]

My efforts to cement lost gold out of waste solution with copper were unsuccessful so far. I'm going to buy a larger quantity of copper and more muriatic acid tomorrow. I've also dug out my air bubbler to improve agitation of the dirty solutions. Any advice or tips from someone who has been successful in this area would be much appreciated.

If all the copper dissolved you have too much nitric in there. You do not need to add HCl. How much copper dissolved?

 

[MvK]

Sorry but i would not even chase the gold that is in your solution right now. You might want to spend your time depopulating and gathering more material to process.

Your gold is there and you will eventually get it because you need to process all of your waste solutions in the same way in a later point in time.

I collect my waste solutions in a 15 litre container filled with copper. When its almost full i will add bubbles and leave it for a few (2/3) weeks. After that i take the copper out and let the solution settle, also for a few weeks until the solution is clear and syphon off the clear liquid. At the bottom should be a nice layer of black sludge that contains your lost gold and other PM's.

One of the youtubers that is actually worth checking out is Sreetips, also active here. Watch his waste solutions videos, this might help.

MVK

 

[Edwin Price]

Sorry but i would not even chase the gold that is in your solution right now. You might want to spend your time depopulating and gathering more material to process.

Your gold is there and you will eventually get it because you need to process all of your waste solutions in the same way in a later point in time.

I collect my waste solutions in a 15 litre container filled with copper. When its almost full i will add bubbles and leave it for a few (2/3) weeks. After that i take the copper out and let the solution settle, also for a few weeks until the solution is clear and syphon off the clear liquid. At the bottom should be a nice layer of black sludge that contains your lost gold and other PM's.

One of the youtubers that is actually worth checking out is Sreetips, also active here. Watch his waste solutions videos, this might help.

MVK

Thank you for the valuable info. I don’t think I used enough copper to properly start the process.