Non-Chemical Anoyone familiar with this type of torch?

[macfixer01]

Thought somebody may find this useful... I came across a series of gold recovery demo videos on Youtube last night (Not Mine). There is no speech but they appear to be made by someone in Thailand to drive traffic to his website for selling some overpriced eBooks. In any case, this video shows him dropping gold from solution then drying it and melting it. At about the 2:50 mark he lights his torch but from the chuffing sound I'm guessing that he's using a foot operated bellows instead of an oxygen tank? This seems an interesting idea since you'd only be paying for propane or acetylene but save the cost of the oxygen tank and refills? Although I think I'd motorize the bellows and add a reservoir and regulator to smooth out the flow (not to mention saving a leg cramp). It seems like this wouldn't get as hot as an actual oxy-acetylene or oxy-propane torch since it's just compressed air at 21% oxygen content and not actually nearly pure oxygen like a tank would supply? It seems to be doing the job ok though. What do you all think, worth it or not?

macfixer01


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-4pmf2utfs&list=UUVGdbxWqjKTCa8oGVNDtdpg&feature=share&index=13[/youtube]

 

[GotTheBug]

I think that setup would waste more fuel than the savings of not using an O2 bottle. It does seem like an air/propane setup, and though it looks like it worked ok I can't imagine the values he's losing with his process. Seemed like he dropped SMB while it was fuming NOX to start with, though I'm sure Harold or Steve would know for sure. Nice cone mold from oil sand though. Lol.

 

[Smack]

Wonder how much the foot bump was, can't find one on ebay, that's a must have for me.

 

[Pantherlikher]

Based on the uniform pumping sound;
I'd venture a guess that it's a motorized bellows that pressurizes a fuel tank. (edited here) Like an older camping lantern that uses fuel.
As soon as the pumping stopped, you can see the flame go out.

Maybe it pumps air through the tubing dragging flamable fumes of some kind through the tube.

Extremely dangerous but I have, (gulp), experimented with this back in my junk yard days. Gas as a liquid or fumes without O2 are not flamable.
You need O2 as part of the mix to get burn. You can get some big booms when O2 & gas is pushed toward a flame. Or a very nice slow heating burn from a sand bottomed 55gal drum with 1 gal of gas. Just watch out for that first spark.

O, the video;
This kind of video is why we have so many newbies comming to us with a mess in hand and wanting to know why it's not working.
Way to many mistakes and missed steps.

B.S.
... Don't ask me about Oxy/acetatyne torches...

 

[Irons]

Thought somebody may find this useful... I came across a series of gold recovery demo videos on Youtube last night (Not Mine). There is no speech but they appear to be made by someone in Thailand to drive traffic to his website for selling some overpriced eBooks. In any case, this video shows him dropping gold from solution then drying it and melting it. At about the 2:50 mark he lights his torch but from the chuffing sound I'm guessing that he's using a foot operated bellows instead of an oxygen tank? This seems an interesting idea since you'd only be paying for propane or acetylene but save the cost of the oxygen tank and refills? Although I think I'd motorize the bellows and add a reservoir and regulator to smooth out the flow (not to mention saving a leg cramp). It seems like this wouldn't get as hot as an actual oxy-acetylene or oxy-propane torch since it's just compressed air at 21% oxygen content and not actually nearly pure oxygen like a tank would supply? It seems to be doing the job ok though. What do you all think, worth it or not?

macfixer01


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-4pmf2utfs&list=UUVGdbxWqjKTCa8oGVNDtdpg&feature=share&index=13[/youtube]

Blowpipe Torch:

http://www.ottofrei.com/German-Blowpipe-Torch-For-Air-Propane-With-Hose-and-Mouthpiece.html
Fancy version. These have been in use for a long time.

 

[Justincase]

The gold smiths in Florence use an open flame from a spirit burner and blow through a small glass pipe.
The result is a tiny blue flame that come's out of the main orange flame of the spirit burner.
They use it to solder and shape extremely intricate jewelery and religious icons.
That was what was used before any one worked out how to compress gases.
They still use the technique as they say that it is the most accurate way to work as even the slightest mistake with over heating can spoil a piece that has taken week's to put together.
Pin point accuracy and it is only as hot as you blow out so very controlled.I used it on some delicate basing and it was spot on.

 

[Irons]

Yup, Using a Charcoal Block, Alcohol Lamp, thin glass tube and Flux to do bead Tests on mineral samples. Done many of those. The flame gets really hot.

 

[macfixer01]

Wonder how much the foot bump was, can't find one on ebay, that's a must have for me.

I don't necessarily see why this would be dangerous? It appears to be a standard torch head with separate tubes for oxygen and fuel gas coming in, so I don't believe the air and gas are mixing prior to going through the torch head?

Since it was off camera I was just assuming something like a fireplace bellows, but maybe foot operated to keep his hands free? I don't think the pacing was that regular that it was motorized as someone suggested, but it could have been. I noticed in a later video of his that he was using a heat gun to remove processor pins instead of the alcohol lamp he used in an earlier video, and in another video was surprised to see he was using an induction heater to melt his gold instead of a torch. So maybe his tooling and techniques just improved over time as some cash started to be made? This one may have just been an early video of his. Certainly nobody WANTS to work with stone knives and bear skins if they don't have to, but we have members all over the world in all different situations and economic conditions.

Smack, if you're serious I have seen foot-operated emergency tire pumps before meant to throw into the trunk of your car in case of a flat tire. I don't know what volume of air they supply per pump though, and if it would be sufficient to do any good? Maybe check a local auto parts store. I guess if someone were really serious about trying oxy-propane though they'd just use a small air compressor?

 

[macfixer01]

Smack, I searched Ebay for Foot Air Pump, and here are the first two auctions that came up. One is a plastic bellows type and the other a little more rugged looking cylinder type pump. Same types I've seen at auto parts stores before.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131153289582
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261420278461

regards,
macfixer01

 

[Smack]

lol, not at all serious.

 

[pgms4me]

Afish tank airpump like used in a copper chloride bubbler works just fine for this.

 

[Palladium]

http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=blow+torch&isNewKw=1&_pgn=1&epp=24&itemId=&isRefine=true&mfs=SBCLK&acimp=0&sqp=blow+torch&trksid=p2056088.m2428.l1313.TR10.TRC1.Xblow+torch

 

[Justincase]

I would set it up like a bagpipe.
Have a large reservoir made of an air tight bag in a small drum with a large weight on it.
The output hole and hose to the torch would create a bottle neck and control the flow of air(a small valve would make it more adjustable)
Use a larger bellows type foot pump to fill the large Bag as needed.
Much like the continues drone from the Bagpipes you would get a nice continues flame from your torch.
As the torch is set up to run from the pressure from a human diaphragm it would work best if you used an organic method that simulates that air supply.

 

[Irons]

As far as the gas supply is concerned, I have found that the Propane regulator from a BBQ grill drops the pressure down to around a Psi, which would work great in this application. I use the low-pressure gas to run Fisher burners that were setup for Natural Gas.

 

[John Gross]

Hi I own one of these ,
I live and work in China , they are used by gold smiths every where , run on liquid fuel foot bellows , dirt cheap , the whole torch , bellows , hoses and brass storage tank costs a $10.00 - no joke , if you want a photo or two contact me,Mine I haven't used yet , I want to go and see a Chinese gold smith I know and get him to run me through it with a demo using mine, I know the chap so I think he will show me , I have seen him use his doing alterations to some of my wife's jewellery over the years and it gets up to temperature quickly and he controls the heat finely with the bellows .