Copper Recovery

[Harold_V]

Thanks, Harold.
Is it possible to put the cheapest iron instead of steel?

We may be tripping over terminology here, geubrina. When I say scrap steel, I'm talking about such things as angle iron, channel iron, pretty much any type of fabrication steel. Even rebar will work. Iron, such as cast iron, is not a good choice. The only thing that is important is that the metal not be too rusty. Rusted steel won't work.

I have no experiment nor knowledge at all for smelting the copper ore. Is it just merely increase the heat until the melting point?

If you're talking about copper ore, I'm not able to help. I am not a chemist, nor have I studied metallurgy. My experiences have all come either as a machinist, or as a self taught precious metal refiner.

Extracting copper by fire is likely to be a losing proposition unless you can concentrate the values, you have a rather large furnace, and have means to part the copper afterwards. It will contain all the precious metal values.

The copper that you'd recover from solution, using scrap steel, is elemental copper, but it's finely divided, and often quite dirty, plus it will be well oxidized. It requires considerable fluxing in order for it to flow and agglomerate when melted, but once melted and collected, it's not bad copper. It will contain impurities, so it isn't real good for direct use, but it can surely be sold once cast as an ingot. It's not economical to do here in the States, but only because of high labor costs and the amount of damage the flux does to crucibles. It shortens their useful life tremendously. If you have an economical method of melting, it is definitely worth the trouble.

Regarding my process of the Au and Ag, do you have any better idea?

I had only one experience with gold ores, one that was very high in content. I used a ball mill to crush the ore fine, then ran it with cyanide in an agitation tank. I recovered the values (both gold and silver) using zinc flour. The ore was a complex, requiring the use of bromine, along with cyanide. I achieved an extraction of well over 99%. I hesitate to make any recommendations because that was my only experience, and the process may or may not lend itself to your operation. I am unable to judge if it would, or not.

One thing I am willing to comment on. I don't recall reading a single source of information that recommends the extraction of values from ores using acid. The gangue is typically very destructive of the acids employed, so it becomes quite inefficient. By sharp contrast, if an ore has no cyanicides, a ton of ore can usually be processed using as little as an ounce of sodium or potassium cyanide. It is best used in a very dilute concentration (.01-.02%), where it becomes selective and will dissolve only the values, leaving behind the base metals.

You likely know cyanide is dealy poisonous to animals (including humans), and should not be used unless you are well versed on handling and proper disposal.

You might be well off to find a copy of Rose's book which I recall to be titled The Chemistry of Gold, Sir T.K. Rose. It might prove to be very helpful for you.

Harold

 

[geubrina]

Thanks Harold.

For separating your gold from silver (or vice versa), you do not use acid, either?

I will try to find the book. Is the English difficult to read? English is not my mother tounge.

Anyway, thanks again. I hope there are others who would like to share their experiences with me, for comparison. Learning never end...

 

[Harold_V]

For separating your gold from silver (or vice versa), you do not use acid, either?

Yes, I used nitric acid in all of my refining, but separating silver from gold is a lot different from taking metals out of ores. That's a whole different world----with methods used that often are not remotely related to refining. People that know how to refine may not know the processes of extracting values from ores. They often operate as totally different entities. Depending on the size of an operation, a smelter may well send his yield to a different source for refining.

I will try to find the book. Is the English difficult to read? English is not my mother tounge.

I understand. It might be difficult for someone that doesn't speak English fluently----but the book is likely one of the finest texts written on gold. It is very old----about 100 years old now. It's entirely possible that the book has been printed in your mother language. You might check at one of your local libraries, or higher schools of learning. Universities and colleges are often a source of such books. Being an old text, many of the processes that are discussed are simple to do--there is nothing high tech about the information contained in the book, so it's right down the alley of people that are limited to simple processes. I assume that would be your circumstances. They sure were mine!

Anyway, thanks again. I hope there are others who would like to share their experiences with me, for comparison. Learning never end...

You're very welcome, geubrina. I hope some of this has been helpful.

Harold

 

[Anonymous]

Harold have you checked the price that copper is going for on ebay?
I think that I may have to start casting pretty bars and putting them on
ebay.

11 oz for 13.00 +, plus 15.00 shipping.

 

[Harold_V]

Harold have you checked the price that copper is going for on ebay?
I think that I may have to start casting pretty bars and putting them on
ebay.

11 oz for 13.00 +, plus 15.00 shipping.

I can't be held responsible for morons that have no concept of real value. Anyone that would pay $13 for 11 ounces of copper likely deserves his fate. It's the price you pay for going through life with blinders firmly affixed.

Having worked in the machining industry for the vast majority of my life, I know all too well that a person can go to a supply house and buy electrolytic pure copper, in desirable forms, for far less.

In life, there are options you can exercise as an individual. One of them is to not steal from your neighbors. I choose not to. Selling copper for such prices would make it hard for me to sleep. I've never had to be dishonest to make a living, a fact about which I'm damned proud.

Selling copper at inflated prices isn't in the books for me. Sorry. It's all about the value I place on myself----and the values I try to uphold. Understand, I'm simply speaking for myself. I realize others have different value systems.

Sure is tempting, though! :lol:

Harold

 

[Anonymous]

Harold, gold is no different, it is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

 

[Harold_V]

Yep I agree----But that's not what we're talking about when someone quotes a price of $13 for 11 ounces of copper. If you want copper bad enough, you can buy from a recognized source and get it for far less than $18.91/lb.. Same thing applies to gold-----if a person is serious about owning gold, it can be had for prices that reflect spot, with a small fee for the transaction. One need not spend 300% of value to buy the metal.

Frankly, show up at my door with cash, and I'll sell you gold for spot today, assuming it's pre-arranged and I have time to retrieve the metal from the vault where it's stored. I not only preach, I do as I preach.

Unlike many people, I didn't look at everything from the perspective of how much money I could make when I was engaged in refining. I refined gold because I wanted to OWN gold, and that was illegal when I first got started. That, of course, quickly changed, when on January 1, 1975, the gold reserve act was repealed.

One of the things I did when I refined was sell gold to my customers. I sold not only my gold, but excess gold from customers that did a lot of repair work, but not much manufacturing. That kind of customer tends to accumulate gold, whereas those that manufacture are selling it far faster than it accumulates in their wastes, so they're in the market for new metal constantly.

I sold gold for spot. The seller received spot when he sold, and the buyer paid spot, with me acting as the middle man, all without a fee. To insure that the customers knew the exact price, I had the buyer make his check payable to the seller, and delivered the exchange to both parties. It was my way of providing customer service, amongst many other benefits. You have to be smart to survive in the refining field, and not *do* your customers. Bad words travel far faster than the good ones do.

This was one of the many strategies I employed in accumulating customers, and keeping them loyal to my operation. Under most circumstances, rarely can a person sell gold for spot, and rarely can a person buy it for spot.

Harold

 

[Anonymous]

Your business practices served you well and your morals seem to be in the right place. I was mearly stating that the seller did not set the price he is only accepting what someone has offer him. He did not plate the metal with gold or do anything to try and conseal the fact that it was only copper.

Also remember spot is set by someones offer on the open market which is what posting on ebay or other auctions is. There is nothing wrong or morally suspect with that, provided there is no seller deception.

I wish I knew why auctions on ebay are so squed, usually in my experience at auctions it is the seller taking a bath do to bad circumstances or other reasons.

 

[SilverNitrate]

Those people buying copper bricks on eBay are buying it because it is a oddity, just a novel item. Surely people aren't buying because its an investment.
I regularly buy all copper pennies even Canadian cents, and generally pay face or just a small percentage over. I buy because I want to hoarde the copper. heck, I'll buy copper from scavengers (provided its good clean)
As for those bars, people should take the 3#s or so out of those old PC monitors or go down to the local Home Depot and buy a few feet of copper pipes.
As investment copper is worth its weight in copper, true it'll be worth more as 999fine copper over 95% copper/5%tin and zinc. Krugerrand gold coins are 92% gold 8% copper and its scrap price is based on the gold content.

 

[skyline27]

Does anybody know where I can buy copper ingots?

 

[Lou]

A variety of places, most of them have their own fabrication ''fees''. You don't get copper for spot value unless you get tons of it.

I suggest you fine some old scrap electrolytic wire and melt it. You can make pretty nice bars if you melt it carefully--granted, they won't be anywhere as good as what you'd get if they were induction melted.


Lou

 

[Anonymous]

Sky how many do you want? I will be firing up the furnace in a couple of weeks. I should have over 100lb worth melted from desolder pipe, 18 gauge and smaller wire, also should have some brass as that is were the
mixed copper goes.

I normally cast the copper into trolly wire blanks but it would be easy enough to cast bars. I use oil bonded green sand for molding.

 

[Swamp Fox]

I was mearly stating that the seller did not set the price he is only accepting what someone has offer him. He did not plate the metal with gold or do anything to try and conseal the fact that it was only copper.

I wish I knew why auctions on ebay are so squed, usually in my experience at auctions it is the seller taking a bath do to bad circumstances or other reasons.

I think that if you look at e-bay prices on just about anything you will get a wide range that will not really represent the true price of what you are looking at. Just now, I went to the site and did a search under gold bullion and people are selling gold at anywhere between 200 and 2000 dollars per ounce! Part of the problem with e-bay is that people selling on e-bay and people buying on e-bay don't always research into what they are buying very well.

So yes, the seller is accepting a price set by someone else who is buying from him, but it all depends on how the customer does his research and what experience he has with what he is buying. I know I wouldn't pay 2000 dollars for gold, but people do. The question then is whether it is right to be selling items at such inflated prices. Many people think that if someone is willing to pay the price then it is fair.

Whichever thought camp you tent in is up to you. Just make sure that whatever you do you can live with yourself and sleep well at night. I am not advocating either side (though I personally consider myself to be on the side of spot over inflated or deflated prices), I am just saying that if you have doubts you should look into the situation and examine what you believe so that you can decide and wipe away your indecision.

Peace all!

Chris

 

[istari9]

I make copper for another use in welding. When there is a wider then normal gap, if copper is placed behind the gap, weld metal can be applied over the copper to fill said gap. When the copper cools it will drop off with a light tap. I have done this using oxy/acl, mig, tig, and arc. The copper needs to be heavy enough to withstand the heat and act as the back plate. I have weled light metal such as auto body and heavy as in 2" thick material.

Ray

 

[Anonymous]

the copper dosen't interfer or weeken the weld?

 

[Anonymous]

Just something to chew on. I run a scrap yard here in western newyork. If someone had this copper dust available near me I would definatley buy it. I would mix it in with copper bearing material such as electric motors and electrical boxes with the fuses and breakers and such still in it. Perhaps there is a level of toxic materials from this copper dust that would make this a bad idea i do not know.

Andrew

"insert witty oneliner"

 

[Froggy]

Check out the prices on ebay for the aluminum bars :shock: :shock: especially the ones that are finished... geez, woder if I can do the same with wood,, one kilo wood bar, highly polished and hand stamped, $100 bucks!! Someone would buy it I'm sure!!!!

 

[Art Corbit]

What happens if you are doing computer scrap with AR and you already have a bunch of copper dissolved in with the gold? I have never been able to drop my gold without dropping all the other junk with it. Is there a way to drop the copper first without dropping the gold and then drop the gold later? Or drop the gold without dropping the copper?

Art

 

[Art Corbit]

The only true value Gold or anything else has is determined by how well it will serve mankind. If you have a steel plow you can use it for years to plow the ground. If that same plow was made out of pure Gold it wouldn't last a week. In this situation the steel is worth a lot more to man than the gold. Steel will simply serve man a lot better to do the job he wishes to use it for. The beauty of Gold has nothing to do with it's true value to man.

Art

 

[junkelly]

Is there a way to drop the copper first without dropping the gold and then drop the gold later? Or drop the gold without dropping the copper?

Art

You may have a candidate for the use of butyl diglyme. I do not have hands on experience with this process - do a search for info. If you don't have this on hand, it will probably be easier to use SMB to drop the gold with the junk, and then re- refine.

Hopefully you know or will soon learn the benefits of eliminating base metals before putting gold into solution, and this will be the last batch you have to salvage in such a way.

-junkelly