Anyone know how the Shor Simplicity System works?

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bswartzwelder said:
h hutch1945, I have just reread your post and feel you may have made a mistake or two on your usage. According to the information I have, you hook the positive wire to the gold anode and the carbon rod is connected to the negative terminal of your battery charger. The polarity of the connections is critical to the proper operation of any electrolytic cell. Another point is that the gold does not stay in the pouch, but dissolves and goes into solution in the electrolyte and then has to be precipitated with SMB or some other precipitating agent. If I'm wrong, Palladium can point us both in the right direction as he has had some positive results using this cell.
you are right on how you hook the battery charger its been awhile since I have used it, but I did have it hooked right when I used it, the ceramic cell has a pouch inside it and the gold is supposed to stay in the pouch on the small batches you can either use a small batch with this system or you can do a large batch, on the large the gold does go into the solution the small batch stays in the pouch, I seen another post that he was having trouble melting his gold I had the same problem, not even sure it was gold, im certainly not a expert on refining but I did everything I could to produce gold called shor several times for instructions which they were very helpful in trying to help, maybe I will give it another try later. sorry for the wrong instructions
 
After having studied the Shor system, you put the gold to be deplated in the pouch. It's called an anode bag and the anode is connected to the positive terminal of your power supply. In industry, an anode bag is used to catch slimes or mud which come off the anode. In this system, you put their "catalyst" into the anode bag and the the anode bag keeps the catalyst in close proximity to the anode until power is turned on and electrolysis begins. For this system, the amount of catalyst needed is approximately one part per million of the total amount of electrolyte. Once electrolysis begins, the catalyst is no longer needed and the reaction will continue to happen as long as the power is on or until all the gold has been deplated. That's why the amperage drops off once the gold has been deplated. The cathode in the Shor Simplicity cell is a carbon rod which is connected to the negative terminal of your power supply. In reality, the bag is used to keep the gold being deplated together in a clump and is very porous. The ceramic cup is also porous with specifically sized pores. The pores are less than 0.5 microns and greater than 0.005 microns. The cell will work with the anode inside the cup (and cathode outside the cup) for small batches and the cathode inside the cup (and the anode outside the cup) for large batches. Either way, the gold is deplated and goes into solution in the electrolyte in the same side of the cup as the anode. However, the gold cannot pass through the porous cup because of the small size of the pores and the relatively large size of the gold atoms. Another interesting feature is the electrolyte can only hold a specific amount of gold. If you put too much gold inside the cup (as in a small batch), there will be too much gold and the electrolyte inside the cup will become saturated. It is much more difficult to saturate the electrolyte if the anode is outside of the cup because there may be up to almost a gallon of electrolyte outside of the cup. This much electrolyte could possibly contain almost an ounce of gold. Regardless of where you place the anode, the solution it is sitting in (either inside the cup or outside the cup) is where your gold will end up. Without the porous cup, the gold would still deplate off the items connected to the anode, but would then replate back onto the cathode and your gold would still be stuck on one of the electrodes in the tank. The porous cup keeps this from happening. Now, once you have operated the cell, and the gold has been deplated from whatever is was originally on, it is now in solution and must be precipitated with your choice of precipitating agents. You can take two Q-tips, dip one in the anode electrolyte and dip the other one in the cathode electrolyte. Put a drop of fresh stannous chloride on each and a dark reaction will show you exactly where your gold is. If I have made any mistakes, I welcome corrections because I, like everyone else on this forum want to understand what we are doing to the best of my ability.
 
I have a simplicity you have to melt whatever you are going to refine into a ingot then solder a piece of copper wire to it, then use a electronic grade silicone sealant to cover the naked wire, you add this to the ceramic cell with the pouch inside add the catalyst after the battery charger is hooked up, you can refine 5 oz before you have to change the g s salt in the cell you can do a total of 30 oz before you change the solution in the tank, it is supposed to run between 10 and 20 amps at this rate it is supposed to dissolve an oz per hour, the trouble I had was keeping the ingot on the copper wire the salt solution would eat through the silicone and it would drop into the bag, also I could never get the amps above 5 amps on any computer scrap, I know some people have had some success with this unit but not me I filled mine with the salt solution and stored it away. hope this helps have one to sell if you are interested.
 
I received my Coorstek cups last night and if all goes well, I plan to try my first deplating batch by sometime this weekend. Need good thoughts from everyone here.
 
I'm pretty sure (no pun intended) That the chemicals used in in the Shor simplicity system are as follows :- The GC salt is ammonium chloride, the catalyst is Sodium Chlorite and the odor free gold recovery salt is sodium sulfite. I don't had any examples of their salts to test, but I do remember reading that the catalyst had to be handled carefully because it can cause a fire if it comes in contact with organic material, and this would defiantly indicate a chlorite salt. The ammonium in the chloride GC salt would dissolve any silver chloride that developed on the ingot and allow the unit to run for hours without needing to be cleaned. Lastly, sodium sulfite and Iron sulfate will drop Au out of a solution as well SO2 gas does, but with a lot less trouble. However FeSO4 is green and the Shor simplicity are white. If you have examples of the salts then test them. For example, if the GC salt IS ammonium chloride it will drop Pt out of an cold AR solution as Platinum yellow salt. If you don't have some extra Pt just laying around, then NH4Cl will give off Ammonia as a gas, if its exposed to a few drops of lye solution. Love to know any results you get. Anyway, that my fifty cents worth, Kiwi Bruce
 
I AM NO EXPERT on the Shor Simplicity System, but I feel almost certain the GC salt is ammonium chloride with non iodized table salt mixed in. The catalyst is most likely hydrogen peroxide or sodium peroxide. Somewhere, it also uses a very small amount of hydrogen peroxide or sodium carbonate. I think that you can use almost any common precipitant to drop your gold such as SMB.
 
Gold scrap from the jewelry industry can contain a fair amount of copper. 14 kt, for example, is only 58% gold the rest of the alloy can by copper, silver, nickel, palladium and some of the old white gold alloys contained 10% iridium or osmium to harden them. The brown color of the gold chloride in the PM "cell" of the Shor simplicity would be masked by the color of the green copper chloride and the ammonium silver chloride, which is a bright blue color. In this type of pregnant liquor the gold will drop cleanly with SMB, sodium sulfite, Iron sulfide or SO2 gas. As long as the pH stays on the plus side (alkali) the silver won't drop. Any of the platinum sister metals will by captured in the little muslin bag. You can't rely on color to determine what values you may have. Test all the solutions before you get rid of them. Ammonia does not like to release it's metals easily, even after a long hard boil, you may still have PM's trapped. Kiwi Bruce
 
Palladium

Good description of the Chlor-Alkali cell, which is, of course, a chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide generator. I'm curious, if chlorine gas is introduced to water and dissolves to become hypochlorous acid (or a mix of hypochlorite and hypochlorous acid, dependent on pH) and hydrochloric acid, do you think some of the chlorine made at the anode in this cell is becoming hypochlorous acid prior to its decomposing the anode? The reason I ask is that it seems there is a potential for a build up of HCl on the anode side with a subsequent lowering of pH that might require adjustment. Of course, once the pH dropped below 5, it would be impossible for chlorine to go into solution. Whether this would be good, bad or indifferent is hard to say.

In some ways, this cell is similar to a description I found of a unit in use in the gold mining industry in the 1890's, prior to the large scale abandonment of chlorine leaching in the early 1900's in favour of cyanide leaching. The main difference here is that the dissolving of gold is done in a separate revolving tank and the pregnant liquor is brought back to the cell. The gold is separated from the chloride there by electrolysis and falls to the bottom of the cell at the cathode, not plating out on the cathode as some believe may happen. The liberated chlorine then dissolves in the brine water to become hypochlorous acid/sodium hypochlorite again and is returned to dissolve more gold.

The most interesting thing in this description is the exclusion of all air from the revolving cylinder where the actual leaching occurs. Another version of this process actually pressurizes the same cylinder to 60 psi for the duration of the leaching process. The reason for this is the hypochlorous acid (HOCl) is very unstable, wanting to lose the oxygen atom and become hydrogen chloride (HCl). This will lower the pH of the solution to the point where it is so acidic ( - pH 5), chlorine gas will be liberated and oxides of base metals in ore (iron, copper) will be broken up and the base metals go into solution. My experience with chlorinating water systems shows me that chlorinated water (sodium hypochlorite/hypochlorous acid) will maintain a level of free chlorine for many days as long as that water is in a pressurized pipe. As soon as that water is poured into an open container at atmospheric pressure, the breakdown of hypochlorous acid proceeds very quickly (two hours at most) and does not stop until all of the sodium hypochlorite is converted to hypochlorous acid and that is converted to hydrochloric acid and oxygen.



Electrolytic Precipitation of Gold

In order to perform the electrolytic precipitation of gold, from the filtration vessel the gold chloride solution was conducted into the outer or battery jar of an electrolytic cell. The electrode of the outer cell was connected with the negative pole of a dynamo and the electrode on the inner cell was connected with positive pole or terminal of the dynamo. The gold solution was sent into the jar near the bottom and slowly circulated upwards, and at the same time a current of electricity was passes through the cell. When the reaction was produced, the gold chloride was decomposed and felt like a shower of fine spangles to the bottom, while the liberated chlorine passed into the inner cell where it was absorbed by the water circulating and formed a chlorine solution.

The receiver was charged with chlorine solution generated by the electrolysis of salt. The unit comprised a battery, a conductor from the electrode in the large battery jar to the negative pole of the electrical generator, the conductor from the electrode in the porous cell to the positive pole of the generator, a reservoir containing a saturated solution of sodium chloride, which passed to the battery through a pipe and a reservoir containing water connected by a pipe with a porous cell.

In order to treat the ore more effectually with the chlorine solution it was advantageous to expel the air from the chlorinator. For this purpose the chlorinator was provided with a valve, so that the air contained in the chlorinator passed out as the chlorine solution passed in. the valve was closed immediately the air was expelled. The chlorinator after disconnected was slowly revolved by means of a pulley and strap from an engine, or in other suitable way until the gold was dissolved as a gold chloride. The time required for treatment in the chlorinator varied from one to two hours according to the characteristics of the gold ore treated. The ore and solution were discharged into a suitable filtration vessel placed beneath the chlorinator. The vessel was a shallow vat constructed of oak or other material, the lower part was made cone-shaped and of the same capacity of the chlorinator.

The vat was closed by a cover bolted down. In the center of the cover there was hopper-shaped inlet for receiving the ore and solution from the chlorinator. A perforated diaphragm covered with asbestos cloth, over which was advantageously placed a layer of other suitable filtration media such as ground asbestos, which was fixed from one to two inches below the top of the vat. The gold chloride was washed out of the ore by a stream of water from a tank. The water entered the vat through a pipe at the lowest part and percolated upwards through the ore until the gold content in the solution was extremely low. It was important to take samples of the solution to determine the presence of gold. A sliding door in the bottom of the vat was opened and the residue from the ore as discharged by means of a large outlet opened into a truck placed underneath.

The gold chloride and water descended through a pipe into a receiver and was conducted from the receiver into the outer or battery jar of the electrolytic cell. The gold solution flowed into and entered the jar at the bottom and slowly circulated upwards and at the same time a current of electricity was passé through the cell to reduce and precipitate gold from the solution into a perfectly pure state, upon the bottom of the jar, from where it was removed. The chlorine was liberated at the same time at the electrode in the inner or porous cell and in contact with the water circulating and formed a chlorine solution, which was sent to receiver vessel.
 
Here is an article from the Australian Town and Country (NSW: 1870-1907) dated Saturday, Jan. 31, 1891. It describes a process almost identical to the process described in my last post. The chlorine, in this case, is produced by adding dilute sulphuric acid to sodium chloride or chloride of lime (calcium hypochlorite). When dissolved in water, the chlorine gas again makes a "chlorine solution" which is, of course, hypochlorous acid.

While they again use a lead lined iron cylinder tightly sealed for the process, they do not attempt to displace all of the air in the cylinder or pressurize to 60 psi as in the other two processes I described. Rather, ground ore and water are first added to the cylinder and then sulphuric acid and chloride of lime, at which point the cylinder is tightly sealed. It is assumed the resultant production of excess chlorine gas will elevate the air pressure inside of the cylinder to a level at which hypochlorous acid cannot lose its oxygen atom and stabilizes.




Chlorination. I
The chlorination process of extracting gold from its matrix, and from from concentrates, is often freely alluded to in newspapers and amongst miners; and yet, as a rule, the principle is but vaguely understood, even by men who make mining their business. Our explanation will be principally for persons who understand but little, if anything, of chemistry. To the scientific man the great affinity of chlorine for the precious metals has been known almost ever since the distinguished German chemist, Schule, first discovered chlorine, about the year 1774. Chlorine, then, is an element, that is a simple substance, out of which nothing can be produced but itself, chlorine. It is a gas, and has many remarkable properties- bleaching almost all colored substances, and being very heavy as compared with common air, and being also very deleterious to breathe. It is largely consumed by man and the lower animals in food as common salt, which contains a little more than half of pure chlorine. It conies into use in mining in consequence chiefly of its great affinity or liking for gold and silver. If it can get sufficiently near it will seize hold of them, appropriating a certain portion to itself, making what is called chloride of gold ot silver. It being so abundant in nature, salt being so common, it is made cheaply-a little dilute sul- phuric acid put on salt liberates chlorine gas, and its attraction for silver can be witnessed by the curious any day in the Sydney Mint by watching the chlorine gas being put into the bottom of the molten gold in the pot, and as it bubbles up to top seeing it seize hold of the silver, carrying it to the top of the gold as a chloride of silver. In using chlorine to extract gold you simply crush the stone or matrix so fine that it can get at the gold and take hold of it as a chloride. The easiest way to do this is to put the chlorine in solution in water, and so powerful is its action on gold that it dissolves that metal, holding it in solution as water holds sugar. There is no difficulty in making a solution of chlorine, as at ordinary temperatures water dissolves about twice its volume of chlorine. Thus then having liberated the gold from the stone by crushing, and having made chlorine gas, as can be done cheaply, say from common salt, and having passed the chlorine so made through water, and thus made a solution of chlorine, and bringing it and the crushed stone together, in a short time you have your chlorine solution, containing all the gold in solution that was in the crushed stone. Having then the auriferous chlorine solution decanted or run off from the sludge or crushed stone or pyrites, you put something into it which will deposit or throw down the gold. Either one of two things, both of them very cheap and easily obtained, will do this effectuality, viz., a solution of sulphate of iron, common green vitrol, or pieces of common wood charcoal. The first will throw all the gold down as a powder; the other, wood charcoal, will take to itself the gold out of the solution as a brown film, and upon the charcoal being burned away the pure gold remains. This is the rationale or reason of what is called the chlorination process, and any person of ordinary capacity, upon reflecting upon the foregoing, will not fail to comprehend the method used through the aid of certain machinery, which we will presently describe. It may help to understand this subject if we remind the reader that each of the three chief processes of extracting gold from its matrix or stone or pyritous matter consists in bringing it into contact with some substance which has so great an affinity or liking for it that it is taken up or amalgamated, and then the amalgamating substance got rid of or the gold taken from it. Thus in the common stamper battery or grinding mill mercury is the amalgamating material, as all miners know, which takes up the gold. In smelting, matter containing gold is put by intense heat, often assisted by fluxes of various kinds, into a state of fusion, and then brought in contact with molten lead, which, like mercury, has an intense affinity for gold, and it is thus extracted-the lead in the one case and the mercury in the other being ultimately taken from the gold by evaporation, or as regards the lead by cupellation, which is in effect evaporation. As regards the third great process, viz., extracting by chlorine, we have explained upon what principle that is carried out, being, in fact, like the other two, merely making use of a substance which, by its great affinity, will seize hold of the gold and collect it, so to speak.
Of the three processes, the crushing and amalgamating with mercury, the smelting and amalgamating with lead, and the crushing and absorption by a solution of chlorine, each is suitable according to the way the gold is found in the stone or auriferous material. Rich pyrites or black sand, or concentrates, require smelting as a rule, because all the grinding, to whatever degree of fineness it may be carried, will not liberate all the gold from the iron and metals, so that mercury can act on it. Again, crushing by stampers or grinding in mills will be suitable where much of the gold is fairly coarse, and, as it is called, free in the stone. Arid chlorination comes in and is useful where gold is free in the stone, but is so very fine that in crushing in the ordinary way the mercury can't take hold of it but is carried away in the sludge or tailings. Chlorination also is useful in extracting the precious metal from concentrates, though in this case it may be found more suitable to sell them to the smelting works than to treat them by chlorine at the mine.
Having thus described what may be termed the principles of chlorination, we now describe the appliances by which they are carried into effect. First, the stone is crushed dry, arid, as in the case of the iron-clad reef at Cargo where chlorination is carried on, by heavy steel rollers driven by steam power. Next the crushed stone is calcined in an ordinary reverberatory calcining furnace to eliminate all the sulphur and arsenic which it is advisable to get rid of before treatment by chlorine. Then the calcined crushed stone is put into a large iron barrel about 8 ft long by about 3 ft in diameter and lined with lead, because chlorine acts powerfully on iron as it does on gold and silver, but will not touch lead.

On page 25

A sufficient quantity of water is put in the barrel to make a thin sludge, then a quantity of chloride lime-that stuff much used as a disinfectant, and which is simply common lime saturated with chlorine gas-is put to the sludge, and upon that a small quantity of sulphuric acid. The barrel is then closed down air-tight, and made to
revolve very slowly. The acid acting on the lime evolves the chlorine, which is taken up by the water, and the chlorine solution takes up the gold in the stone. After some hours of the barrel revolving, the whole contents are turned out into a cask or receptacle and allowed to settle. The clear liquor is then drawn off, and made to pass through a cask or vessel partly packed with common wood charcoal, which, as the auriferous chlorine solution passes through it, takes the gold
to itself; and upon the charcoal being burned away, say in an iron pot, the pure gold remains. This, then, is the chlorination process, which, we think; our readers-even those quite unacquainted with chemistry-will clearly comprehend. Whether this process, admirable as it is in many cases, should be used at any particular gold mine is a
question for serious consideration. As a rule, the stamper battery and amalgamation with mercury and concentrating the pyrites is the best. In
some cases, however, such as the celebrated Mount Morgan stone, chlorination is of the greatest advantage on account chiefly of the extreme fineness of much of the gold.
 
I found this patent on line. I'm not sure whether it is the Shor system or not, but it sounds like what has been described so far. Interesting how silver is turned into a soluble substance, gold is retained in an anode bag as a slime and the anode and cathode are separated by a semi-permeable membrane.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4895626/description.html
 
On the left, it lists Peter Shor as the inventor. He also has a number of other patents. Many of them are interesting reading.
 
If you follow one of the links you see that he got two patents... this is the second.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5269912/description.html

Both should have expired today.

Göran
 
If you google patent US4612093 you can also find another one of Peter Shors patents. They list the chemicals used by actual chemical name and not some cryptic code name. For a long time, I was afraid to say much about anything I found in these patents on the forum for fear of violating some kind of patent rights or infringement. However, having said that, everything that has been said about the Shor system seems to be in the public realm of knowledge easily found with a few searches on the Internet. Isn't teknologie fantastic? (technology was misspelled on purpose) Also, when you find one patent, many times it leads to a previous patent and what changes were incorporated into the newer patent. Happy searching and reading. The mysteries have been solved.
 
bswartzwelder. Looked up the patent US4612093 very interesting. Good call on the sodium peroxide as the catalyst.
Note to Traveller11, I worked for a firm in Maryland that processes very large amounts of PM's for DuPont. They use tanked chlorine gas to dissolve palladium. They have boron-glass reactors that are shaped like kids crayons, point down, 20 inches across and 20 foot tall. They have a heating jacket at the base. They are filled with HCl when the Pd is loaded. Don't remember the exact amount but it was more than a couple of pounds of metal. There was a bubble stone in the pointy tip of the reactor and the gas is let in when the HCl reached temperature. I feel there is a very serious drawback to this system. Sometimes, not very often, but sometimes, the palladium will superheat and when it "goes" it throws the metal, acid and chlorine gas out, like a mini volcano, all over the place. This happened the first day I worked there, I saw the wall of green gas and ran. Out in the parking lot the guy who was running in dissolve came over and said with a smile " I'm glad you where running or you would have had my foot prints right up your back!" Fun with Chemistry starting day one! Kiwi Bruce
 
Good thing you knew the green gas was not something you would want to stop and smell. One of my grandfathers was gassed by the Germans in World War I. I was told that he lost one entire lung and part of the other one as a result. All things considered, he seemed to cope very well and never once did I ever hear him complain. He lived to a ripe old age and smoked Camel cigarettes (like a fiend) almost to the day he died. Cancer eventually got him. No way to tell if it was the gas or the cigarettes. Really doesn't matter much at this point. Aside from his smoking, I would like to think I have inherited a lot of his traits. He was a good man.
 
bswartzwelder,

How did your tests of the Shor 'system' turn out?
I'm really interested in finding out if the Gold came out at the .99+ they claim it will.

I've got a new, unused but filthy, Shor system sitting here that I got in a package deal for a furnace, and have
been leery about trying it out;

after seeing Palladium's drawing, I really like the idea of the disposable filter and the separate 'tanks', because
of my wife's objections to running Aqua Regia here. If this would consistently refine Au to .995, I'm a player.

Cheers,

Mike
 
Mike,

I didn't use the Shor cell because of the price and the small amount of gold I had to process. The first thing I ever saw (or read about) after I collected some processors and foils was the Shor chemical methods. I followed their instructions to a "TEE", but never got any visible gold out of that solution. After chemical additions, the liquid eventually turned a milky white/light green in color. I didn't realize at that time that all the gold I had was probably too small to be seen unaided. Not knowing what I was doing, I got rid of the solution in an irresponsible manner. I regret that decision and wouldn't consider doing things that way again.
 
Palladium,

After having a couple of days to think about it, I think your 2-tank Shor antidote is absolutely brilliant,
especially the disposable filters part.

Once again I feel compelled to say that the amount of innovation that happens in this forum is just staggering!

A question: you ran 2 horizontal pipes with disposable filters?

Did you use circular or square tanks?

Also, did you assay the Au from it, and if so, what did it assay out at?

Many thanks,

Cheers,

Mike
 

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