Concentrated nitric acid substitute

[Karion89]

Hello everyone, it’s a pleasure to be part of the community. I can see the ranges of extensive knowledge between the members in this group. Im a fast learner and ready to absorbs the knowledge passed down from the seasoned refiners. I’m new to the forum, and the rare art of precious metals refining. I’ve done my fair share of research before even trying to attempt my first refining. I’ve chosen gold filled jewelry for my first material to attempt to refine. Incineration, incineration, incineration, before anything else. It’s burned into the memory bank. I’m here to ask the community and seasoned professionals, for an alternative to nitric acid. Nitric acid isn’t an issue for me to get ahold of. But the price has me at a standstill. I’m not at the point, to buy large quantities of nitric to use for aqua regia and base metal dissolving. I already have 2L of concentrated nitric to use For aqua regia. But looking for a cheaper alternative for dissolving base metals, from gold filled scrap. I’ve seen Geo videos on the poor man’s nitric, using sulfuric acid and nitrate salts in e-scrap. But didn’t know if it was a viable source of acid for good filled scrap. I’m looking for an affective and affordable poor man’s nitric recipe. Im sitting here as a sponge, ready to take in all the answers from the wise. Thank you for your time and answers in advance. It’s feels great to be part of something, so many few, know nothing about, or are willing to try and learn about. The willingness to learn, and the knowledge of those who’ve learned, and passed down, is a great since of gratitude and appreciation. Thanks again for everything

 

[Shark]

How many grams of gold filled can be processed in 2L of nitric acid?

The best answer I have is “enough to be well worth the cost of the nitric acid.

It also eliminates many headaches involved with work around/make do methods. If you still want to try other ways you can look into AP, copper ll chloride, poormans nitric acid, home made nitric acid. All will work but all will pose problems that can be avoided by out right buying nitric. Even with the work around methods often it cost more to use them than quality nitric acid.

Unless you have a fair amount of experience just use nitric it saves time, money and often a lot of headaches.

A gallon of 68% nitric will easily process a couple thousand dollar’s worth of gold from gold filled. Being stingy at that point is plain greedy.

 

[Rreyes097]

I just recently used poor man's nitric to do gold filled. But I wasn't able to recover the silver. I probably could have but I didn't really think there was enough to recover. But I think the pmn was the best way to do it cheaply. But I think nitric is the best and more efficient way

 

[Karion89]

How many grams of gold filled can be processed in 2L of nitric acid?

The best answer I have is “enough to be well worth the cost of the nitric acid.

It also eliminates many headaches involved with work around/make do methods. If you still want to try other ways you can look into AP, copper ll chloride, poormans nitric acid, home made nitric acid. All will work but all will pose problems that can be avoided by out right buying nitric. Even with the work around methods often it cost more to use them than quality nitric acid.

Unless you have a fair amount of experience just use nitric it saves time, money and often a lot of headaches.

A gallon of 68% nitric will easily process a couple thousand dollar’s worth of gold from gold filled. Being stingy at that point is plain greedy.

That is really the best answer I could ask for. Simple and straightforward. Nitric for the win!!

 

[Shark]

I have used or tried every work around method I could find over the past 10 or so years. Some work better than others but each has its own quirks. Even a stripping cell can work but leaves a tiny bit of gold behind. It can also be cheaper to use cost wise but the trade off is using a more dangerous acid to handle in the process. With nitric acid the gold can be recovered quickly and more efficiently at a cost that is still profitable. If you want to try these other methods, use a small sample batch for a test run. Don’t sink your whole working capital into an unknown method. The board is covered in “help I screwed up” posts. A great many of them have some very solid advice, well worth reading once the thread gets going with sound advice. There is much to be learned from the mistakes of others. Of coarse the board is here to help out when needed.

Good luck. And don’t forget to have fun with it as well.

 

[Karion89]

Thanks for the great advice guys, it’s much appreciated. I’ll update you guys when I’m ready for my first refining.

 

[Tomcat]

Im about to try that Nitric Acid substitute they sell on Ebay. It comes in pellets and you mix it with distilled. What category is this stuff filed under? What should I expect in this experiment? And is it best for the reaction to get it hot, to boil it, or let it react at room temperature?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Im about to try that Nitric Acid substitute they sell on Ebay. It comes in pellets and you mix it with distilled. What category is this stuff filed under? What should I expect in this experiment? And is it best for the reaction to get it hot, to boil it, or let it react at room temperature?

Way too little info.
Do you have a MSDS?

 

[Martijn]

Im about to try that Nitric Acid substitute they sell on Ebay. It comes in pellets and you mix it with distilled. What category is this stuff filed under? What should I expect in this experiment? And is it best for the reaction to get it hot, to boil it, or let it react at room temperature?

Ask the supplier, if he won't provide the information, it's a scam.
Ebay = uncontrolled sales, uncontrolled quality. There are gems amongst the trash, but be carefull.
If the manufacturer is shady about the ingredients, it probably is a very simple mix you can make yourself for a fraction of the costs. Again, a scam. Do not buy!!!

 

[Martijn]

Im about to try that Nitric Acid substitute they sell on Ebay. It comes in pellets and you mix it with distilled. What category is this stuff filed under? What should I expect in this experiment? And is it best for the reaction to get it hot, to boil it, or let it react at room temperature?

It is best you set your plans aside for a while and study a bit more. Then try whatever you want on a very small amount to get acquainted with rections. Like Hoke describes in her book.
Your question indicates you still have much to learn.

 

[Tomcat]

I notice people on here like to reply with a lack of information just speaking in generalities to take some higher position when they know nothing about the process they are commenting on.

 

[Tomcat]

Way too little info.
Do you have a MSDS?

Oh okay boss. You might want to get one of those yourself btw. You told a user to pour nitric into a plastic bottle.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Oh okay boss. You might want to get one of those yourself btw. You told a user to pour nitric into a plastic bottle.

Interesting, can you point me to the offending post?

Anyway, without telling us what it is, we can not help you.
You are not telling us which product it is, which producer or even the name of the product.
So how are we going to advice on this, do you think?

 

[galenrog]

Im about to try that Nitric Acid substitute they sell on Ebay. It comes in pellets and you mix it with distilled. What category is this stuff filed under? What should I expect in this experiment? And is it best for the reaction to get it hot, to boil it, or let it react at room temperature?

What is the product name? Is the seller providing an MSDS prior to the sale?

Many pelletized nitric acid substitutes sold on EBay are nothing more than nitrate based fertilizers. It would be very helpful to know what you are considering.

Time for more coffee.

 

[eaglekeeper]

Im about to try that Nitric Acid substitute they sell on Ebay. It comes in pellets and you mix it with distilled.

I've never heard of making nitric from a dry reagent by just adding water...Are you sure it's not some form of CN (cyanide) leeching agent. I've never used CN for anything so I don't know the full preparation of it for use.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I've never heard of making nitric from a dry reagent by just adding water...Are you sure it's not some form of CN (cyanide) leeching agent. I've never used CN for anything so I don't know the full preparation of it for use.

All we can do is to speculate until he discloses the name or and the producer.
Anyway, until then we do not get further down this road.

 

[Martijn]

I notice people on here like to reply with a lack of information just speaking in generalities to take some higher position when they know nothing about the process they are commenting on.

Well you're clearly looking for a 'poor mans nitric', as we call it here, which will act as nitric and i do know how nitric acts cold and hot, and I do know not to boil a reaction in refining metals. Hence my comment.
Have you read:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...imple-question-and-get-a-simple-answer.21412/
I stand by my point: if the manufacturer or supplier does not provide a manual and product info, do not buy it!
There is a cheaper way. Buy the ingredients yourself for a fraction of the price. The ingredients and processes are discussed here on the GRF in detail.

And: what product are you talking about? Do you have a link?

Please change the tone of your replies. We like to keep things polite and civilized here.

Martijn.

 

[Martijn]

Interesting, can you point me to the offending post?

Anyway, without telling us what it is, we can not help you.
You are not telling us which product it is, which producer or even the name of the product.
So how are we going to advice on this, do you think?

I believe it was this one:

I would have expected a brown bottle, but it is supposed to be used within reasonable time anyway.

It is as bad or benign as any other acids we use.
Probably worse than HCl and better than Sulfuric with regard to biologic reactions like burns and such.
Depending on strength, it will fume a bit to much and those fumes should be avoided.
Keep the bottle safe so it don't fall down and break, maybe pour into another plastic bottle for daily/weekly use.
And use it in a well ventilated area or fume hood. Be aware that the NOx fumes are as bad as the direct fumes from the bottle.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I believe it was this one:

Ok, out of context as expected.
Nitric can be stored in most any plastic for short term storage, not ideal but acceptable.
I bought mine in a 20L black plastic drum, so it obviously depends on the quality of the plastic used.

 

[vgecas]

I have bought and am storing nitric in HDPE container for more than 5 years now - it just works. Though, there are some plastics, that corrode in contact with concentrated nitric. For example - do not use nylon mesh to filter concentrated acids.