Non-Chemical Dissolving clay

[AKDan]

Just responded to the PM, but there was not a picture attached that I noticed. Will look again to make sure.

 

[EVO-AU]

Dick:

Pm received, but couldn't find a picture anywhere. Phill

 

[dick b]

Phill:
Drawing resent in email attachment. dickb

 

[EVO-AU]

To all you generous forum hunters of this post:

It seems the answer was staring me right in the face. The claygone formula has turned the clay into a solubility that when put thru the blue bowl eliminates all the clay leaving nothing but silica, black sands and junk rock. Not even a smidgen of silt remains. If this helps any body with clay problems - go for it. We - on this forum - are one for all and all for one. Have a happy --------- Phill

 

[EVO-AU]

Well, heck ! It still isn't working to my satisfaction. Getting cold around here, so I am going to set up a closed cicuit setup in my kitchen. Then all the water will be only claygone mix. There is an answer and I'll find it. And all youzzzzzzz guys - thanks !

 

[EVO-AU]

Okay one and all:


To all you experimenters and chemists - down to the wire ! Is there a chemical that will actuallly disolve clay and leave a clear liquid ? I remember seeing something about this in a trade mag many years ago, but at the time wasn't cognizant to my situation. I'm going to contact ICMJ and see what info they might have. There has to be an snswer somewhere; I'm so tired of tearing my pumps down to clean out the silt. Yes, even with multiple screens. Phill

 

[EVO-AU]

Okay, in regards to my last post on this subject I haven't heard ( seen ) any new ideas out there. To all you grad chemists and workers in the different fields of silt removal, is there nothing in your brilliant studies and past experiences that will bring on the absolute dissolving of silt from clay ? Now remember, those claygone formulas DO NOT dissolve - they only ppt the silt and NOT remove it. Please ??????

Phill

 

[EVO-AU]

to one and all:

I did try ICMJ and they have nothing on processing clay or silt.

So much for that avenue of info and search.

Phill

 

[Traveller11]

Mark:

I have three re-circulating setups and they do not run out the clay particles and hold back the heavies. Elimination of the clay means that later filtering is cut to a minimum and smelting is a joy rather than a drudge.That new ( to me, anyway ) method from the Geus website is working rather well. And that is a joy.

From what I have gleaned from others on this site and browsing the web, Clay-be-gone settles the particles without the actual dispersal of them. I suppose I'll just have to order a bottle and see for myself.

For your input, domo, Phill

Addendum: I just viewed Yeagers' video demo and the water cleared, but, the clay particles were still there, so that does me no good.

If you are trying to disperse the clay particles to allow the heavies to settle, you need to use a deflocculant. A long time ago, I worked for a clay broker in their testing lab. One of the tests we performed was deflocculation. We would take a stiff clay and pit it in a viscometer. It's just a calibrated cylinder that rotates in the clay. The viscosity is the drag on the cylinder as it rotates. The procedure was to add deflocculant (Sodium Silicate solution of known concentration) drop by drop until the point of minimum viscosity. If you add too much, the viscosity begins to increase again.

There are a number of compounds that will do the job. Google deflocculant. Each clay is unique, so you need to take a known volume and determine how much it takes. It only takes a very small amount to do the job.

Hi Irons

This is an old thread but the problem of trying to liquefy clay and stop its gold robbing properties is just as fresh as ever.

Your experience working for the clay broker confirms all of the research I've done on this topic. As you said, a few drops too many of the deflocculant and the viscosity increases again and makes a mockery of the whole exercise. Outside of the lab, the ratio of clay, water and deflocculant is difficult to control.

So, I decided to find out what makes clay so sticky in the first place and see if that might shed a bit of light on the problem. The first thing I found out is that clay is nothing more than rock that has been ground (mostly by glaciers) to between 1-5 microns. It sticks together so well because of an electrostatic charge held by each particle of clay. Now, here is the interesting part. If the clay has an acidic ph (below 7), the electrostatic charge causes attraction between particles. If the ph of the clay is base (above 7), the electrostatic charge causes each particle to repel the other particles. This explains why so many deflocculants (sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide, etc.) are bases. What I haven't been able to find out is why adding too much deflocculant reverses the effects of a small amount of deflocculant and increases the viscosity.

However, I have read numerous prospecting forums where small time miners speak of putting clay and water in a five gallon pail, poking a hole in the lid, putting the shaft of a drywall or paint mixer through this hole, connecting that to a large drill and "mixing" the clay and water until the contents of the five gallon pail are liquefied. And they all claim to have great success with this method.

At first glance, it would seem this method shouldn't work, as the mixer does nothing to change the ph of the clay and water, unless, of course, the water had a high ph and ultimately changed the ph of the clay.

Reflecting further, it occurred to me that the electrostatic charge in the clay might be no different than me walking across a dry carpet with socks on my feet. A static charge builds up in me and, when I reach for the doorknob on leaving the room, the static electricity is released and jumps from me to the doorknob.

Can this be what we are seeing in the mixing of clay and water? Is the mixer, in its blending process, causing exposure of each micron sized particle of clay to the blades of the blender and grounding the electrostatic charge to the cord of the drill, leaving the clay with no static charge? Would it work better if one connected a copper ground wire from inside the clay to a driven ground rod to maximise grounding?

 

[Irons2]

This reminded me of a guy, long ago, that used a carbon plate inside a slurry tank to separate Gold from the gangue. Since Gold doesn't hold a charge, I can see how that might work. At the time, I just thought it was Junk Science.

 

[Traveller11]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Just think about handling a piece of clay in running water. As our hands contact it, the outer surface liquefies and runs away while the piece in our hand, the majority of it not in direct contact with our hands and still holding an electrostaic charge, remains in solid form.

 

[rusty]

Cement mixer half full of water 6 shovel scoops of clay, 15 minutes the clay has been reduced. If you have a good supply of water keep it flowing so that it out flow from the mixer removes the clay, soon your water inside the mixer will be clear with your heavies left behind.

Add a dab of dish soap to keep your fine values or run the over flow onto a sluice.

 

[artart47]

Hey Evo!
The bar was called Blarney's Island. Grass Lake is fed by the fox river. Upstream are Lake Cathrine and Marie. If you go to Rt 173 near the state line, there is a campground and there is a small dam on the river. per-haps a good way to get samples. camp, dress like big kids or bring some kids with little buckets and shovels! ha ha!
North of that area in Wisconsin is the ketttle morain, the line where the glaciars ended and dumped everything as they melted. They,I'm told, found diamonds in town of Eagle that were from michigans upper peninsula. I'm just guessing that if you found that type of material being worked in the u.p. or Canada near there it could be part of the same.
Hope it helps!
artart47
p.s. Just west of the campground is the pits for Thelen ready-mix. Per-haps they would let you study the the sides of their pits. you may get to see what was deposited in the area. Jack thelen used to be the big cheeze when we were pouring concrete in the eighties. I don't know about now!