Clean Copper from CuCl2 - while process went wrong

[butcher]

The only question remains unanswered what is the exact formula when converting CuCl to metallic copper with Fe and H2SO4?

Actually it may be hard to write the formula as several things are going on in solution at once.
this is one way i believe the reaction could go.

CuCl + 2Fe + H2SO4 --> see reactions below
first:
CuCl + H2SO4 (H2O) --> CuSO4 + 2HCL + (H3O)
then:
Fe + 2HCl --> FeCL2 + H2(g)
then:
CuSO4 + Fe --> Cu + FeSO4
leaving you with
Cu + FeCL2 + FeSO4

 

[solar_plasma]

Working with CuCl is hassle,

Not so for butcher! :lol: He is a real copper chloride magician! *like*

 

[Platdigger]

This just lends more credence to the dilute sulfuric H2O2 process that was shot down here recently.
I mean hey...no copper chloride at all to mess with. Ever.
And I believe copper chloride in solution is more poisonous than copper sulfate, is it not?
I mean how often do you even find copper chloride in nature?
Are not sulfide deposits of copper the most common?
I for one still think the German guy could have a good point. Or process.
And nice find Alentia.

 

[rickbb]

I don't get it. How can something that is likely to explode in your face if you do it wrong be less hassle than something that's un-likely to explode in your face if you do it wrong?

Granted either method could do damage IF you do them wrongly, but from a relative stand point an HCL method is far safer that any sulfuric process.

At least from my humble and inexperienced viewpoint.

 

[butcher]

Copper salts are toxic, whether copper chloride or copper sulfate.
What make them problems in waste are not only their toxicity, but also the fact that they can be transferred in water, or are water-soluble where they can get into the water supply.

The argument that copper sulfate would be less dangerous than copper chloride, because copper sulfide ore is common, is a mute point, first of all sulfide's have such a low solubility, and it is the water solubility that make these copper salts toxic to humans.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/cuso4tech.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pimg002.htm




Copper sulfate solubility:
Pentahydrate
316 g/L (0 °C)
2033 g/L (100 °C)
Anhydrous
243 g/L (0 °C)
320 g/L (20 °C)
618 g/L (60 °C)
1140 g/L (100 °C)

Copper chloride solubility:
CuCl 4.1g/cm3
(1.72 x 10-7)

CuCl2 75g/100ml

Copper sulfide is pretty much insoluble.
(8 x 10-37)



As far as which process is best to dissolve copper well that can be up to personal debate, and choice, and can also be up to what the goal is, and why, and what the byproducts of the reaction are, or how it can negatively affect what we are trying to accomplish, what you may think is better I might not agree.
I want go into this further If you like the process and it works well for you, and can be done safely then use it.

As far as this topic here goes this was an aqua regia leach on CPU's, so you cannot compare the problems with this and the proper use of the copper II chloride leach, and make a ploy that the dissolving copper in dilute sulfuric acid process would be better, based on the problems with working with aqua regia as a recovery method. It just does not make sense to make that comparison.

 

[lazersteve]

For the record, CuCl2 is water soluble:

1079 g per liter of water @ 100C

Steve

 

[Alentia]

For the record, CuCl2 is water soluble:

1079 g per liter of water @ 100C

Steve

Steve,

You mean CuCl (white/grey powder)? If so, it is awesome!

 

[chlaurite]

Copper really doesn't pose as much of a risk to humans as you might think, as long as you take basic safety precautions. Our bodies have evolved to deal with fairly high background levels of copper in our food and our water. EPA sets a limit of 1.3mg/L as safe - And while that doesn't sound like a lot, lead has a limit 100x lower; benzene, berrylium, and mercury 1000x lower; and at the other end of the scale, glyphosate (roundup, just about the safest herbicide known to man) has half the safe limit of copper and cyanide comes in as safe at only 1/10th the allowable level of copper.

That said, I did mention basic safety precautions. Most people don't regularly encounter copper concentrations of 100+g/L, and getting just a bit on your fingers and then eating lunch can expose you to much, much larger doses than what I just described. Fortunately, the same basic precautions you use for acids should protect you from the actual metals we deal with - Wear gloves and goggles, know how to properly remove gloves (pinch just above each wrist with the other hand and pull gently with a slight twist, and you have both gloves inside out and nested inside each other), wash your hands after taking off your gloves, and don't keep food or drinks anywhere near your work area.

You mean CuCl (white/grey powder)? If so, it is awesome!

CuCl counts as very nearly water insoluble. Steve said, and meant, CuCl2

 

[Alentia]

You mean CuCl (white/grey powder)? If so, it is awesome!

CuCl counts as very nearly water insoluble. Steve said, and meant, CuCl2

Pardon me (title is wrong)... my understanding CuCl2 is already solved in HCl, what else to solve there? Adding water to CuCl2 solution will precipitate CuCl.

 

[Anonymous]

Copper really doesn't pose as much of a risk to humans as you might think, as long as you take basic safety precautions.

I can only speak from the perspective of living in the UK but here the focus for Copper is the impact on the environment. You can get into an awful lot of trouble disposing of copper compounds down your drains.

 

[solar_plasma]

disposing of copper compounds down your drains.

I hope nobody disposes his copper down the drains! For the first this would be irresponsible, second: it is forbidden in all "civilized" countries, third: copper spot is at 7$.

 

[Anonymous]

The referral to drains was in the context of the solubility of some of the compounds Solar, over others and the later comment that seemed to point at the safety concern of copper was to humans.

I agree completely that people shouldn't throw it down the drain, but since copper is at $7 - I'll hang on to mine for a little longer. It'll go up again it always does.

Better than throwing it down the drain :twisted: :twisted:

 

[chlaurite]

I see where we misunderstood each other - No, I in no way mean to imply that you should just flush copper salts. :shock:

I mistook the discussion as concern over toxicity in the sense of poisoning oneself, rather than toxicity to the environment in general. We agree completely.

 

[solar_plasma]

Then copper is not the biggest problem. Nickel and cobalt are cancerogen by contact to skin or by inhaling aersoles. Aerosoles will always occur when it is bubbling or if dried to powders. This has to be considered and prevented.

 

[Anonymous]

Were we discussing Nickel and Cobalt or shall we stay on point here?

 

[chlaurite]

Were we discussing Nickel and Cobalt or shall we stay on point here?

In fairness, it counts as a valid concern. Most of the AP we do actually consumes as much (if not more) nickel as it does copper. Cobalt, though not a major player in our reactions of interest, does occur quite frequently in various electronics alloys.

We may only care about the PMs, copper, and ferrous metals, but we can't just ignore the presence of the rest. :mrgreen:

 

[butcher]

Good point many time with electronic scrap we can have a real soup of toxic metal solution, thank goodness we have a way to deal with this found in our dealing with waste section under the safety section.

 

[solar_plasma]

Were we discussing Nickel and Cobalt or shall we stay on point here?

Almost everything in e-scrap looking silverish is copper-nickel-alloy.
Gold plating in e-scrap has often if not always a nickel layer between copper and gold.
Kovar pins from cpus: 29% nickel, 17%cobalt.

And I am even not leaving the point here, when I mention beryllium bronce from sockets, contacts and relais (1-2% Be).


Those are quite scaring metals, when they are in the form of powder, dust or aerosole or if they can get contact to unprotected skin, - especially if repeatedly over a long period. Pure copper is of no bigger concern for me, but scrap must be considered as never pure.

Maybe the hazmat rule number one: If you do not exactly know, what you have: Handle it as if the maximum credible hazard is given!

 

[niteliteone]

Maybe the hazmat rule number one: If you do not exactly know, what you have: Handle it as if the maximum credible hazard is given!

As it should always be when working with toxic chemicals and processes, like we do here.