Concentrated vinegar technology
- Thread starter Patry0t
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Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
Since you posted the information, we'll allow you the honor.Patry0t said:
Dave
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I spoke about using this to strip clean P C B s, got wiped off here.
Was using it to take off solder, but I went farther.
I do not go after the gold with it, I am going after the copper under the gold.
AP system with air coil I made, leaves gold foils nice and clean.
But slow, very slow, so found ways to speed it up.
Lots of copper to recover in the end also.
Now go at just exposed gold, leave the rest of the trace in place.
I have dreamed of this.
But this acid concentrated is a Deadly.
You should see the reaction at high concentration,wow.
I am going the next step now that I am able to work again.
Will report back findings.
Was using it to take off solder, but I went farther.
I do not go after the gold with it, I am going after the copper under the gold.
AP system with air coil I made, leaves gold foils nice and clean.
But slow, very slow, so found ways to speed it up.
Lots of copper to recover in the end also.
Now go at just exposed gold, leave the rest of the trace in place.
I have dreamed of this.
But this acid concentrated is a Deadly.
You should see the reaction at high concentration,wow.
I am going the next step now that I am able to work again.
Will report back findings.
ZombieScrapper
Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2016
- Messages
- 10
I've watched this video a few times in the past. Even left a response. No description really just a look at my magic formula kind of video. Doesn't or didn't answer comments (but haven't looked lately) thought it was kinda neat being as its from university of Saskatchewan up here in my country, but seems a little fishy to me some how. Idk, would be nice to have a simple and safe method though.
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It is a patent for liquid-liquid extraction of gold and palladium at the same time from an acidic solution.hkhogold said:
Göran
don't wanted to write another post about it. Just another university claiming a new and eco-friendly way to extract gold from e-waste. I will post it here:
http://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2016/gold-from-phones-becomes-real-prospect
We should watch what happens next.
Edit:
I found the article too, but we have to pay to read it..
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201606113/abstract
http://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2016/gold-from-phones-becomes-real-prospect
We should watch what happens next.
Edit:
I found the article too, but we have to pay to read it..
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201606113/abstract
Geo
Well-known member
When it trickles down to the hobbyist refiner, let me know. There was a time when you had to pay for a college degree (or two) to get the knowledge I have gotten from this forum alone for free. As long as people want to keep their magic water secret, I'll stick with tried and true.
Topher_osAUrus
Well-known member
Geo said:
+1 times 1000000
Universities want money to come in to keep on keep'n on...
Pretty easy to do that if people think you have found the magic bullet, eh?
bemate
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- Sep 23, 2016
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Patry0t said:
Figured I would start off in here by contributing: The article is attached as a pdf, but it doesn't provide much except a structural formula. They consistently call the compund L, but the structure makes it possible to identify it. It's been way too long since I took my organic chemistry courses for me to bother trying to find its proper IUPAC name, and that will only provide so much anyway. Those of you in here with more experience can have a look and see if it provides something new, though I doubt it...
B
Vinegar is effectively acetic acid with processing contaminants.
Acetic acid is the solvent for metals in the TCLP environmental test for metal solubility and mobility.
Acetic acid on its own will not dissolve gold.
Careful reading of the blurbs indicates that the process is yet another academic effort to get or maintain funding by publishing articles.
Note the use of phrases like "with the minor addition of some other chemicals" which indicates that these additions are what the author considered to be minor, not what prospective users might consider minor.
The most likely scenario is that the acetic acid is used to dissolve base metals away from the gold and so prevent them either limiting the gold solvent's access to the gold or, by forming acetate complexes with the base metals, putting them in a soluble form where they will not react with other reagents used in the process.
The actual gold solvent used is not revealed in the articles.
The reagent 'L" is a primary amine used for recovery of the gold from the solution, think a version of organic extraction.
As a primary amine it will only accept gold complexes when it is protonated which means it has to operate in acid conditions.
Vinegar is an acid solution so the amine will efficiently adsorb gold complexes from these solutions.
The amine has absolutely no role to play in the dissolving of the gold in the first place, it is there purely as a recovery agent.
Deano
Acetic acid is the solvent for metals in the TCLP environmental test for metal solubility and mobility.
Acetic acid on its own will not dissolve gold.
Careful reading of the blurbs indicates that the process is yet another academic effort to get or maintain funding by publishing articles.
Note the use of phrases like "with the minor addition of some other chemicals" which indicates that these additions are what the author considered to be minor, not what prospective users might consider minor.
The most likely scenario is that the acetic acid is used to dissolve base metals away from the gold and so prevent them either limiting the gold solvent's access to the gold or, by forming acetate complexes with the base metals, putting them in a soluble form where they will not react with other reagents used in the process.
The actual gold solvent used is not revealed in the articles.
The reagent 'L" is a primary amine used for recovery of the gold from the solution, think a version of organic extraction.
As a primary amine it will only accept gold complexes when it is protonated which means it has to operate in acid conditions.
Vinegar is an acid solution so the amine will efficiently adsorb gold complexes from these solutions.
The amine has absolutely no role to play in the dissolving of the gold in the first place, it is there purely as a recovery agent.
Deano
Hiwa's article "Gold Leaching in Organic Solvents: Simple and Milde Reaction Conditions for Fast Gold Dissolution" is avaliable in http://libgen.io/ in full. Just search for it.
However they used THF but Acetic acid could be used. I have seen a poster claiming by one of the team they used Acetic acid, HCL, H2O2 and CaCl2 for palladium at high rates. Maybe a clue maybe not....
However they used THF but Acetic acid could be used. I have seen a poster claiming by one of the team they used Acetic acid, HCL, H2O2 and CaCl2 for palladium at high rates. Maybe a clue maybe not....
That paper describes measuring the gold dissolving speed with HCl and H2O2 mixed in different organic solvents. It's a purely academic work to compare some different organic solvents and it can give some clues about how it exactly works, but for practical refining work I don't see any application.pp2kr said:
The reaction was measured on gold powder without any other solid substances or metals present.
The process of dissolving gold with hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide is well known and I have used it myself sometimes. The only thing worth noting is that more than 1M HCl and 0.2M H2O2 doesn't speed up the process. The speed were also compared to cyanide, aqua regia and a number of other solvents. There were also some references that could be worth following up on.
Göran
http://artsandscience.usask.ca/chemistry/news/article.php?articleid=573
In the second process, a comprehensive set of water-miscible organic solvents including small amounts of HCl, CaCl2 and some oxidizing reagents were used as new leaching systems for gold. Among all studied solvents, acetic acid provided the highest gold dissolution rates reported to date. Along with an unmatched gold dissolution rate, this new leaching system was also highly selective for gold over base metals such that in the case of electronic scraps, more than 99% of gold was extracted from printed circuit boards (PCBs) in less than 20 seconds (which is the fastest known gold recycling process from e-waste ever reported) while less than 1.5% of nickel, 0.3% of copper, and 0.05% of all of the other base and heavy metals were leached during the same contact time. This new discovery promises to replace highly hazardous chemicals commonly used for gold recovery and opens new opportunities into the field of gold extraction for future studies
Maybe, maybe....the key is the oxidant....who's know?
In the second process, a comprehensive set of water-miscible organic solvents including small amounts of HCl, CaCl2 and some oxidizing reagents were used as new leaching systems for gold. Among all studied solvents, acetic acid provided the highest gold dissolution rates reported to date. Along with an unmatched gold dissolution rate, this new leaching system was also highly selective for gold over base metals such that in the case of electronic scraps, more than 99% of gold was extracted from printed circuit boards (PCBs) in less than 20 seconds (which is the fastest known gold recycling process from e-waste ever reported) while less than 1.5% of nickel, 0.3% of copper, and 0.05% of all of the other base and heavy metals were leached during the same contact time. This new discovery promises to replace highly hazardous chemicals commonly used for gold recovery and opens new opportunities into the field of gold extraction for future studies
Maybe, maybe....the key is the oxidant....who's know?
bemate
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I took a closer look at this today, and one word stood out to me: dithiobiuret. They are using derivatives of this compound added to the acidic solution, and my guess is this is the active ingredient in question. Problem is, depending on the specific derivate they use, dithiobiuret is highly toxic, probably because of the various C-S and C-N bonds.
The way I read this is that it's simply a slightly improved version of cyanide leachning for all practical intents and purposes. Still highly toxic, and why their process does not produce waste of the same scale as ordinary cyanide leaching is not clear to me. They do, however, give away very little specific information, likely to protect future patents they are planning, but until we know more it's hard to say anything other than that it seems a bit too good to be true, which it usually is...
The way I read this is that it's simply a slightly improved version of cyanide leachning for all practical intents and purposes. Still highly toxic, and why their process does not produce waste of the same scale as ordinary cyanide leaching is not clear to me. They do, however, give away very little specific information, likely to protect future patents they are planning, but until we know more it's hard to say anything other than that it seems a bit too good to be true, which it usually is...
