am i going to perform aqua regia properly? please advise,

[mittens]

im just learning at the moment really, i just want to make sure i know the full details before i go playing with different harmfull acids! haha,
i just have 2 more questions for you if you guys if you would help me first,

1 - will aqua regia be ok to recover gold from mobile phone curcit boards and computer fingers? (i mean tolally cleened of all the little chips etc, just the board itself) or will it disolve the full board and contaminate my gold?

2 - how do i know how quantity of aqua regia to make? (i know ts approx 4:1 ratio) but i mean some peope tell you to mix so many milliliters according to how much gold you will be recovering, but i dont have a clue how much gold is on any of my items to work it out?

i have a rough idea what im gunna do and how im going to do it;

- (im going to do my experiment outside in the open air, wear acording safty equipment etc)
- mix the aqua regia four parts hydrocloric acid to one part nitric acid in a large plastic bowl,
- add my items (e.g curcit boards, plated items, ceramic CPU's, etc, i wasent going to mix them, i was going to do them in seperate batches, or will that be ok to put them all in together?)
- leave them all over night
- in the morning, remove all old ceramic bits, old curcit boards etc then filter off my liquid into another plastic container,
- then add a spoon full of urea (to nutralise nitric acid) and repeat untill bubbiling reaction stops,
- then add spoon full (not sure of exact quantity needed) of ferrous sulphate and again, leave over night,
- then next morning check if theres any more gold present in the solution with a pricipitate, if theres none left in the liquid filter off the liquid then dry the powder and melt,
- job done?

does this sound realistic to you or might i be doing somthing wrong?

thanks so much for your time and advice, it really means alot to me,
jamie

 

[Pantherlikher]

im just learning at the moment really, i just want to make sure i know the full details before i go playing with different harmfull acids! haha,
i just have 2 more questions for you if you guys if you would help me first,

1 - will aqua regia be ok to recover gold from mobile phone curcit boards and computer fingers? (i mean tolally cleened of all the little chips etc, just the board itself) or will it disolve the full board and contaminate my gold?

2 - how do i know how quantity of aqua regia to make? (i know ts approx 4:1 ratio) but i mean some peope tell you to mix so many milliliters according to how much gold you will be recovering, but i dont have a clue how much gold is on any of my items to work it out?

i have a rough idea what im gunna do and how im going to do it;

- (im going to do my experiment outside in the open air, wear acording safty equipment etc)
- mix the aqua regia four parts hydrocloric acid to one part nitric acid in a large plastic bowl,
- add my items (e.g curcit boards, plated items, ceramic CPU's, etc, i wasent going to mix them, i was going to do them in seperate batches, or will that be ok to put them all in together?)
- leave them all over night
- in the morning, remove all old ceramic bits, old curcit boards etc then filter off my liquid into another plastic container,
- then add a spoon full of urea (to nutralise nitric acid) and repeat untill bubbiling reaction stops,
- then add spoon full (not sure of exact quantity needed) of ferrous sulphate and again, leave over night,
- then next morning check if theres any more gold present in the solution with a pricipitate, if theres none left in the liquid filter off the liquid then dry the powder and melt,
- job done?

does this sound realistic to you or might i be doing somthing wrong?

thanks so much for your time and advice, it really means alot to me,
jamie

1st a formost STOP. Looks like you just joined here so do a few searches and read read read. You do NOT put boards into AR. it makes a bad mess.
If you have some patience, the more experienced guys here will chastise you for even attempting this without 1st learning everything you need to learn. Starting with the Hazzardous section of this forum. It's extremely easy to make a seemingly small mistake that will haunt you forever. Please do nothing with what you have. READ... Read...read...
BS.

 

[martyn111]

1st a formost STOP. Looks like you just joined here so do a few searches and read read read. You do NOT put boards into AR. it makes a bad mess.
If you have some patience, the more experienced guys here will chastise you for even attempting this without 1st learning everything you need to learn. Starting with the Hazzardous section of this forum. It's extremely easy to make a seemingly small mistake that will haunt you forever. Please do nothing with what you have. READ... Read...read...
BS.

Good, sound advice.

You need to do a lot more reading before you injure (or worse) yourself or those around you.
If you have been reading the forum for any length of time you will know the advice given to new members, read Hokes book, which you obviously haven't done.
You also need to differentiate between recovery and refining before going any further

 

[patnor1011]

im just learning at the moment really, i just want to make sure i know the full details before i go playing with different harmfull acids! haha,
i just have 2 more questions for you if you guys if you would help me first,

1 - will aqua regia be ok to recover gold from mobile phone curcit boards and computer fingers? (i mean tolally cleened of all the little chips etc, just the board itself) or will it disolve the full board and contaminate my gold?

2 - how do i know how quantity of aqua regia to make? (i know ts approx 4:1 ratio) but i mean some peope tell you to mix so many milliliters according to how much gold you will be recovering, but i dont have a clue how much gold is on any of my items to work it out?

i have a rough idea what im gunna do and how im going to do it;

- (im going to do my experiment outside in the open air, wear acording safty equipment etc)
- mix the aqua regia four parts hydrocloric acid to one part nitric acid in a large plastic bowl,
- add my items (e.g curcit boards, plated items, ceramic CPU's, etc, i wasent going to mix them, i was going to do them in seperate batches, or will that be ok to put them all in together?)
- leave them all over night
- in the morning, remove all old ceramic bits, old curcit boards etc then filter off my liquid into another plastic container,
- then add a spoon full of urea (to nutralise nitric acid) and repeat untill bubbiling reaction stops,
- then add spoon full (not sure of exact quantity needed) of ferrous sulphate and again, leave over night,
- then next morning check if theres any more gold present in the solution with a pricipitate, if theres none left in the liquid filter off the liquid then dry the powder and melt,
- job done?

does this sound realistic to you or might i be doing somthing wrong?

thanks so much for your time and advice, it really means alot to me,
jamie

This is what you never put in AR unless your hobby is to produce complex mix of dissolved metals and hazardous waste.
You do not need to do it tomorrow. You can collect more, separate everything to different material lots and then as you learn about various processes you will use appropriate one to different materials.

 

[mittens]

im so sorry i seem to have got things all wrong then, i diddent want to upset anyone, you all seem very anoyed at me
i havent baught any chemicals or anything yet, i was just gathering information and i was only planning what i could possibly do and asking for your advice,
i have read quite alot on AR buy obviously i havent understood it correctly,
i have a huge yard and it is isolated so no one can get even close to where work so the only person at risk is myself,
im not a silly person and i wont try anything untill i know all the facts on this process as i know it can be DEADLY!
please would you help me then and give me some advice what a beginner should do,
i love chemestry and i realy love anything to do with gold, not for the money side of things, i love it because its gold thats it!!!!
please help me out and advise me, i feel so silly now and im so sorry if ive upset anyone here, i really look upto you guys, j

 

[FrugalRefiner]

mittens,

Don't give up on us yet. We truly are here to help. Many people see a youtube video or two showing how easy it is to get gold from computer parts, they throw a bunch of chemicals together with a variety of computer parts, then they come here and ask someone to give them the "easiest" way to fix it. It's just not that simple. I'm new here myself, only having been a member for less than a year. I've read over half the posts on the forum. And every day, I learn something new. I've done some small scale, "getting acquainted" expeiments, but no large scale processing.

Here's my advice to new members:

Be safe in everything you do. Before you jump into any of the processes you see discussed here, be sure you understand the potential hazards and do everything you can to minimize the risks.

Follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will provide an introduction to the forum and numerous valuable links. Be sure to follow the link to his web site as he has many outstanding videos, a collection of great reference documents, and he sells a lot of the supplies needed to get started including detailed instructional DVDs.

Download C.M. Hoke's book Refining Precious Metal Wastes. You'll see this book mentioned repeatedly here on the forum for good reason. It is probably the best book ever written for the beginner who wants to learn refining. It is written in layman's terms and will provide a solid foundation that will help you understand everything you read here on the forum.

Finally, and I can't stess this enough, read EVERYTHING in the Safety section of the forum. No amount of precious metal is worth jeopardizing your health or the health of those around you.

Once you understand the basics you can start to try some small scale experiments like I have. If there's something you don't understand or you get stuck, there will be someone here to help you.

Best of luck,
Dave

 

[Pantherlikher]

Exactly Dave. I too am a "noob" And have done exacxtly what you were going to do Mittens...What a mess. That was years ago and since have only been collecting and reading what I could find. Then I found this forum and will eventually be doing what we all like. Bur for now, enjoy being able to read and learn things that these fine people have desided to offer us free.....
O, and don't worry, we don't get upset, we just don't want to see anyone dive into the pool without looking to see if there is water in the pool...
Bs.

 

[butcher]

mittens,

Most all of us here are just like you we made mistakes, were too impatient to learn and tried things before we were really ready, all of us have done things wrong, and made our fair share of messes. Lost gold in our processes, none of us wish to be hurt or hurt others so we work to learn, and we may (scold you with concern to do it properly), this is mainly to get you to understand, get your attention, get you to focus, and this is done as a friendly gesture, no one is mad at you, nobody thinks you are stupid, no one is annoyed, but are just trying to help and get you to see when you are going the wrong way.

Sometimes we may need a slap up side of the head every once in a while to get our eyes focused.
It is much better to be slapped up side of the head than in a hospital on a respirator, from breathing toxic fumes.

These guys are trying to get your eyes focused that is all,
Get your attention and to get you to understand the seriousness of what you are attempting to learn.
Do not take it personally, actually you will find it was a friendly slap up side of your head,
Later once you learn more and then look back at this beginning,
And then you will say thanks I needed that I see much better now.

Their is no reason to put yourself at risk if you learn to do this safely.

As far as you being the only one in the lab and not putting others at risk, that would be fine if you never used any chemical or done any process, had no waste or fumes generated from your lab, but as soon as you use a chemical in the lab you are putting others at risk, unless you understand how to deal with the toxic waste you just made, also understand where all of those fumes from your lab are going and how they will react with the surrounding area.

 

[mittens]

thank you all for your advice, i suppse im just like you all have said, giddy to get on with it! i will sit and read hokes book through before i try anything and all i will do in the mean time is just carry on collecting things up e.g mobile phones, computer bits etc,
i just have the gold bug i suppose, i used to buy and sell gold when i was about 8 up untill i was about 22, then the prices went sky high and everyone use to take it to cash converters, ramsdens etc etc,
i love the idea of getting gold from scrap and i can get alot of it, computers, old phones, even the ABS units from cars!

i just have one other question on the chemical side of things if you guys would please answer me, (i promise i wont be trying anything untill i read hokes book!) i read on the internet that i put my cleen PCBs in a solution of nitric acid and water 50/50, this strips the gold foils off, then dry them and weigh them, then this gives me a weight and gives me the information i need to mix the aqua regia to the correct quantity, and then i add the gold foils to the aqua regia, NOT the PCB boards like you guys told me,
i only want to check if im on the right lines, and like i said i wont perform anything untill i have read book, promise,
thank you for all your help everyone and ill be online now and again reading all your posts,
j

 

[martyn111]

Mittens, Please do yourself a favour and forget what you have learnt elsewhere on the internet, you will find better and less dangerous methods here on the forum.
Using the search function, top right of the screen, look up the acid peroxide method, also refered to as AP. This will point you in the direction of a better cheaper method of removing gold foils from circuit boards rather than the 50/50 nitric acid that you refer to.
Although Hokes book will give you an understanding of how to deal with many metals and how to selectively dissolve them into solution, it doesn't deal with the processing of escrap, you will need to study the forum for information on dealing with escrap.

 

[kurt]

mittens - you have not upset anyone with your questions - the replies you have gotten so far are simple replies to get you headed in the right direction.

This is not a simple ask a few questions get a few answers process nor is it a one process fits all process.

First you have to "recover" your PMs (Precious Metals) then you "refine" them.

Different electronic components require different recovery process - part of recovery means removing different base metals - different base metals require different chemicals - that requires knowing right base metal/chemical order of base metal removal & that requires knowing how to treat things when you move from one chemical process to the next - somethings require incineration (&/or roasting) before processing & somethings require incineration at different stages of the process - & then there are different methods to treat the same material so you need to decide which method you want to work with.

Some elecrtonic components are worth the time & effort for the small hobby refiner to go after - others you are better off selling out right.

And all of that is just the tip of the ice burge

So - as you can see its not as simple as asking - "I want to recover & refine gold from electronics - how do I do it"? ---- because to fully answer that question would require a book with 100sssss of pages.

Those 100ssssss of pages are already posted right here on this forum - all you have to do is take the time to research the forum - & by all means - read Hokes book - then - if you don't quite understand something - or you just want to be sure what you understand is right - that is the time to start asking questions - & then you will get the help you need from some of "the best" in the art of refining.

Good places to start are - look for info on processing fingers - pins - IC chips &/or CPUs

And by all means - learn to do it safe - all the gold in the world is not worth hurting or killing your self for

Kurt

 

[mittens]

thank you again guys for your honnesty and all your help and advice, theres obviously alot more to it then than what i first thaught,
im willing to learn and i really want to have a good go, so ill get reading then,
thank you all for talking sense into me and for taking the time to advise me before i do anything silly, j

 

[butcher]

For me it is not learning a process and practicing what I learn, following the steps involved in a process, as most processes seem to have many variables in the beginning and things can also change as you go along. .

As when I process I make decisions as I work, and choose the process or which steps to take from an understanding of how things work or how they will react, or which step or process would be the best choice at this point or with these circumstances.
Just learning to follow steps 1 then 2 then 3 would be fine if there were no variables and your chemistry came out exactly like the man who wrote those steps to take, but all woods and forests are not the same, but what happens if you blindly take those steps and then look up in the middle of the forest and everything is different, without an understanding you are lost, and you will have no idea which way to go, taking step 4,5,and 6 at this point could get you further lost in this dark forest. but if you study and get an understanding of the process the why and how things work, what will and will not work, what might be a better choice and why, you can make decisions of which way to go even when there is no trail to follow.

So just reading Hoke's book can help you understand some steps to take, this may work most of the time if you’re working with the same materials, but you will soon find yourself lost in the woods unless you truly understand the principles she is trying to teach and get you to understand in her book.

 

[mittens]

thank you butcher (and everyone else) for your advice in my post,

im only 50 pages into hokes book at the moment and im finding it VERY interesting indeed, im not the best reader/wrighter (or speller as you will see in my posts! ) but its explained it terms i can easily understand,

aswell, ive been alover on the forum and learnt loads off you very knowlageable guys just by reading all your different posts, (including safety!)

i get totally starey eyed with the gold buttons you guys have made and took pictures off, it gives me the insentive to learn and now i understand why you guys told me to STOP and read, read, read, at the beggining of my post,

i want to do this properly like you guys have and im willing to take it slow and learn as i go, i love chemestry and i love gold so i think ive got my perfect hobby now! (beats my previous hobby, playing with old ford capris! :lol: )

all im doing for now is collecting different things which i have found gold in/on untill i learn what the best 'begginer' experiment will be,

i will post some pictures of my little stash (including where i got the bits from) for you guys to have a look at later tonight, see if im doing a good job,

i really admire you guys for shareing your HUGE knowlage and help for people like me (total ameture) to learn, and best of all you all do it for free,

 

[butcher]

Mittens,
As you study Hokes also look at the process for memory fingers, this will give you the needed material, to do Hokes getting acquainted experiments, and some of the metal testing procedures.

Start your learning experiments and lab like a scientist, study and take notes, learn before you react, be fairly confident of how to begin and finish a process before trying it, also get a good understanding o what to expect and what problems you may run into when you do the reaction, and understand how to fix it when it does not go as expected, then use your reactions to learn more, work to do things as precisely as you can develop good and safe work habits.

Mittens I think you will make a good refiner as long as you do not let gold fever take control of your mind.
Also consider saving your money where you can, there is no need for a fancy lab in the beginning (I still use kitchen equipment and canning jars), do not get into the trap of buying electronic junk from ebay (find it free where you can), keep on the lookout for higher grade scrap at reasonable prices sterling silver and karat gold, these are easier to work with and give better return in gold if you buy them at a fair price.

It takes time to learn, but that is ok, because it takes time to collect enough scrap to make a decent button of gold, and the longer you collect the scrap the more gold you will have, also working in small amounts loses are higher in the process than working with larger lots of scrap, and doing anything before you have a good understanding is a good way to loose a whole lot of gold.

About half the work (or fun) is collecting and keeping good notes, you will find there will be so much to keep track of, also your notes will need revising as you learn, old notes will have information some useful but you will learn better methods or want to add to these notes as you learn, or revise the notes.

Keep up the good work, your eyes in the books and on your goals, and keep us posted of your progress and what you learn, so we all can learn as you learn.

 

[Pantherlikher]

Good Luck Mittens and very glad you got the "smack up side the head" this early. Having learned this the wrong way, I jumped and tried to make you stop and see the trees in the forest. Not the gold the Leprechaun is hiding in the forest. Glad everyone else was able to help point you as well and hope you enjoy learning it all, (used loosely as you never stop learning), and find that pot o'le gold. I had read something from an ebay seller I bought and was off and pouring acids in no time... Hey, I read somethin on it n am be an expert now... Needless to say, almost everything was lost. I have a small jar of dark brown powder in some water sitting hidden that reminds me to enjoy the journey and not focus on the pot o'le gold. That way, my "Hobby" will be enjoyable and safe.
I've found that the section here, "Where to find PMs" very helpful in these early stages of learning. Helps keep active searching while reading.
Have fun every day and remember the consequences so you stay safe.
BS.

 

[bswartzwelder]

Really happy to see someone who will take the advice of the people on the forum seriously. Before I found the forum, I bought the kit from Shor. I put about 25 CPU chips (all ceramic) into the solution and could never find any gold. Long story short, all the liquid got spilled on my driveway and had to be washed into the grass and unknowingly I threw the chips into the trash. Don't know how much gold was lost from the fingers and the chips that got thrown out. Today, thanks to the forum and Hokes book, I feel I'm much wiser. Good luck to you and be safe. Also, today for the first time since that fiasco, I'm going to start using the AP method on some cleam circuit boards and fingers.

 

[mittens]

thanks again guys for all your replys and yes i will take ALL your advice seriously, i really want to have a go at this and get it right, so... im just going to post some pictures of my collection of bits and bobs i have found and saved up so far in the 'types of PM scrap' post and then im going to carry on with reading hokes book!......
thanks everyone! best wishes to you all, j

 

[FrugalRefiner]

One last suggestion that has served me very well. As you read, you'll probably see many posts that say something like "this has been discussed many times in the past...". When this forum started, everyone was getting to know everyone else. There was no history here yet, so every question was answered as fully as members could. As the years went by, many of the same questions were asked again and again, and many of the answers got shorter and shorter. In my opinion, the best way to learn on this forum is to start reading the oldest posts first, and work your way to the current ones. The great thing is that it's all still here. It just takes a lot of time.

It sounds like you're on the right track. Keep at it and you'll become a successful refiner!

Dave

 

[mittens]

hi guys,
i was up late again last night reading through hokes book, same as i will again tonight, lol! im finding it very interesting so far, also ive just purchased one of lazersteves DVD's 'Processing Fingers with Acid Peroxide, and video Guide to Processing Plated E-Scrap', im one of those people who seams to learn better if im shown what to do, aswell as reading about things, so i hope this will make things sink in a bit better with me!