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Aluminium Sampling Furnace

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I decided to have

1)
http://elliscustomknifeworks.hightemptools.com/images/12inchvertical1.jpg
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2)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91033
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3)
3/4" Venturi Burners:
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4)
Also another small torch

That makes 4 torch places in all
http://shorinternational.com/TorchAcesory.htm
Here I am at I shor
and I dont see any connector for such a thing
What is the proper terminilogy for such a multi propane connectors
and where can I buy one
Thanks
 
Contact a welding supply house for that type of stuff.

Can I makea suggestion get a MAPP gas hand tourch and practice with that till you know what you are doing and have a better idea of what you will need. It is a great handy device and you can accomplish a lot with it. If you need me too I will post a picture of one. You have way too much over kill in what you are looking at using.
 
Hi Barren
Thanks for your help
I have done plenty of soldering in jewelery with a torch.
You are right about in saying that I have too many torches

Maybe you can give me advice
I already have a torch that used by jewelers and I would like to attach that to the propane tank
Also I would like to have a torch for a furnace with a blower.

So I am saying 2 will be enough
But lets say I want to use a venturi burner
It will be a hassle to change it and also can damage the equipment
Thanks
 
Ok now that bit of info helps a lot it shows that you know how to use a tourch. I have to get to work but I will be back this afternoon and see if I can make some short videos of the tourches I am talking about.

That big unit what are you planing on doing with it? The pot furnace I will call it with the red piping for the burner.
 
Hi Barren
Thanks for your help
The burner that is painted red will be new to me I have never had a furnce with a blower.
I plan on melting bars in a crucible and making cornflakes and refining
 
I assume you mean you are going to inquirt gold in this? One of the other more knowlegable people here will have to say if that is fesable in this unit I think it will be say with a #10 crucible? Or what size are you planing on using that will make a big diffrence in what you build.
 
A #10 crucible is pretty big. For inquartation of karat gold, I would imagine a #4 or #6 would be fine. Just remember that you can always put a small crucible in a big furnace, but not visa versa. As long as you're putting the effort into building a furnace, I would build one bigger than what you think you need. The added time and cost of building a little bigger furnace is not that great. You never know what the future will bring. The last furnace I built was a #20. I poured many 100s of 10 and 100 oz silver bars in graphite book molds using a #6 or #8 crucible in this furnace. For general melting and pouring silver cell bars, I usually used a #16 or #20 crucible.

The number size of the crucible is equal to the weight of aluminum that it will hold, in pounds. I think this is brim full but, of course, you'll never completely fill the crucible. I would figure a max of, say, 1/4 to 1/3 full, for gold or silver. The S.G. of aluminum is about 2.7 and the S.G. of a 25% Au/75% Ag-Cu alloy is 11 something. Therefore, you can get about 4 times more inquarted gold in the crucible than you can aluminum. A #4 crucible, 1/4 full, would therefore hold about 4 pounds of inquarted gold, if my math is right. That's a lot - a pound of actual gold content.
 
GSP could you possibly explain what you run into in trying to keep heated a large qty of gold like this to pour. I feel you can get the point across better than I can. I don't think people understand the problems of trying to heat up quantities like this.
 
Barren Realms 007:
Have you looked at this furnace?
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/bucketfurnace2.html
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oliverburner1.html
dickb
 
GSP could you possibly explain what you run into in trying to keep heated a large qty of gold like this to pour. I feel you can get the point across better than I can. I don't think people understand the problems of trying to heat up quantities like this.

That's hard for me to answer because I never thought much about it. Of the many 100s of melts I've made, I only remember a few times that the melt froze before I poured it. Usually, that was because of something dumb I did. For example, I pulled the crucible out, only to realize that I hadn't prepared the mold yet or, maybe, I hadn't yet dumped the metal out of the mold from the previous pour. When this happens, I just put the crucible back in the furnace and re-melted the metal. You soon learn how hot the melt should be in order to not have any problems. Generally, you can do this by looking at the colors. When the material isn't well melted, it will be darker than the color of the inside of the furnace. Depending on what you are melting, the right color is often yellow or light yellow. When it's ready to pour, the furnace, crucible, and melt will all be very close to the same color.

You have to look into the furnace often and you can't do that without the right equipment - it's too hot. An old method is to make a square ping-pong like paddle about 12" x 12" square, or so, with a handle, out of about 3/8" plywood. In the center, cut a slot about 1/8" wide x 4" long, vertically. The kerf should be about the right width with a circular saw. To look in the furnace, you just hold the paddle to your face and look through the slot with one eye. I usually don't remove the lid to look at the melt. I look through the exhaust hole in the lid, which is usually about 4" wide on a #20 furnace.

If you have problems getting enough heat to get a good melt, it is usually because the furnace isn't adjusted properly or the gas pipe wasn't large enough to start with.

Here's how I used the natural gas furnace:
(1) I put a piece of burning paper in the furnace chamber and partially turned on the gas only - no air. Leave the lid off. Adjust the gas till it swirls to about the top of the chamber.
(2) With the lid off, let it heat the furnace for 5-10 minutes.
(3) Then I closed the lid and let it heat the lid for a few minutes. Adjust the gas so the flame is coming out of the exhaust hole in the lid about 6" - 8". Warning. If you close the lid too early, before the chamber is heated up properly, the flame can go out. If this happens, shut the gas off and turn on the air to exhaust the fumes from the chamber. Turn the air off and start over
(4) Turn on the air slightly. The flame (the tail) coming out of the hole will be shorter. Adjust the tail until it is about 3" long. At this point, the roar of the furnace should be about maximum.
(5) Let the furnace heat until it's about yellow inside - maybe 45 minutes. You may have to adjust the tail every so often. Just remember - more gas, longer tail - more air, shorter tail.
(6) For certain things, you need the furnace to be hotter or cooler. To raise the temp., first increase the gas (the tail will get longer) and then adjust the tail down to about 3" with the air. To lower the temp., first decrease the air (the tail will get longer) and then decrease the gas to about a 3" tail. Warning. The order of making adjustments is extremely important. If you do it in reverse, you will have not tail and you can blow the flame out. For safety sake, you should always have a tail.
 
goldsilverpro said:
You have to look into the furnace often and you can't do that without the right equipment - it's too hot. An old method is to make a square ping-pong like paddle about 12" x 12" square, or so, with a handle, out of about 3/8" plywood. In the center, cut a slot about 1/8" wide x 4" long, vertically. The kerf should be about the right width with a circular saw. To look in the furnace, you just hold the paddle to your face and look through the slot with one eye. I usually don't remove the lid to look at the melt. I look through the exhaust hole in the lid, which is usually about 4" wide on a #20 furnace.

Excellent explination GSP. Thank You.

Might I suggest a set of cutting goggles to look thru or a welders helmet.
 
dick b said:
Barren Realms 007:
Have you looked at this furnace?
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/bucketfurnace2.html
dickb

I missed this post earlier.

I'm glad you posted that, I have been thinking about that burner for the last couple of days. There is a break down of that burner some where on the web site would you mind finding it and posting a link to it.

I'm going to see if I can get one of these short videos made.
 
Ok I hope this is informative and helps on some questions on tourches.

Here are a couple of videos and some pictures comparing a MAPP gas tourch like Lasersteve uses and what in the plumbing trade is called a B-Tank(Acetelyne) in our area with a turbo tourch setup with quick connecting tips that range from pencil size to about 3/4" in diamater.

I have used these tourches on copper piping up to 4". Using lead solder just before the new 95/5 solder was required for use in potable water systems. A single tourch for 1 pipe connection with the largest tip.

I have silver soldered 4" copper in 35 deg temp with heavy wind blowing, it took 2 tourches working on the same joint to complete the job.

This set of pictures shows the MAPP gas tourch. I think the last one I purchased was around $95.00.

Tourch pictures 011.jpg

Tourch pictures 010.jpg

Tourch pictures 009.jpg

The following pictures are of the B-Tank. The tank cost about $85.00 last one I purchased. The regulator and handle with quick connect probably $85.00-175.00. The tips run from $65.00-300.00 or more for the larger ones. These tips you treat like fine china, you don't just beat on things with them while in use it ruins the internals and they will not work afterwards.

Tourch pictures 001.jpg

Tourch pictures 002.jpg
 
Here are some videos for your enjoyment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDI3pP1suLA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWkxtwIebLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpMwLMEOGKw

The melting point of copper: 1983 F
The melting point of gold: 1945 F
 
Barren Realms 007:

I edited my earlier post and added the link for the burner. Here it is again
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oliverburner1.html
I have made a couple of these in different sizes and they work real well.

Dickb
 
Hi Dick b
Thanks for the link

Hi Barren
Thanks for those pictures and the videos , they were very helpful.
For starters I am going to buy this torch
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91033

I see that it does not need an oxygen tank its like a mapp gas torch.
I can even melt platinum with that


I dont know about the kind of regulator I will nedd
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=regulator&Submit=Go
 
PreciousMexpert said:
Hi Dick b
Thanks for the link

Hi Barren
Thanks for those pictures and the videos , they were very helpful.
For starters I am going to buy this torch
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91033

I see that it does not need an oxygen tank its like a mapp gas torch.
I can even melt platinum with that


I dont know about the kind of regulator I will nedd
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=regulator&Submit=Go


You will not be able to do platinum with that tourch.

The regulators in that link are pressure reducing regulators for compressed ait like from an air compressor. Not to be used with oxy/acet/propane and similar components.
 

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