Does copper only knock out gold or does it also knock out silver?

[Martijn]

a few hundred grams to a kilo for either of the aforementioned

The same I guess, leading fumes from a reaction vessel to the scrubber

Not sure about this

I meant: which gas producing processes will you be using?
This together with the amount of material you need to process per day or week or month will tell yo how much gasses you will produce and need scrubbing.
Hobbyists can suffice with a small scubber bottle setup, pro's need a big installation that's certified and maintained.

Start at the beginning, solve the problem you expect to have, not problems you will never encounter. And stay within those parameters with this setup.

Better yet: research how to avoid creating gasses.
I don't scrub very often, I process small amounts that are in no hurry.
Think prevention in stead of damage control.
In all aspects of refining.
And don't overdo it.

To get experience: start small! Test tube size recovery and refining processes, perform the acquaintance tests which are relevant to your situation from Hoke's book. This can be done without scrubbing in the fume hood. That tiny amount of gas will be dispersed with the airflow of the fume hood.

No need to play around with test scrubbers imo.
You do need to test these setups with water and air before going live with acids if you're not sure how it works. Especially backflow protection. (Catch bottle)
A water powered vacuum vernturi will scrub the gasses once more.

 

[J.Najam]

Most new cars have a compressor to refill the tires in stead of a spare tire.
Good for testing only.

Ah yes, this can be done.

The setup I posted earlier can take quite a bit of fumes, and to increase the retention time,

Yes I did check it out. Had some questions regarding that too. Will mention them soon with my next post

 

[J.Najam]

I meant: which gas producing processes will you be using?

most likely the reacting combinations may be:

HCl + h202
HCl + HNO3

need to process per day or week or month

once, max twice a week for a couple of hours at night only.

Hobbyists can suffice with a small scubber bottle setup

My case would be this.

Better yet: research how to avoid creating gasses.

but this seems like the best option given I won't be refining very large or very frequently.

You do need to test these setups with water and air before going live with acids if you're not sure how it works.

Even if I do understand sir, this is still mandatory now. I may have already made a lot of mess in the past. Hence, there is no need to play the main game without some practice first. This forum has entailed the required patience in me for this game. So no rush.. I got some powders lying around in clean water. They're contaminated with MLCCs, so ill first filter and fish them out then move on to the next procedures.

 

[J.Najam]

Just make sure to have one bottle of NaOH solution

Is it true that Ive read around here that the NaOH solution is not greatly compatible with glass vessels. I did a google search and similarly I found this:

Sodium hydroxide cannot be stored in glass stoppered bottles or cannot be taken in glass burettes because. Due to reaction of silica in glass with NaOH , the concentration of NaOH increases. The sodium silicate present in the glass dissolves in sodium hydroxide.

So how do you people cope up with this in the scrubbing system? Has there ever been an issue? OR do you not use glass bottles for NaOH in this process?

Please shed some light to clear this confusion.

Thanks

 

[Yggdrasil]

Is it true that Ive read around here that the NaOH solution is not greatly compatible with glass vessels. I did a google search and similarly I found this:

Sodium hydroxide cannot be stored in glass stoppered bottles or cannot be taken in glass burettes because. Due to reaction of silica in glass with NaOH , the concentration of NaOH increases. The sodium silicate present in the glass dissolves in sodium hydroxide.

So how do you people cope up with this in the scrubbing system? Has there ever been an issue? OR do you not use glass bottles for NaOH in this process?

Please shed some light to clear this confusion.

Thanks

This is somewhat true, but only for strong solutions that are very hot.
Even Sulfuric will etch glass in measurable though not visible amounts.
For scrubbing a 10% or at the most a 20% solution can be used and it will be cold so it presents no issues.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Is it true that Ive read around here that the NaOH solution is not greatly compatible with glass vessels. I did a google search and similarly I found this:

Sodium hydroxide cannot be stored in glass stoppered bottles or cannot be taken in glass burettes because. Due to reaction of silica in glass with NaOH , the concentration of NaOH increases. The sodium silicate present in the glass dissolves in sodium hydroxide.

So how do you people cope up with this in the scrubbing system? Has there ever been an issue? OR do you not use glass bottles for NaOH in this process?

Please shed some light to clear this confusion.

Thanks

If you feel insecure with the NaOH or KOH, just use Sodium carbonate in stead, but then you will need a stronger solution.
You just need a Caustic solution to deal with what ever acids that follow the stream this far.
This is not that important if you use a e-ductor vacuum system with pump and reservoir, then the acid fumes will follow into the water.

 

[J.Najam]

If you feel insecure with the NaOH or KOH, just use Sodium carbonate in stead, but then you will need a stronger solution.
You just need a Caustic solution to deal with what ever acids that follow the stream this far.
This is not that important if you use a e-ductor vacuum system with pump and reservoir, then the acid fumes will follow into the water.

Oh I see, what is the recommended concentration for sodium carbonate?

This is not that important if you use a e-ductor vacuum system with pump and reservoir, then the acid fumes will follow into the water.

So If I use a 4 litre jar filled with marbles halfway and add sodium carbonate to the solution leaving some head room in the jar, and connect the jar with the reaction vessel it should do the job fair enough?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Oh I see, what is the recommended concentration for sodium carbonate?

So If I use a 4 litre jar filled with marbles halfway and add sodium carbonate to the solution leaving some head room in the jar, and connect the jar with the reaction vessel it should do the job fair enough?

Depends on the scrubbed volume, the only important thing is that the gas bubbles has to be in contact with the liquid in 9 seconds or there about, more is better.

 

[J.Najam]

Alright, noted.

Will try on my experiments. I have another question in the scrubber thread. Please do see it. Thanks

 

[J.Najam]

Here is a sketch
View attachment 55314

My apologies, its actually the same thread.. well how is it suggested to follow up using this sketch if we were to follow the incremental dosage technique. Like with Aqua regia here in this process? Where HCL is in the reaction vessel with nitric/ h202 being added in parts

 

[Yggdrasil]

My apologies, its actually the same thread.. well how is it suggested to follow up using this sketch if we were to follow the incremental dosage technique. Like with Aqua regia here in this process? Where HCL is in the reaction vessel with nitric/ h202 being added in parts

If you keep in control of adding oxidizer, there is not much need for scrubbing.

 

[J.Najam]

If you keep in control of adding oxidizer, there is not much need for scrubbing.

But im most certainly getting NO2(with nitric)/O2(with h202)/CL(hcl boil) gasses with my procedures. By as little I could try in order to prevent creating gasses such the BFRC. Im still producing some in the end.

Although its certain when I read around here, that the HCL fumes/vapors and alike are actually heavier than air, tend to hug the ground. With my experience its actually very true. Seen it with my own eyes boss.

It was scary from the point of view that my car is actually parked straight in the line of wind carrying the fumes in the same direction.

That was my last operation annd none after that.

Therefore, do you think a fumehood would suffice in such a case wherever I do decide to place it?

 

[Yggdrasil]

But im most certainly getting NO2(with nitric)/O2(with h202)/CL(hcl boil) gasses with my procedures. By as little I could try in order to prevent creating gasses such the BFRC. Im still producing some in the end.

Although its certain when I read around here, that the HCL fumes/vapors and alike are actually heavier than air, tend to hug the ground. With my experience its actually very true. Seen it with my own eyes boss.

It was scary from the point of view that my car is actually parked straight in the line of wind carrying the fumes in the same direction.

That was my last operation annd none after that.

Therefore, do you think a fumehood would suffice in such a case wherever I do decide to place it?

A fumehood only moves the fumes to another place.
The question is just how much is produced and how fast it mixes to sufficient dilution in the air.
That depends on how fast and how much fumes is produced.

NOx should be kept as low as practical, scrubs to Nitric in Water/Peroxide mix and destroyed in weak NaOH.
Oxygen is not dangerous, Hydrogen goes straight up and is non toxic.
Chlorine gas should be avoided as it is toxic.
HCl gas will bind to moisture and create HCl or is scrubbed out in the same Hydroxide mix as NOx.

 

[J.Najam]

I will be using a hotplate in every process.. so fume production is certain. I plan to keep the temperature somewhere between 45-75c for different processes.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I will be using a hotplate in every process.. so fume production is certain. I plan to keep the temperature somewhere between 45-75c for different processes.

HCl fumes are certain and corrosive but not Toxic per se.
If you smell it, avoid it, if you don't smell it, it should be safe, at least outdoors.
NOx are a different class, but if you use the bottle setup, with say 2-3 bottles with water/Peroxide mix,
all fumes will be scrubbed as long as you don't overdo the Nitric.
But you need a stable vacuum system, best is the e-ductor and a waterpump in a tank.

 

[ólom]

HCl fumes are certain and corrosive but not Toxic per se.
If you smell it, avoid it, if you don't smell it, it should be safe, at least outdoors.
NOx are a different class, but if you use the bottle setup, with say 2-3 bottles with water/Peroxide mix,
all fumes will be scrubbed as long as you don't overdo the Nitric.
But you need a stable vacuum system, best is the e-ductor and a waterpump in a tank.

Do you have to use hydrogen peroxide or does it work without it?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Do you have to use hydrogen peroxide or does it work without it?

Of course it works without, but with Peroxide the conversion from NOx to Nitric is better.

 

[J.Najam]

HCl fumes are certain and corrosive but not Toxic per se.
If you smell it, avoid it, if you don't smell it, it should be safe, at least outdoors.
NOx are a different class, but if you use the bottle setup, with say 2-3 bottles with water/Peroxide mix,
all fumes will be scrubbed as long as you don't overdo the Nitric.
But you need a stable vacuum system, best is the e-ductor and a waterpump in a tank.

The fumes will most be certainly be touching metals and plants before moving anywhere else Ill have to take care of that.

I'll do a lookup on the concentration of peroxide/water solution but can the same be used for HCl fumes or should I prepare a new solution in different bottles for that?

 

[Yggdrasil]

The fumes will most be certainly be touching metals and plants before moving anywhere else Ill have to take care of that.

I'll do a lookup on the concentration of peroxide/water solution but can the same be used for HCl fumes or should I prepare a new solution in different bottles for that?

It should be caustic so the fumes are neutralized.

 

[J.Najam]

It should be caustic so the fumes are neutralized.

I'm sorry but I think you misunderstood the question or the answer seems too short for what I seek. You mentioned above that NOx gas mixed with peroxide/water would make nitric. So will the same solution be ok for Hcl fume or should I make and use a different solution for that?