I wonder could it be possible to process White gold directly in AR, recover the gold using Ishor storm precipitant and then drop the Pd with copper? I have about 30g of 14k white gold containing Pd and socketed with diamond(about 80) and i'm not shure how I should process it.
concern about white gold being processed in AR
- Thread starter elfixx
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
read Harolds posts on dental gold,
I would shot,inquart,disolve Aqua Regia( >150degrees),deNOx, dilute, decant(Ag), filter,PPt with ferrous sulfate , or SMB, decant,concentrate, then PPt Pd sodium chlorate.
reading through harolds posts can give you an insight, and also get Hokes book.
really it is better to learn about this before trying to do it, I know the temptation to just jump into it without doing all that studying, but if you do you will regret you did, if you really want to learn this and are going to stick with it study first, if you really just want some quick results without the work just sell the material you will get more for it that way, not losing it to dangerous chemicals.
and you can get SMB, or ferrous sulfate cheaper ( or make your own)than the stormy stuff, a common chemical with a huge markup, like people who buy a 50 pound sack of fertilizer cheap repackage it in small bottles call it magic powder to recover gold, and selling it at very high prices.
good luck
I would shot,inquart,disolve Aqua Regia( >150degrees),deNOx, dilute, decant(Ag), filter,PPt with ferrous sulfate , or SMB, decant,concentrate, then PPt Pd sodium chlorate.
reading through harolds posts can give you an insight, and also get Hokes book.
really it is better to learn about this before trying to do it, I know the temptation to just jump into it without doing all that studying, but if you do you will regret you did, if you really want to learn this and are going to stick with it study first, if you really just want some quick results without the work just sell the material you will get more for it that way, not losing it to dangerous chemicals.
and you can get SMB, or ferrous sulfate cheaper ( or make your own)than the stormy stuff, a common chemical with a huge markup, like people who buy a 50 pound sack of fertilizer cheap repackage it in small bottles call it magic powder to recover gold, and selling it at very high prices.
good luck
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 8,360
Are you certain the white gold is alloyed with palladium? While it is used in white gold, nickel used to be far more common.
Unlike gold that is alloyed with silver and copper, white gold can be dissolved directly in AR without any issues---even when it's alloyed with nickel----but you'll have a difficult time achieving an acceptable level of purity because of the high concentration of either nickel or palladium, especially if it does contain palladium. It tends to co-deposit with gold. A second refining will be required, and perhaps even a third. You can judge the results by color in most instances. The gold powder will be a dark brown color if it's contaminated. A rule of thumb is that the ligher the color of the gold powder, the purer it is.
I am speaking from the perspective of using SO2 for gold recovery--although you would enjoy similar results using copperas (ferrous sulfate).
I can't address the Ishor process, not having any experience with any of the procedures-----but you can certainly enjoy success without them. Have you read Hoke?
Once you have recovered the gold from your solution, I would suggest evaporating to concentrate, filtering once again, then precipitating the palladium using ammonium chloride and sodium chlorate. Again, have you read Hoke?
Try to keep in mind-----palladium will NOT precipitate from dilute solutions, nor will you achieve full recovery from somewhat dilute solutions. The higher the degree of cencentration, the better the recovery. Hoke talks about that, too.
When in doubt, Hoke is your friend.
Harold
Unlike gold that is alloyed with silver and copper, white gold can be dissolved directly in AR without any issues---even when it's alloyed with nickel----but you'll have a difficult time achieving an acceptable level of purity because of the high concentration of either nickel or palladium, especially if it does contain palladium. It tends to co-deposit with gold. A second refining will be required, and perhaps even a third. You can judge the results by color in most instances. The gold powder will be a dark brown color if it's contaminated. A rule of thumb is that the ligher the color of the gold powder, the purer it is.
I am speaking from the perspective of using SO2 for gold recovery--although you would enjoy similar results using copperas (ferrous sulfate).
I can't address the Ishor process, not having any experience with any of the procedures-----but you can certainly enjoy success without them. Have you read Hoke?
Once you have recovered the gold from your solution, I would suggest evaporating to concentrate, filtering once again, then precipitating the palladium using ammonium chloride and sodium chlorate. Again, have you read Hoke?
Try to keep in mind-----palladium will NOT precipitate from dilute solutions, nor will you achieve full recovery from somewhat dilute solutions. The higher the degree of cencentration, the better the recovery. Hoke talks about that, too.
When in doubt, Hoke is your friend.
Harold
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 8,360
I'm not sure I can answer that properly. I know that palladium follows gold when precipitating with SO2, even when it's fairly lowly concentrated. It doesn't come down entirely, but some always comes down. I don't know if it's co-precipitated or just being dragged down.Oz said:
I used ferrous sulfate, but only early on. When the increase in volume that accompanies the use of ferrous sulfate became a problem, I immediately switched to SO2 and never again used ferrous sulfate. I do not recall any of my early experiences, so I hesitate to comment aside from venturing a WAG, which, in this case, would be you're probably right. I would certainly encourage experimentation in this case.
Harold
Different precipitating agents have different affinities for the metals. I wrote a post in the Techniques section that is stickied. It discusses SO2 versus oxalic acid.
Not all reductants are made equally.
Not all reductants are made equally.
I have read most of C.M. Hoke work so far and I do understand it prety well. I asked for the use of copper to ppt Pd because i can't seem to get cheap sodium chlorate. I can only get it in 500g bag for 80$ which is realy expensive, maybe you guys could help me find a cheaper source of it.
Just because the white gold isn't magnetic probably doesn't mean that it contains Pd instead of Ni. I don't have a piece of Ni bearing white gold in front of me to test it, but I would guess that it isn't magnetic. Ni is magnetic in its pure form, such as nickel plating. When alloyed, however, it can lose its magnetic properties.
I may be wrong about this, but I have seen other alloys that contain nickel that aren't magnetic.
In the early days, Pd was used widely in white gold. Then, for many years, Ni was used. Recently, due to the focus on Ni allergies, I would imagine that Pd is used more often. However, the bulk of scrap white gold most likely contains Ni and not Pd.
I would try testing it on a touchstone. Make a heavy mark, add a drop of AR and let it work, then add a drop of DMG. A yellow ppt indicates Pd. To test for nickel, do the same thing, except add a couple of drops of ammonia after the AR and before the DMG. If you added enough ammonia to neutralize the AR, a red ppt. indicates Ni.
I may be wrong about this, but I have seen other alloys that contain nickel that aren't magnetic.
In the early days, Pd was used widely in white gold. Then, for many years, Ni was used. Recently, due to the focus on Ni allergies, I would imagine that Pd is used more often. However, the bulk of scrap white gold most likely contains Ni and not Pd.
I would try testing it on a touchstone. Make a heavy mark, add a drop of AR and let it work, then add a drop of DMG. A yellow ppt indicates Pd. To test for nickel, do the same thing, except add a couple of drops of ammonia after the AR and before the DMG. If you added enough ammonia to neutralize the AR, a red ppt. indicates Ni.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 8,360
goldsilverpro said:
That's absolutely correct. 300 series stainless steel is comprised of 8%-12% nickel, along with roughly 68% iron, yet it is not magnetic unless it is work hardened, and then it's only slightly magnetic.
Harold
Try Action Mining in Sandy Oregon, for smaller quantitys of sodium chlorate and some other things you may need, they have a website with catalog, not real cheap but you dont use much of it so it should last a while, a fair source for some supplys.
