Dealing with Waste

[qst42know]

Fair enough. I had been going directly to iron for dropping my wastes. The traces of PMs I missed were simply lost. Thanks for the copper first trick. Though the amount of PMs is small I had thought I was careful with these 2 gallons of waste while some was recovered so that's pretty cool .

Still if you think of a way to profit from the copper leftovers dropped with iron I'd be glad to hear it.

 

[ck]

deleted

4metals here; I was re-reading parts of this old thread and I noticed this former member had deleted all of his posts. I was curious why and read on to discover he suggested taking the copper that is reduced with iron and drying it out and filling scrap copper pipes with it and hammering the ends shut. He deleted all of his posts but some subsequent posts responding to his idea gave away his intent.

It was a bad idea intent on getting paid for a lower grade copper at prices paid for tubing. The good news is, he is long gone.

 

[Harold_V]

My competitor at the time I was refining was Cascade Refining. If memory serves, the scrap yard I did business with told me that they had been buying his copper that he had been recovering electrolytically. I had intended to do so myself, but I was so busy I didn't have time to mess with the process. I would suggest that you explore the possibility----for in the long run, you'll have copper to sell, and copper to use for silver recovery. I think it's worth the effort, assuming you have some idle time. I would certainly explore the possibility myself if I was still refining today.

Harold

 

[ck]

deleted

 

[Platdigger]

In fact, the bulk of electronic scrap is concidered "breakage" (not counting higher grade circut boards) and is bought based on the copper value alone.
Randy

 

[4metals]

I'm sure the copper could be melted because the copper produced in mining operations is often reduced from solutions with iron, then cast into anodes and electrolytically refined. A strong reducing flux should do the trick, I've used cryolite for really difficult melts, tough on crucibles but tougher on oxides.

 

[4metals]

Q2Know,

You mentioned you don't have a pH meter, well some of these reactions are pH dependent and a meter would help. Since we all have computers, there is a unit out there called a pH Turtle which plugs into a computer and is a fantastic pH meter. Costs about $110. Just Google pH Turtle and it will come up.

 

[Harold_V]

I'm sure the copper could be melted because the copper produced in mining operations is often reduced from solutions with iron, then cast into anodes and electrolytically refined. A strong reducing flux should do the trick, I've used cryolite for really difficult melts, tough on crucibles but tougher on oxides.

I melted enough of the material to learn that it isn't profitable on a small scale. The time and expense it takes, coupled with the damage done to the crucible, render it a losing proposition.

Kennecott Copper is one of the largest copper producers in the world. They have operated an open pit mine in what was once Bingham Canyon for over 100 years. The operation is huge, so large that the mountain that once made Bingham a canyon is now gone, a huge hole in the ground. This operation was my neighbor. They run a precipitation plant and recover copper with scrap steel. I've actually stood inside one of their furnaces, a huge reverberatory unit that had been shut down to be relined. They can process the material economically because of the sheer volume and balance of materials that are charged to the furnaces. I have serious doubts if that could be accomplished in a home refinery without sustaining losses far greater than the value of the recovered copper.

When I closed the doors on my humble refinery, I ended up hauling two 55 gallon drums of copper, recovered with scrap steel, to the land fill. In spite of considerable effort, I couldn't find a buyer-----and was totally ignored by Kennecott when I offered to deliver it free of charge to their facility, where it could be put in the pipeline.

It is for the above reasons that I suggest the home refiner attempt recovery electrolytically, where the copper has a chance of being deposited in a relatively pure state, perhaps even nodular in form. That would be acceptable in recycle centers, unlike the sponge that is typically recovered on scrap steel.

Harold

 

[ck]

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[Sodbuster]

Refine copper with electrolyisis, and next comes nickle.
Heck I'll go for that too if I think I know how.
Just a thought -- Ray

PS: sorry I can't splz

 

[qst42know]

I collect scrap metal, so I think what I would do is flatten 1 end of a copper pipe, fill with copper powder, then flatten other end to seal it, then sell to scrap yard as #2 copper.

Just save up copper pipe till you have a hundred pounds or so.

I would bet most if not all established scrap yards are on to loaded pipes.

 

[ck]

deleted

 

[qst42know]

I'm almost certain I would be turned away if I showed up with a load of pipes with the ends neatly pinched shut. No mater what was inside. Fine chips or particles of any metal are always graded lower than solid pieces of the same metal. I don't believe it would work. I wasn't accusing you of anything.

 

[ck]

deleted

 

[metatp]

I have a question about dropping copper with iron after filtering the silver cement. While experimenting with small batches, I used iron nails to drop the copper. They seemed to work ok. Now that I have processed a number of batches of silver using copper to cement the silver, I have a bucket of copper nitrate. I am using an old lawn mower blade to drop the copper, but it is not working very well. Is there a specific iron that is best to use? Maybe the lawn mower blade is a steel alloy that doesn't work as well.

Thanks for your advise.
Tom

 

[Oz]

Low carbon iron works best (think soft iron) as to avoid carbon residues and speed the process. Also stay away from any form of stainless.

 

[rewalston]

Waste treatment for the small refiner.

.......clear liquid to discard.

4metals, you stated in the post to syphon the clear liquid to discard. My question, for discarding, would this clear liquid now be safe enough to just pour down the drain or by whatever means...street, storm drains, etc.

Rusty

 

[glorycloud]

I believe you still need to bring the PH level to 7 before you can put
your clear liquid with no heavy metals down the drain.

 

[metatp]

Well the lawn mower blade is now starting to work. It took about a week to really start working. Maybe the surface was treated or something. I now also have an iron rod.

 

[4metals]

When the iron is finished displacing the base metals all that is left in solution is iron. The iron drops out at a pH of 3 to 3.5 leaving the solution barren of metals. The pH will have to be raised to around 7 before discharging it. I have used this procedure in more than 1 refinery and have tested the water before discharging for metals and never had an issue. Today most municipalities have standards for discharging water to ground or sewer, it is wise to know what the governing standards are and have a typical batch of waste tested by a lab using an Atomic Absorption Spec. just to be sure.