Do any of these components contain Palladium?

[Alondro]

Yes, you are right. I forgot the USSR red square ceramics, which used to contain PdPt. Generally i have experience with the classic type "brown ones" manufactured mainly by TESLA. These have relatively OK silver, but not economical for me.

Haha, yea, that´s the stuff! I once acquired like 20-30 cards from old PC´s, like 60-80´s. The thickness of plating on the fingers was just impressive. The fingers were apparently plated manually, not in an automated process.

The value of this type of stuff will only go up as the time pass. So if you have place where you can store it, good way to go.

It is pretty obvious if you have MLCC, crack one with pliers and if you see ceramic, celebration starts not only eastern-type electronics have good MLCCs. Also old western equipment have them.

PS: on the photo of board you send, there are small yellow components, looking like resistors. Crack one with pliers - I have seen quite a bit of these, and they used to be MLCCs too. Some plastic, some like resin dip packages
And also two good sized tantalums. But probably no solid-silver casing.

Do you happen to know what the 'silver' plating is on 80's and early 90's pins and contacts, which is sometimes in place of gold plating? It's very bright plating, and doesn't look like tin at all. I've heard that thin plating of Pt-group metals will dissolve in conc. HCl. If that's true, can I dissolve a few and then stannous test them?

 

[Alondro]

Yup, very hard to understand why it was so thick maybe because Soviet headmasters said "we can, and we will have the thickest plating on Earth!" Engineer: "But, sir, it just add weight to our equipment and drain our country and citizens from resources..." "I say that again, triple the necessary plating, for the glory of our empire!" when I processed this type of material ordinarily, it came in big mixed batches of everything. Straight AR processing. I did not take pictures at that time, but if you know OwlTech, he has many many great videos about practically the same stuff. Thrilling to watch the gold drop from like 2 kilos of pins getting to the 6-7th spoon of SMB and solution still has yellow tinge to it ... wonderful times

I got some pins from nuclear launch control boards made in 1976. The gold plating is so thick that when the beryllium-copper cores are dissolved, the gold foils sit there as hollow tubes! They don't even drift much when you swirl the solution. They sink right back down almost as soon as you stop shaking the the flask (gotta be SUPER careful with those solutions! Beryllium ion is very toxic, interfering with many enzymes which require Mg in their reaction centers, as well as blocking DNA synthesis in cells; and the body can't eliminate it because it's such a tiny ion and highly charged, so it accumulates!)

 

[Alondro]

Thanks @orvi, I'm very familiar with all types of multi-layer capacitors. This post was more so focused on the disk capacitors.
The older ceramic disk capacitors definitely used Pd. The machinery that made the pre-1990s ceramic disk capacitors were engineered specifically for use with either silver or a palladium/silver alloy for the electrode coated on the ceramic dielectric. Base metal materials weren't used until the machinery was developed to do so and implemented around 1993 through 1995 for big industry. This goes for MLCCs as well from what I've learned. This said, I know most standard ceramic disk capacitors still only used silver alone. But the unique ones definitely used the Ag/Pd alloy.

Mid 1990s was the big shift towards using base metals for components used in standard electronics. Some manufactures didn't shift over until the late 1990s due to the cost of acquiring new manufacturing equipment - which is why a lot of automotive companies such as Mercedes or GM still had none-magnetic MLCCs in their automotive computers up until the late 1990s.

Haha yeah if you think # 24 is interesting, you should have seen the boards it came off of. It was an early 1980s automotive emissions computer from an automotive shop. The boards that #24 came off of were HP circuit boards completely gold traced. All together, from one computer, the gold foils filled a 120mm Buchner funnel filter similar to 3 kilograms of ram fingers! They looked a lot like this but without those newer ICs and instead, fully analog.
View attachment 49099
Thanks for the refining tips, but I'm only collecting Pd scrap as of now (or at least what I think is Pd). It will probably be a few years before I even think to begin any of those processes - maybe I'll contact you one day in the future with a bunch of questions haha jk. Lots of learning ahead.

I've got to get some info on those big old block-type capacitors, the large rectangular red, brown, and blue ones. They have a foil of some type inside them. The smaller ones are a mix of foil wrapping type, and solid-ceramic type that look like resin-coated early-generation MLCCs.

And then there are the potential tantalum capacitors... there are so many possible ones, I have a jar filled with DOZENS of types of capacitors which MIGHT have tantalum. The only ones I'm certain of are the tantalum-drop type and the little yellow and black rectangles from 90's boards.

 

[kurtak]

And then there are the potential tantalum capacitors... there are so many possible ones, I have a jar filled with DOZENS of types of capacitors which MIGHT have tantalum. The only ones I'm certain of are the tantalum-drop type and the little yellow and black rectangles from 90's boards.

Per the bold print - read this thread - it will help you identify most if not all types tantalum caps

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/tantalum-capacitor-scrap-purchasing-international.21530/
Kurt

 

[kurtak]

I've heard that thin plating of Pt-group metals will dissolve in conc. HCl. If that's true, can I dissolve a few and then stannous test them?

Pd is the only PGM that will dissolve in HCl alone - BUT - in order to do so the Pd has to be VERY finely divided (ULTA fine)

I don't believe Pd plating is fine enough for HCl to dissolve it

To put it somewhat in perspective

I have used HCl to wash Pd cemented from solutions (which is a VERY fine powder) without putting Pd back into solution

On the other hand - when I was leaching catalytic converters for their PGMs - the Pd is so ULTRA fine that the Pd would go into solution almost instantly when pouring the HCl into the CAT combs --- in other words put Pd in solution with just HCl & before adding chlorine --- but as I say - the Pd in the wash coat of CATs is ULTRA fine (much finer then cemented Pd)

The Pt & Rh in CATs is just as fine as the Pd - but nether Pt or Rh would go into solution with just HCl

In order to dissolve the VERY finely divided Pt & Rh in the CATs it required HCL plus chlorine

Kurt

 

[Alondro]

Pd is the only PGM that will dissolve in HCl alone - BUT - in order to do so the Pd has to be VERY finely divided (ULTA fine)

I don't believe Pd plating is fine enough for HCl to dissolve it

To put it somewhat in perspective

I have used HCl to wash Pd cemented from solutions (which is a VERY fine powder) without putting Pd back into solution

On the other hand - when I was leaching catalytic converters for their PGMs - the Pd is so ULTRA fine that the Pd would go into solution almost instantly when pouring the HCl into the CAT combs --- in other words put Pd in solution with just HCl & before adding chlorine --- but as I say - the Pd in the wash coat of CATs is ULTRA fine (much finer then cemented Pd)

The Pt & Rh in CATs is just as fine as the Pd - but nether Pt or Rh would go into solution with just HCl

In order to dissolve the VERY finely divided Pt & Rh in the CATs it required HCL plus chlorine

Kurt

Thanks! I'm always nervous about soaking plating in concentrated acids when I don't know what the metal is, or exactly how it reacts. So if the plating dissolves easily in HCl, it's probably nothing of value. That'll be useful for determining which of the 'silver' plated pins to process.

 

[Alondro]

Here are some pics of my various sorted capacitors (and some other disc-type components), which COULD be Ag-Pd, Ag, or just junk! I'll put the potential (and some known) tantalum types in a second note.

#20 in the second picture has the 'unique' types, and those are the only ones I have of those types/colors.

 

[Alondro]

And now the 'tantalum' types. Many of these I'm not sure what the foils inside are composed of. But the pics can be labelled by the experts as to what they most likely have in them, which will be helpful for everybody.

All of these were from boards acquired in the USA, most of the old-types were made in Japan, Taiwan, or the USA. A few from Mexico, Philippines, and Malaysia. Most of the new types were from boards made in China.

#17-20 are the ones I'm CERTAIN are tantalum (though the little black rectangles might have some Schottky diodes mixed in). #19 are the nice little tantalum drops, and #20 are military-grade tantalum tube capacitors from the late 1970s. They're very heavy compared to the others and the metal is quite hard. From what I could find about them, apparently even the casing is tantalum! They were made for very high-voltage circuits. I got them off the launch control boards I've mentioned in other posts. You'll never find them on consumer electronics, not even in most industry. Only aerospace and military. The large foil types in #10 also came from those boards, but I'm not certain what metal foil combinations they use. Those old foil capacitors were quite varied, especially when you get them from ultra-high-grade equipment.

 

[Alondro]

One more pic with some more 'unique' capacitors, maybe tantalum, maybe silver, maybe nothing but aluminum!

I think the little drop ones are tantalum. They're heavy for their size. But maybe another heavy metal too.

 

[orvi]

I came across silver and palladium plated contacts and pins, aside of dip-tin coating as well. Distinguishing between Pd and Ag on older boards, which were sitting somwhere for long time, is most of the times very quick. Silver tarnish the way you cannot mistake. Palladium don´t.

 

[orvi]

Here are some pics of my various sorted capacitors (and some other disc-type components), which COULD be Ag-Pd, Ag, or just junk! I'll put the potential (and some known) tantalum types in a second note.

#20 in the second picture has the 'unique' types, and those are the only ones I have of those types/colors.

View attachment 49235View attachment 49236

#8 - written NTC - this is a thermistor - type of resistor, used in soft-start circuit of power supply. In terms of precious metals, i don´t know if it contain something valuable.

I see plenty of classical ceramics and then plenty of foil ones. I maybe dissapoint you, foil caps are aluminium foil and some dielectric plastic wrapped together. No value.
Luckily, they are very easy to distinguish from others - they are very light, have distinct shapes when resin-coated, and after cracking one open, it is clearly visible

 

[orvi]

And now the 'tantalum' types. Many of these I'm not sure what the foils inside are composed of. But the pics can be labelled by the experts as to what they most likely have in them, which will be helpful for everybody.

All of these were from boards acquired in the USA, most of the old-types were made in Japan, Taiwan, or the USA. A few from Mexico, Philippines, and Malaysia. Most of the new types were from boards made in China.

#17-20 are the ones I'm CERTAIN are tantalum (though the little black rectangles might have some Schottky diodes mixed in). #19 are the nice little tantalum drops, and #20 are military-grade tantalum tube capacitors from the late 1970s. They're very heavy compared to the others and the metal is quite hard. From what I could find about them, apparently even the casing is tantalum! They were made for very high-voltage circuits. I got them off the launch control boards I've mentioned in other posts. You'll never find them on consumer electronics, not even in most industry. Only aerospace and military. The large foil types in #10 also came from those boards, but I'm not certain what metal foil combinations they use. Those old foil capacitors were quite varied, especially when you get them from ultra-high-grade equipment.

View attachment 49241View attachment 49242

The plastic casing ones are 90+% foil ones. If you see markings like "MKP" or "X2", thesse mark classes of foil capacitors. These are often found as filtering caps in power supply used for noise reduction - switching power supply in general create a lot of high frequency noise in kHz range, and it should be filtered very good. Otherwise it will pass to the grid in your house and cause for example TVs and audio amplifiers to catch that noise and mess audio/video quality.
Also, they are very light, distictivly shaped, and inside you find just foil some brands are quite expensive, but used ones, I do not know if there is any retail value in them. In power applications, they go through harsh conditions, and this could result in permanent damage, which is very hard to ***** without special cap meters and ESR meters.

Next you have some classical electrolytic caps there. Electrolytic vs. tantalum is also easy to distinguish after some practice. Elyte is made of aluminium with just electrodes (also aluminium largely) and some paper inside = very light. Tantalum contain tantalum of course = very dense metal. And casing is usually made from silver plated brass (if it is the old type). Very old ones could have solid silver casings.
"Drop" like resin-dipped things could be tantalum. But this shape is also common to be old-manufactured coils. Snap one open and you will see. In tantalum, you will find actual tantalum electrode and silver foil. In the coil... Wire you find

 

[kurtak]

#10 are also Ta --- #15 - maybe - not sure - the pic gets blurry when I try to enlarge it

#20 are military-grade tantalum tube capacitors from the late 1970s. They're very heavy compared to the others and the metal is quite hard. From what I could find about them, apparently even the casing is tantalum! They were made for very high-voltage circuits. I got them off the launch control boards I've mentioned in other posts. You'll never find them on consumer electronics, not even in most industry. Only aerospace and military

Per the bold print --- not true - I have pulled those off of MANY different OLD boards that most certainly were NOT military/aerospace

Kurt

 

[Alondro]

I came across silver and palladium plated contacts and pins, aside of dip-tin coating as well. Distinguishing between Pd and Ag on older boards, which were sitting somwhere for long time, is most of the times very quick. Silver tarnish the way you cannot mistake. Palladium don´t.

Oooo... wow... many of these pins are bright and shiny, even after they've been sitting for decades. This is very promising!

 

[Alondro]

The plastic casing ones are 90+% foil ones. If you see markings like "MKP" or "X2", thesse mark classes of foil capacitors. These are often found as filtering caps in power supply used for noise reduction - switching power supply in general create a lot of high frequency noise in kHz range, and it should be filtered very good. Otherwise it will pass to the grid in your house and cause for example TVs and audio amplifiers to catch that noise and mess audio/video quality.
Also, they are very light, distictivly shaped, and inside you find just foil some brands are quite expensive, but used ones, I do not know if there is any retail value in them. In power applications, they go through harsh conditions, and this could result in permanent damage, which is very hard to ***** without special cap meters and ESR meters.

Next you have some classical electrolytic caps there. Electrolytic vs. tantalum is also easy to distinguish after some practice. Elyte is made of aluminium with just electrodes (also aluminium largely) and some paper inside = very light. Tantalum contain tantalum of course = very dense metal. And casing is usually made from silver plated brass (if it is the old type). Very old ones could have solid silver casings.
"Drop" like resin-dipped things could be tantalum. But this shape is also common to be old-manufactured coils. Snap one open and you will see. In tantalum, you will find actual tantalum electrode and silver foil. In the coil... Wire you find

I popped open a few multi-colored drop ones, no coil inside! Just silvery metal foil surrounding a ball of dark, compressed metal powder. Silver and tantalum! Yay!

Some of the foil inside several of the plastic rectangle (metalized polypropylene) capacitors is strange. It doesn't look like aluminum. It's steel-colored and stiff, and when you bend it, it flexes back to a sheet again, whereas aluminum crumples. At the ends of a foil coils is a powdered metal pressed into a cap. The others that are clearly aluminum don't have this. I'll have to do a few chemical tests on a piece of it.

EDIT: Testing some foils from a few of the uncertain capacitors in HCl showed some dissolved instantly, so those are Al. But others, namely from the 'plastic box' polypropylene type, have the wide foil dissolve at once (Al), but the narrow middle foils are dissolving more slowly and leaving a black powdery material, possibly that metal is dissolving and then reducing as the Al foil dissolves. Maybe a tin metallized plastic strip? Zinc 'schoopages' (just found that term)?

The few small yellow rectangle capacitors that have the stiff, darker foil in flat stacked layers are probably zinc on a type of harder plastic. That was apparently used in some of the metallized plastic types.

Also found out that the tiny black plastic rectangle capacitors can be niobium/niobium pentoxide instead of tantalum.

As for the many types of ceramic discs, I might as well process all of them. The electrodes appear to frequently use silver, at the very least. The oldest ones may also use an Ag-Pd alloy.

 

[kurtak]

I popped open a few multi-colored drop ones,

Yes those are tantalum caps

Just silvery metal foil

I believe the foil is tantalum (yes they make tantalum foil)

surrounding a ball of dark, compressed metal powder.

That is for sure the (sintered) tantalum pellet

Kurt

 

[maximum3ffort]

And now the 'tantalum' types. Many of these I'm not sure what the foils inside are composed of. But the pics can be labelled by the experts as to what they most likely have in them, which will be helpful for everybody.

All of these were from boards acquired in the USA, most of the old-types were made in Japan, Taiwan, or the USA. A few from Mexico, Philippines, and Malaysia. Most of the new types were from boards made in China.

#17-20 are the ones I'm CERTAIN are tantalum (though the little black rectangles might have some Schottky diodes mixed in). #19 are the nice little tantalum drops, and #20 are military-grade tantalum tube capacitors from the late 1970s. They're very heavy compared to the others and the metal is quite hard. From what I could find about them, apparently even the casing is tantalum! They were made for very high-voltage circuits. I got them off the launch control boards I've mentioned in other posts. You'll never find them on consumer electronics, not even in most industry. Only aerospace and military. The large foil types in #10 also came from those boards, but I'm not certain what metal foil combinations they use. Those old foil capacitors were quite varied, especially when you get them from ultra-high-grade equipment.

View attachment 49241View attachment 49242

What up to all on this site. I know these are old posts but everyone here has been instrumwntal in my growth so for that, Thnk you. You are very much appreciated.

Alondro, my experience with the plastic cased caps have proven to me with pretty high accuracy that the ones in your fist pic #1 thru 4 a certainly film.
As an indicator i remove one and check the bottom. If its the glossy i think hardened silicone its junk.
There are also ones that are mlcc, tantalum, and fuses. Ill take pics if i can still find the diff types ive come across. Thanks again to all of you meastros on this forum

 

[Yggdrasil]

What up to all on this site. I know these are old posts but everyone here has been instrumwntal in my growth so for that, Thnk you. You are very much appreciated.

Alondro, my experience with the plastic cased caps have proven to me with pretty high accuracy that the ones in your fist pic #1 thru 4 a certainly film.
As an indicator i remove one and check the bottom. If its the glossy i think hardened silicone its junk.
There are also ones that are mlcc, tantalum, and fuses. Ill take pics if i can still find the diff types ive come across. Thanks again to all of you meastros on this forum

Welcome to us.

 

[anarxi]

This is a product from the Krasnoyarsk catalog of non-ferrous metals.
one of the largest oil refineries in Russia.
there is just a website that can be read through a translator

Maybe you guys can read this then. A member posted this on the forum years ago whom was from Russia. I've had it in my library even though i can't read it.

https://roskontakt.ru/spravochnik/rele.php

 

[anarxi]

From the first sight, i cannot recognize any Pd ones on the photos. All apear modern, disc shape type caps, which could get you some silver, but i doubt Pd will be present. This is bit different technology than MLCCs. Many times using silver plated ceramics, many times just base metals. Old basic ceramic capacitors - not MLCCs - from 60-80s (eg TESLA or USSR/Bulgarian types) contain up to few % of silver some times, but generally less than 10g/kg. Too much labor, dealing with tin and quantities of nitric. For me not economical. But if you manage to get some few kilograms, smelting it with added lead could produce nice dore.

#24 look very intriguing... but it needs testing. If it is Pd type, nitric test could generally reveal it by just looking at the colour of the leaching solution (if Pd content is decent). More sensitive test is DMG. Even if you cannot see yellow precipitate, you can filter the solution through a filter paper and any very fine precipitate should be clearly visible.

Do these only have silver?

I once read that they are superior in content to Soviet red ones.