Another Newbie Enters the Game

[lokiscarlet]

I have a lot of e-waste sitting around because I don't want it all to go into a landfill. I'm not new to chemistry, but I wouldn't describe myself as a chemist either, and gold being valuable, I haven't had many chances to experiment with it.
I've seen people dissolving and separating metals quite industriously in their stock pot, and it looks like with some more information on the various mixtures and their pros and cons, I could possibly do the same. I figure it could be a good practice to add to my gauntlet of self sufficiency methods. Hopefully I can find the right solution, pun intended, by lurking on this forum.
Not sure if scrooge's water and muriatic mixture is right for me, since I don't live in the cold climate he's in. Was thinking whatever setup I come up with would ideally work in a fume hood I can build in my shed, or in a cabinet I can set up outdoors.
I'm thinking I should start by focusing on gold (but not getting rid of any other precious metals I happen to collect) and branching out from there. Whether this remains a pet project forever or grows into a scrap refinery, is fine by me as long as I can learn what I'm actually doing before I waste any of my material on a mistake.

 

[anarxi]

Hello.
It is more practical to start with silver.
It is used to practice referencing skills.
It is easier to work with.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have a lot of e-waste sitting around because I don't want it all to go into a landfill. I'm not new to chemistry, but I wouldn't describe myself as a chemist either, and gold being valuable, I haven't had many chances to experiment with it.
I've seen people dissolving and separating metals quite industriously in their stock pot, and it looks like with some more information on the various mixtures and their pros and cons, I could possibly do the same. I figure it could be a good practice to add to my gauntlet of self sufficiency methods. Hopefully I can find the right solution, pun intended, by lurking on this forum.
Not sure if scrooge's water and muriatic mixture is right for me, since I don't live in the cold climate he's in. Was thinking whatever setup I come up with would ideally work in a fume hood I can build in my shed, or in a cabinet I can set up outdoors.
I'm thinking I should start by focusing on gold (but not getting rid of any other precious metals I happen to collect) and branching out from there. Whether this remains a pet project forever or grows into a scrap refinery, is fine by me as long as I can learn what I'm actually doing before I waste any of my material on a mistake.

Welcome to us.
What is scrooges water?? and muriatic mixture?
It certainly is not any valid chemistry names.
Precision is important in chemistry.

E-waste contains mostly Gold of precious metals but also some Silver and Palladium.

Best place to start for newbies is the plated "fingers" from PCBs.

Here are some material to study:
We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

 

[lokiscarlet]

Welcome to us.
What is scrooges water?? and muriatic mixture?
It certainly is not any valid chemistry names.
Precision is important in chemistry.

E-waste contains mostly Gold of precious metals but also some Silver and Palladium.

Best place to start for newbies is the plated "fingers" from PCBs.

Here are some material to study:
We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

The mixture I mentioned was from ScroogeMcduckn, he had a 1:5 mixture water and store-bought muriatic acid (31.45% hcl) along with a fish tank air pump and/or peroxide for what seemed to be oxygen supply. I figured I'd only halfway mention it since I'm not trying to copy him so much as his method intrigued me as he seems to just leave it alone as he adds the metal sources to it til it's time to filter it out.

 

[Yggdrasil]

The mixture I mentioned was from ScroogeMcduckn, he had a 1:5 mixture water and store-bought muriatic acid (31.45% hcl) along with a fish tank air pump and/or peroxide for what seemed to be oxygen supply. I figured I'd only halfway mention it since I'm not trying to copy him so much as his method intrigued me as he seems to just leave it alone as he adds the metal sources to it til it's time to filter it out.

We do not refer to "invented" chemical names/mixtures here since they are highly local and can be misunderstood.
The HCl/Peroxide is actually a Cupric Chloride etch aka AP and is best done without Peroxide altogether.
Just some corroded Copper, HCl and bubbling air through it.
And what is the Scrooges water?

From your text it seems you are referring to videos.
Videos on Youtube and other platforms are notorious to be everything from directly dangerous to highly inaccurate and very educational.
We have a Video section here with videos that has been verified to be pretty good, at least not dangerous.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...our-visual-learning-members.35185/post-379931

 

[lokiscarlet]

I didn't figure I was inventing any terms, just leaving a name for the source and the components. Scrooge was shorthand for the youtuber's name, there is no "scrooge's water", I think that's a grammatical miscommunication. I referred to him when mentioning the mixture. Seemed sketchy because depending on the sources I check, gold either doesn't react with hcl at all, meaning it'd be a good selective reagent, or it can and that's why he dilutes it a bit more than the concentration he gets it in. In either case, his explanation isn't chemically sound, and any chemists I find are just dissolving gold in aqua regia or cyanide for content.

Thanks for the video list. It helps a lot, because a lot of literature has more fluff than information.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I didn't figure I was inventing any terms, just leaving a name for the source and the components. Scrooge was shorthand for the youtuber's name, there is no "scrooge's water", I think that's a grammatical miscommunication. I referred to him when mentioning the mixture. Seemed sketchy because depending on the sources I check, gold either doesn't react with hcl at all, meaning it'd be a good selective reagent, or it can and that's why he dilutes it a bit more than the concentration he gets it in. In either case, his explanation isn't chemically sound, and any chemists I find are just dissolving gold in aqua regia or cyanide for content.

Thanks for the video list. It helps a lot, because a lot of literature has more fluff than information.

Here is where I got it from:

Not sure if scrooge's water and muriatic mixture is right for me

As you say probably a text error.

And you are right HCl (Not hcl, the case of letters matter in chemistry) alone can not touch Gold.
But if you add a sufficiently strong oxidizer to the HCl it will.
For example Chlorine, Peroxide or Nitric.
Another piece of advice is that the AR(Aqua Regia) we use is not of fixed ratio, we add plenty HCl and then add Nitric in small increments until the Gold is dissolved.
This serves two purposes, some have problems getting hold of Nitric and you will not have the hassle of destroying/deNOxing the liquid after.
One ml of Nitric may under perfect conditions dissolve more than 1gram of Gold in AR.

The fluff in the books may actually be essential information.

In this forum we recommend reading Hokes book several times.
As many members have discovered that the third time is when you really pick up on the depth of information given.

Videos in my eyes are more entertaining then educational since there is a massive amount of things and information that simply can not be conveyed properly within the time frame used for these videos.

 

[nickvc]

I think some further explanation of I have a lot of e waste sitting around means and are you collecting more.
Much e scrap is very low grade by weight, most here separate the high grade materials to refine and pass on the rest to others hen they get enough.
Photographs of what you have may help get you the right advice.

 

[otto]

i have made attempts at recovering metals from e-waste, including gold, but i have also performed a number of more hazardous isolations of metals including mercury from camera batteries, cadmium, Cr (VI) etc and i rate myself as a reasonable chemist. what you are attempting to do is not as easy as it looks, and furthermore the materials you need require knowledge that is often beyond the hints given on YT.
*i am repeating things already mentioned and acknowledge the members who have replied.
so as an example, the throw away line of using an oxidant like chlorine with your HCl, is fine for me, and i would consider that in certain reactions (esp organic), but for you what is not mentioned is that you need to build an apparatus that can safely generate a highly poisonous gas, and then manage the gas without poisoning yourself and the environment. so your personal safety is something you must consider very seriously.
The other observation i must make concerns the cost benefit. to be absolutely frank about it, unless you can get everything you need for basically nothing, you will spend more than you will make. for me in australia, chemicals are restricted in availability and are expensive. i know some chems in US are easier to obtain, but you will still be making an outlay. i have never come anywhere near close to making a profit with e-waste, even with gold; with the possible exception of catalytic converters because of the amount of PGMs present in the small volume of waste. that said, if you want to actually split out all the PGMs, you are in for some hard work. then if you want to sell your gold or platinum, it has to be assayed prior to agreeing on price, so you cannot just wonder down to the bank and cash it in or sell on ebay as gold
if you want to try you hand at extracting gold or silver, i would consider getting some cheap scrap jewelry, maybe from a second hand store. at least you will get something for your efforts

 

[Yggdrasil]

i have made attempts at recovering metals from e-waste, including gold, but i have also performed a number of more hazardous isolations of metals including mercury from camera batteries, cadmium, Cr (VI) etc and i rate myself as a reasonable chemist. what you are attempting to do is not as easy as it looks, and furthermore the materials you need require knowledge that is often beyond the hints given on YT.
*i am repeating things already mentioned and acknowledge the members who have replied.
so as an example, the throw away line of using an oxidant like chlorine with your HCl, is fine for me, and i would consider that in certain reactions (esp organic), but for you what is not mentioned is that you need to build an apparatus that can safely generate a highly poisonous gas, and then manage the gas without poisoning yourself and the environment. so your personal safety is something you must consider very seriously.
The other observation i must make concerns the cost benefit. to be absolutely frank about it, unless you can get everything you need for basically nothing, you will spend more than you will make. for me in australia, chemicals are restricted in availability and are expensive. i know some chems in US are easier to obtain, but you will still be making an outlay. i have never come anywhere near close to making a profit with e-waste, even with gold; with the possible exception of catalytic converters because of the amount of PGMs present in the small volume of waste. that said, if you want to actually split out all the PGMs, you are in for some hard work. then if you want to sell your gold or platinum, it has to be assayed prior to agreeing on price, so you cannot just wonder down to the bank and cash it in or sell on ebay as gold
if you want to try you hand at extracting gold or silver, i would consider getting some cheap scrap jewelry, maybe from a second hand store. at least you will get something for your efforts

The mention of Chlorine was mainly directed to Bleach or pool Chlorine as source, since generating it will be outside the scope for most.

 

[otto]

chlorine has its many uses in chem, but yes i agree its not for the novice. i chose that as an example of the complexities of the task at hand. a facebook reel or youtube does not impart all that one needs to understand to remain safe, is more my point. happy oxidizing!