Can only get coral like silver crystals
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Two other factors to consider, moving or stirring the electrolyte so it doesn't run out of silver locally at the crystal. And temperature, that can have a large effect on crystal growth. Higher temperature should increase the mobility of the silver ions and give larger crystals.
I'm purely speaking as a physicist, my limited experience with silver cells goes back 30 years. My first trial gave me a couple of really nice dagger formed crystals up to 2-3 cm and a needle sharp tip. Seeing how easy it was I melted it down to a pure silver button and I have never managed to get those sharp crystals again. :lol:
Göran
I'm purely speaking as a physicist, my limited experience with silver cells goes back 30 years. My first trial gave me a couple of really nice dagger formed crystals up to 2-3 cm and a needle sharp tip. Seeing how easy it was I melted it down to a pure silver button and I have never managed to get those sharp crystals again. :lol:
Göran
Nachocucu
Member
Palladium said:
you have complicated things to a whole new level for me :lol: :lol:
I read your thread about this and saw your video (I think, because it is not seen anymore in the thread, so I looked it up on youtube). Is "Aquilla Refining" your channel?
I think I understood at least the basic idea and I am already thinking how to use it to my advantage and in some experiments. But I think this is still far for me yet.
Nacho
Nachocucu
Member
Quick review of progress:
The test with the circular plate cathode was interesting. Everything Kurt said would happen, happened. There was growth of larger crystals on the edges of the cathode and a more even and slow growth on the center. But there came a point that everything started to grow a little uncontrollably and only crystals in the form of coral grew. I think this is related to the size of my jar. here is a picture
I decided to start the next test. Using the ring shaped cathode that gave me the best results so far. But, using a more concentrated electrolyte. Until now I have experimented with 150g of silver per liter and now I will use 250g per liter. I then took a 100cc sample of all the used electrolyte I had and cemented the silver to find the actual concentration. Then I boiled everything to the desired concentration and prepared only the amount of new electrolyte that I needed to complete my bottle (750cc).
I turned on the power supply and set it to 1 volt, 0.6 amps. A few minutes later I had a family emergency and I had to come to my girlfriend's city, that was yesterday afternoon. I left the cell working, I think that just tonight I will be able to know how it goes.
Nacho
The test with the circular plate cathode was interesting. Everything Kurt said would happen, happened. There was growth of larger crystals on the edges of the cathode and a more even and slow growth on the center. But there came a point that everything started to grow a little uncontrollably and only crystals in the form of coral grew. I think this is related to the size of my jar. here is a picture
I decided to start the next test. Using the ring shaped cathode that gave me the best results so far. But, using a more concentrated electrolyte. Until now I have experimented with 150g of silver per liter and now I will use 250g per liter. I then took a 100cc sample of all the used electrolyte I had and cemented the silver to find the actual concentration. Then I boiled everything to the desired concentration and prepared only the amount of new electrolyte that I needed to complete my bottle (750cc).
I turned on the power supply and set it to 1 volt, 0.6 amps. A few minutes later I had a family emergency and I had to come to my girlfriend's city, that was yesterday afternoon. I left the cell working, I think that just tonight I will be able to know how it goes.
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
Nacho, i just read in another post that glass can break from the force of growing silver crystals if they get too thick inside the glass.
Put the cell in a catch basin in case of a spill.
Put the cell in a catch basin in case of a spill.
Nachocucu
Member
Martijn said:
I read that to!!! I think that is if your glass is really narrow, but doesn't hurt to be careful.
How's your rake cathode comming along? I want to see!
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
Slow but steady @ 1.03Volt. Taking the time to grow slowly.
Nachocucu
Member
Martijn said:
Really tight crystals Martijn! Looking very promisisng
things here are starting to look good too. Look at this crystal! I'm so tempted to get it out of the cell already
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
That's a real beauty growing there!! Can't wait to see how it will go!
This is with the 250g/l silver concentration?
I raised the voltage to 2 volts for a couple of hours yesterday and crysrals started branching out from the biggest ones real fast.
Set it back to 1 volt and left it there to thicken.
This is with the 250g/l silver concentration?
I raised the voltage to 2 volts for a couple of hours yesterday and crysrals started branching out from the biggest ones real fast.
Set it back to 1 volt and left it there to thicken.
Nachocucu
Member
Martijn said:
Exactly, it is 250g/l
yesterday I got home from work and this was the progress. That larger crystal grew until it touched the other side of the jar and then another branch began to grow as the main one. I couldn't help myself and scooped out the large crystal with a couple of ss forks. while rinsing it, all the secondary branches fell off. Here are some photos, unfortunately I am a bad photographer and the photos do not live up to how it really looks.
What caught my attention was the weight, 5.2g. I thought it would weigh at least 10gr, I imagine it is because of the crystalline structure. Another much smaller crystal also came out, it has a very striking shape like an arrowhead.
I leave the cell running again at 1v / 0.65a
Something that I had not mentioned before, I placed a neodymium magnet at the base of the jar, opposite to where the cathode cable is. As you can see in the photos. I did this because Palladium caught my attention and I wanted to see if there was any effect.
The cell back to work
of course, my girlfriend is already the owner of both crystals
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
Nice crystal!
I'm surprised to see so many fine coral grew in that little time.
And this was at 1 volt? Wow!
Mine has not grown in length after setting back to 1 volt and is forming a lot bigger reflecting crystal faces. Small, but getting bigger slowly. I'm trying to avoid the rapid feather and coral growth. Going for clean clusters of terminated fatties.
I'll leave it at this setting.
Here is a short video on you tube. A picture does not really show the beauty of how it's branched off and getting thicker.
https://youtu.be/AAyFz2hxBCE
I'm surprised to see so many fine coral grew in that little time.
And this was at 1 volt? Wow!
Mine has not grown in length after setting back to 1 volt and is forming a lot bigger reflecting crystal faces. Small, but getting bigger slowly. I'm trying to avoid the rapid feather and coral growth. Going for clean clusters of terminated fatties.
I'll leave it at this setting.
Here is a short video on you tube. A picture does not really show the beauty of how it's branched off and getting thicker.
https://youtu.be/AAyFz2hxBCE
Nachocucu
Member
Martijn said:
I am surprised by the same. That crystal grew in 48 hours and there are many crystals like corals growing non stop. The cell was always working at around 1 volt and 0.65 amps, I expected a much slower and more compact growth, like yours. I'm going to start over and set the voltage as low as I can to see what happens.
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
I bumped into the leads to the cell. The tallest ones fell off
The terminated crystals were going the right way i think.
The small crystal is about 15mm long.
Oh well, more room for the remaining ones to grow... :roll:
Back in the cell.
Some pried apart.
The terminated crystals were going the right way i think.
The small crystal is about 15mm long.
Oh well, more room for the remaining ones to grow... :roll:
Back in the cell.
Some pried apart.
Nachocucu
Member
Wow Martijn those crystals are really beautiful and compact.
It really intrigues me why only a few large crystals grow in my cell and the rest are all very fine, the usual corals.
Since I reset the cell yesterday I have set the voltage to 0,2 and the amperage is 0,07.
With these parameters, and the electrolyte fairly concentrated, I would expect to see crystals more similar to yours. But this morning I only found that they are growing as always super fine, very slow of course, but very fine.
Nacho
It really intrigues me why only a few large crystals grow in my cell and the rest are all very fine, the usual corals.
Since I reset the cell yesterday I have set the voltage to 0,2 and the amperage is 0,07.
With these parameters, and the electrolyte fairly concentrated, I would expect to see crystals more similar to yours. But this morning I only found that they are growing as always super fine, very slow of course, but very fine.
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
Nacho, thanks. They are just millimeters long though. Already back in the basket.
They looked really big under the microscope. just could not get a nice frame to make a picture with it.
In your cell i think the high concentration must be what's causing such growth at 0.2Volt.
I read in another thread that the concentration will level itself out if too low or too high. So that might just be the 'excess' silver coming out.
I suggest lowering the concentration to just below the recommended level and watch the first crystals grow at 2 volt and turn it down when there are some crystals pointing up.
You could go for long crystals and then try to get them fatter, both ways are worth trying.
In my cell it seems that the coral formed with high voltage is, at 1 volt fusing together with some crystals coming out further and getting nice facets.
The one still left standing in my cell has all the room it needs to grow now. And it's getting crystals on all sides. Hope it won't fall over when it gets heavier.
Martijn.
They looked really big under the microscope.
just could not get a nice frame to make a picture with it. In your cell i think the high concentration must be what's causing such growth at 0.2Volt.
I read in another thread that the concentration will level itself out if too low or too high. So that might just be the 'excess' silver coming out.
I suggest lowering the concentration to just below the recommended level and watch the first crystals grow at 2 volt and turn it down when there are some crystals pointing up.
You could go for long crystals and then try to get them fatter, both ways are worth trying.
In my cell it seems that the coral formed with high voltage is, at 1 volt fusing together with some crystals coming out further and getting nice facets.
The one still left standing in my cell has all the room it needs to grow now. And it's getting crystals on all sides. Hope it won't fall over when it gets heavier.
Martijn.
Nachocucu
Member
Martijn said:
Thanks for the advice! It really challenges me to understand what is happening.
Since I last reset my cell, I have been testing different voltages from 0.2 to 3.5 with the same electrolyte that I used last time (surely a little less concentrated than 250g). It helped me to confirm that the best parameters for this configuration are around 0.7 amps to grow large crystals. Below that and the crystals grow like corals and above they grow in branches, getting thinner the higher the voltage / amperage.
I've run out of nitric acid and gas to melt the cemented silver I have. I'm going to have to wait until next week to start a new experiment (I want to try 350g / liter). Then I would like to build a similar cell but 5 liters (with much less concentrated electrolyte because I don't have so much silver), let's see what happens.
Here I leave a photo of how the cell is at this moment. Sorry not to post much this week, I've been really busy at work, my manager is on vacation and I'm replacing her.
Nacho
Martijn
Well-known member
To save on nitric in stead of making new nitrate every time, you could keep track of what's going in and what's coming out. The 'missing' silver is in solution.
And with your highly pure silver the contamination will stay the same.
My one crystal left standing grew out to a bigger branch at the same voltage, i guess due to the lack of other peaks to divide the current over. So I turned it down to 0.5 volts.
A bit more spongy growth and some really small terminated ones in between. I will run it like this and see how it goes.
And with your highly pure silver the contamination will stay the same.
My one crystal left standing grew out to a bigger branch at the same voltage, i guess due to the lack of other peaks to divide the current over. So I turned it down to 0.5 volts.
A bit more spongy growth and some really small terminated ones in between. I will run it like this and see how it goes.
Martijn
Well-known member
Progress!!
In my cell, most of the fatter crystals appear just beneath the tree tops. So to speak.
Good growth all over each branch.
Nice pointy one popping up in the center. There are more hidden deeper away and hard to get on camera. I can see the reflecting surfaces getting sharp and bigger every day.
Still very slow at 0.5 volt
In my cell, most of the fatter crystals appear just beneath the tree tops. So to speak.
Good growth all over each branch.
Nice pointy one popping up in the center. There are more hidden deeper away and hard to get on camera. I can see the reflecting surfaces getting sharp and bigger every day.
Still very slow at 0.5 volt
stella polaris
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2018
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As Göran pointed out earlier you should perhaps have some movement in the liquid. A very gently heating in the bottom could solve this. No need to go over 50 degree c in the liquid. You still get thermal movements in your bowl.
