Concentrated vinegar technology

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bemate
This is for the first method. He presents two methods: (i) simultaneous leaching and solvent extraction and (ii) gold leaching in acidified water-miscible organic solvents. 8)

I have found a study stating that nickel in insoluble in acetic acid but didn't find much about base metal...
 
It's disappointing to read so many posts on this thread stating how there's nothing new about this process or how tried and true methods are the only way to go and so on. Have you guys watched the video? That's what blew me away... In a matter of seconds, the gold layer on boards was stripped away, leaving the base metals behind. This is HIGHLY selective and FAST, unlike almost all other methods discussed and presented here on hundreds of threads. These guys are not some con artists. They are professors at the University of Saskatchewan for crying out loud. If you haven't watched the video, here it is again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqql-5S8dm4
 
Patry0t said:
23823_en_1b026_10402_university-of-saskatchewan-stephen-foley.jpg


Stephen Foley is looking to get his hands on some gold… the problem is that it takes too much time, costs too much money and harms the environment.

The work of his research team—made up of Loghman Moradi, research associate, and Hiwa Salimi, PhD student— changes all of that.

“We’ve found a simple, cheap and environmentally benign solution that extracts gold in seconds, and can be recycled and reused,” said Foley, an associate professor in the Department of Chemistry. “This could change the gold industry.”

The problem with gold, explained Foley, is that it is one of the least reactive chemical elements, making it difficult to dissolve. That is why “artifacts discovered from 3,000 year ago still have gold on them.”

Given this difficulty, there are two main ways to get gold: through mining gold from the earth, which requires massive amounts of sodium cyanide; and recycling gold from secondary sources like jewelry or electronic scraps.

“The problem with mining has to do with the harsh environmental effects of the toxicity of cyanide that fills tailing ponds,” said Foley. “When one of the ponds breaks, it dumps the cyanide into nearby lakes or rivers and kills the environment.”

Recycling gold from jewelry or electronic scraps—think computer chips and circuits lined with thin layers of gold—is not without issue either.
Annually, Foley explained, the world produces more than 50 million tons of electronic waste per year; that amount is increasing rapidly due to non-stop innovation that shortens the life span of electronic devices.

Because of the lack of suitable recycling methods, he continued, more than 80 per cent of “e-waste” ends up in landfills, making it a pretty serious environmental issue.

There are two current industry standards for removing gold from electronic scraps. The first is pyrometallurgy, which burns the gold off using high temperatures. This method is energy intensive, cost prohibitive and releases dangerous gases, like dioxins.

The second is hydrometallurgy in which leaching chemicals like cyanide solution or aqua regia—Latin for king’s water, which is a mixture of concentrated nitric acid and hydrochloric acid—are used, a process Foley called “expensive, very toxic and completely non-recyclable.
“The environmental effects of current practices can be devastating,” said Foley.

Foley used the city of Guiyu, China, considered the e-waste capital of the world, as an example. Guiyu receives 100,000 tonnes of e-waste per day, and because of unregulated processing, Guiyu has the highest levels of dioxins for any city ever recorded. The result, he continued, is the majority of Guiyu’s residents have some form of neurological damage.

What Foley and his research team discovered is a process that extracts gold efficiently and effectively without any of the downfalls of current industry practices.

“We use one of the most mass-produced chemicals: acetic acid; at five per cent concentration it’s plain table vinegar. We use a minute amount of an acid and an oxidant to finish our solution.”

The solution, he continued, is the greenest solvent next to water, so eliminates the vast number of environmental concerns that come with long standing methods of gold extraction.

In this technique, the gold extraction is done under very mild conditions while the solution dissolves gold with the fastest rate ever recorded. “Gold is stripped out from circuits in about 10 seconds leaving the other metals intact” Foley said.

When time is factored in with lower toxicity and conse*quential effects, this new solution appears to be a natural replacement that could revolutionize the industry.

To highlight the improve*ment Foley’s solution presents, consider that it costs $1,520 to extract one kilogram of gold using aqua regia and results in 5,000 litres of waste. With the U of S solution it costs $66 to produce one kilogram of gold and results in 100 litres of waste that can be reused over again.

The other main advantage over current recycling processes, he continued, is that this specific solution is gold selective, meaning it only dissolves gold not other base metals, like copper, nickel, iron and cobalt, found in printed circuit boards.

“Aqua regia, for example, dissolves everything,” he explained, meaning that once dissolved, the gold still needs to be extracted from the solution and the other metals, and the solution gets saturated very quickly.

The next step for Foley and his team is to move the process into large-scale applications for gold recycling from gold-bearing materials.
By large-scale, Foley means very large.

“To extract three grams of gold from ore, you need one tonne of rock. We are not yet viable on a big scale like that,” he said, adding that to that end they are currently searching for industry partners.

Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqql-5S8dm4

SOURCE

SOURCE2

Any thoughts?
I am by no measure, a 'chemist.' As a prospector of only 5 years, I was told that simple table salt and vineger would clean my gold. It works. I also dabbled with some old organ parts and used vinegar to dissolve the plastic from the values. In retrospect, of the idea, that it could work in the mining industry, it just adds another step too the refining process. In other words if I have a ton of material, with values ranging from copper to iridium/osmium, everything still needs to be processed. Could it work, simply for gold, I would think so. But, then you have some other form of pregnant liquid too deal with. One pregnancy is tuff enuff to deal with[emoji7] If I contemplate the steps. 1 gather values. 2 roast values.
3 separate larger values.
4 assay values for toxics/radioactivity
5 proceed with hydrochloric and nitrics.
6 separate with reagents.
7 forge disiered values.

Using the viniger is only going to extract surface gold, from a prospectors concentrate point of view. Maybe it would be useful to quickly purify an amount of values from concentrate, but then, what is the reagent? I'm a novice; intuitive, but not nearly experienced enough to give guidance or advice....


Sent from my X301 - Locked to Life Wireless using Tapatalk
 
"The other main advantage over current recycling processes, he continued, is that this specific solution is gold selective, meaning it only dissolves gold not other base metals, like copper, nickel, iron and cobalt, found in printed circuit boards."

Doesn't this violate some basic law of chemistry? Wouldn't an acid strong enough to dissolve gold also dissolve everything above it in the reactivity scale?

How can you dissolve gold off a PCB without dissolving the copper it's plated on? I could understand it if it was a time thing, dip in in solutions for an exact amount of time to get the gold off then pull it before the copper starts, but that seems a bit dubious to me.
 
Well, cyanide becomes fairly selective to gold at the right concentrations.
Also this type of thing can happen with the use of certain buffers when using acids.
Perhaps we should ask Deano if thiocyanate would act like this.
 
Thiocyanate reacts with copper to form an insoluble complex, unless you keep removing this layer as it forms there is only am monolayer of copper complexed.

Exactly what they are defining as an acid is the key to their processing.

Vinegar on its own is a relatively mild reagent but will complex with most metals at a slow rate.

My thoughts are that the vinegar is there purely to provide the acid environment in which the actual gold solvent and gold complexes so formed exists.

Vinegar is used probably because of its cheapness.

The actual gold solvent would then be something like selenic acid or similar or a derivative there from.

The cost of these solvents is high so the idea of having a cheap acid set the conditions where the expensive acid and corresponding complexes is stable is fairly obvious.

Adding an oxidiser would speed up the gold leaching rate more than the copper leaching rate, thus justifying the carefully worded claims.

Deano
 
I did some experiments with salt, vinegar, hydrogen peroxide and bleach a while back.
The 'trick' is to maintain the pH in the correct range as the reaction proceeds.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=63606&page=2#pid419451

While a 'correct' balance of ingredients does actually dissolve gold, it is very slow compared to HNO3.

Probably the most useful result was getting the gold foils off RAM fingers with just salt, vinegar and 3% H2O2.

With the foils filtered out and then dissolved normally, this method could save on the costs and dangers of using HCl/HNO3 for every step.

For example, the volume of aqua regia required in the next step (to dissolve the foils) could be much smaller.

The advertised 'magic bullet' solution is probably hookum.
 
Ok, so I did some serious digging round the interwebz...

I found the actual process. while I understand the statements. I am not exactly a pro at the gold side of things, here is hoping that Deano has better perspective.

I am however going to set up and lab this one to see what it looks like results wise.

http://www.rexresearch.com/foleygold/foleygold.html

--L
 
My comments on the leaching side still stand.

All gold leaches require a source of energy and some form of complexant to keep the gold in solution.

The first blurb says that they are using hydrogen peroxide as the energy source and an unknown acid as the complexant.

The actual role of the vinegar is not revealed.

It really has two possibilities, firstly to dissolve base metals cheaply to allow the leach access to the gold, secondly to establish acid conditions cheaply so that a complexant which operates in acid conditions needs only a small amount of this complexant for the conditions to be suitable.

Assuming that the article is totally factual then the complexant is limited to acids which can form complexes with gold.

The obvious first one is hydrochloric acid but the gold complexant part of hydrochloric acid is the chloride. This could be cheaply substituted with common salt, sodium chloride.

As sodium chloride is not mentioned it may have been deliberately left out in the ingredients list.

Assuming that the article has no omissions in the ingredients listings, you are then left with any acid forms of gold complexants as the mystery substance.

This can range from actual single acids such as selenic acid which can dissolve gold to known gold complexants such as iodine in the form of hydroiodic acid etc.

Disappointing as it may seem, there are only new versions of known gold processes being put forward as being new and revolutionary.

Many of these new versions are clever and show good chemistry understanding.

The one thing about all of them is that none have been adopted by industry.

If they were all so good and cheap and robust then they would have replaced cyanide and chloride leaching in the mining and recycling industries.

Deano
 
Deano

They cited HCL and CaCl2...I don't know the CaCl2's roles in the process but should be a starting point(guessing!!!) to look...
 
The only role calcium chloride can play is as a source of chloride ions in place of sodium chloride referenced above.

Deano
 
Deano said:
The only role calcium chloride can play is as a source of chloride ions in place of sodium chloride referenced above.

Deano

Hello,

I am new to this forum and gold extraction, though have been researching the space quite a bit as of recent. The company I work for was approached by a company claiming to have a (green) proprietary acid leach solvent extraction method that has been optimized for to ultra-fine gold extraction applicable to extraction of gold in the mining industry (specifically to fine gold trapped ore tailings).

The company claims their leach solvent is able to recover gold at a 99% purity, and outperforms environmentally hazardous standard methods in the mining industry, like CN extraction used on ore and tailings, in terms of both cost and %recovery (98% recovery stated for trapped ultra fine (ppm) gold in tailings). They also claim the tech to be scalable to industry application, and has already been done by them. Thus going forward I will be attempting to verify this the best I can, and will be evaluating the tech for specifically for application in an e-waste recycling business model (focused upon gold extraction with this tech). So upon receiving verifiable details on the tech's gold %percent recovery (as applicable to e-waste gold extraction), scalability specifics, and a detailed cost-analysis - I will want to run a financial analysis and a critical competitive analysis.

Thus I was wondering if anyone has knowledge of the current processes (both green and not) that are most used and widely accepted as the best method for extracting gold from E-waste based mainly on the endpoint of generating the most profit (thus considering scalability). From my research AR variant procedures seem to be the most widely accepted on the basis of cost and environmental safety - though as mentioned I am new to the space.

Going forward, I am in need of cost and performance spec estimates for current industry optimal and standard methods, as per scale, for extracting gold from e-waste [$/ton of E-waste (for general e-waste and/or PCB waste) and %recovery of gold content and %purity of gold content recovered].

Any insight, information, or even direction to sources of expertise where I can find these answers would be much appreciated. Even rough estimates at small scale would be helpful.

Thank you,

Best,
Mark
 
Below is the fresh patent of Hiwa. I think it's another method. Not acetic acid process. Yet...

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2016168933&recNum=2&maxRec=3&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=ALL%3A%28hiwa+salimi%29&tab=PCTDescription
 
mark.balcorp said:
Going forward, I am in need of cost and performance spec estimates for current industry optimal and standard methods, as per scale, for extracting gold from e-waste [$/ton of E-waste (for general e-waste and/or PCB waste) and %recovery of gold content and %purity of gold content recovered].
I get the impression that you're asking experienced gold refiners for the precise data regarding their efficiency and recovery rates.

If so, it is very unlikely that anyone will answer, as those figures are the basis of their livelihoods.

Your best bet is to take a random sample of the expected scrap for your business model and process it yourself, empirically.

All the details of How that is done can be found on this forum.

That way you will have exact data for each scrap type that your plan encompasses.

There never has been, probably never will be, a Single method for all scrap types.
 
mark.balcorp said:
Thus I was wondering if anyone has knowledge of the current processes (both green and not) that are most used and widely accepted as the best method for extracting gold from E-waste based mainly on the endpoint of generating the most profit (thus considering scalability). From my research AR variant procedures seem to be the most widely accepted on the basis of cost and environmental safety - though as mentioned I am new to the space.

Going forward, I am in need of cost and performance spec estimates for current industry optimal and standard methods, as per scale, for extracting gold from e-waste [$/ton of E-waste (for general e-waste and/or PCB waste) and %recovery of gold content and %purity of gold content recovered].

Any insight, information, or even direction to sources of expertise where I can find these answers would be much appreciated. Even rough estimates at small scale would be helpful.

Mark

Some of us on here do have deals directly with refineries. The knowledge that comes from those costs hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment and experimentation and sampling to learn. My recommendation to you would be to talk to all the refineries applicable to you, compare their rates, get references, and start sending your batches in and in that way you will get your yield data. Don't get hung up on the 1 or 2 percents - get hung up on the overall cost of doing the business because it doesn't matter WHAT they charge if they don't recover all your precious metals......

Jon
 
pp2kr said:
Below is the fresh patent of Hiwa. I think it's another method. Not acetic acid process. Yet...

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2016168933&recNum=2&maxRec=3&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=ALL%3A%28hiwa+salimi%29&tab=PCTDescription

I read over this patent and it does appear to be the process used in the video and news releases. If you look at the tables in the latter section of the patent the solution their using is a 1.5M HCl 0.6M H2O2 and 0.6M CaCL solution in an acetic acid solvent.

I have reproduced this and you can see my results blow:

http://imgur.com/a/dLkba

I used 99.7% glacial acetic acid, 31.45% HCl, 35% H2O2 and CaCl anyhydrous. This was my first attempt at doing this and would like to hear some feedback from some of the other members that have some more chemistry experience.

I have not yet attempted to drop the gold out of solution yet.

As a follow up this is what I did to create a 500mL solution.

1.5M HCl @ 31.45 w/w = 75mL
0.6M H2O2 @ 35 w/w = 20mL
0.6M CaCl = 33g

I added the HCl to 125mL of 99.7% glacial acetic after I added another 125 mL and 20mL H2O2 then diluted the solution to 500mL finally adding the CaCl.

I stirred this for about 5 minutes and noticed the solution rose in temperature to about 35 degrees Celsius. After 10 minutes I added a single ram stick with the flat packs removed and saw the gold leached off within 3 minutes.

If someone would double check my calculations it would be very helpful.

Thanks :)
 
The photo is a bit confusing - is that the foil removal step, or the gold dissolution step ?

As i recall, i did both without GAA, using just 8% OTC vinegar.
 
aga said:
The photo is a bit confusing - is that the foil removal step, or the gold dissolution step ?

As i recall, i did both without GAA, using just 8% OTC vinegar.

The gold foils are removed by directly leaching into solution as this solution is "Gold selective'. Other methods rely on dissolving the metals behind the gold plating to produce the gold foils and leaving the gold as a solid. Does this answer the question?

The patent posted above describes using GAA and H2O and the appear to getting a faster dissolution of gold using less dilute acetic acid.
 
someguy2 said:
1.5M HCl @ 31.45 w/w = 75mL
0.6M H2O2 @ 35 w/w = 20mL
0.6M CaCl = 33g

I added the HCl to 125mL of 99.7% glacial acetic after I added another 125 mL and 20mL H2O2 then diluted the solution to 500mL finally adding the CaCl.

I stirred this for about 5 minutes and noticed the solution rose in temperature to about 35 degrees C.
If someone would double check my calculations it would be very helpful.
For the acid and the peroxide, using w% concentrations and then measuring milli-litres makes no sense.
Use weight when it's concentration is in weight-percent, use volume when it's concentration is in molarity [M]. Need the density to work out the moles otherwise.

The 'recipe' sounds highly dubious if this comes from a Chemistry write-up.

Assuming the density of water, i.e. 1, 75mls of 31.45w% HCl would be 0.65 Moles of HCl.
20ml of 35 w% H2O2 would be 0.206 Moles of H2O2.

Calcium chloride is rarely anhydrous - it needs to be heated to melting point and then cooled in a water-free atmosphere to achieve that. It rips water from the air so well that it will turn to a puddle if left exposed ( i.e. it is deliquescent).

33g of truly anhydrous CaCl2 would be 0.297 Moles.

When it is added to water, the dissolution is exothermic, i.e. it gets hot, same as dissolving NaOH does.
 
Thanks for the feedback Aga, I am new to this whole thing so I do appreciate it.

My 'recipe' could very well be incorrect. I am just reporting on what I did and what the effect was.

In terms of the Molarity and volume used for the HCl could you explain in further detail?

What I did was having a 31.45% 20 baume solution I calculated it was a 10M solution. If I want to add it to the acetic acid to have it at 1.5M for 500ml should I not be adding 75mL?
 

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