Everything (hopefully) you ever wanted to know about XRF

[GuyGuyGuythe1st]

It is still not the density, but the exited electrons from the different shells and the energy they release in reaction to the incoming energy from the source.
One can say that there is a certain correlation between the density and the electron shells. But it still is not the density that are read.

I think I might have misspoke in my original comment. Density of elements only affects heavy elements on older XRF handheld model's because not all them had the ability to agitate Alpha, Beta and Gamma particles. Leading to misidentification of alloys.

Light elements such as Phosphorus or Silica also have trouble reading due to the bombardment reaction being so little the sensors/filters can’t read it.

Bench top models are way more accurate. If you are looking to invest I’d would tell anybody reading it. Handheld XRF’s are for convenience and spot checks.

Example: If you work in a machine shop, stainless steel bar stock all look the same. Handheld is great for verification. Especially because some alloys differ greatly in hardness due to elements composition. (I may have seen a CNC machine or two crash in my day)

Bench models are used for validation and verification. It will easily identify gold alloys for instance if you owned a cash for gold business.

 

[kurtak]

Bench top models are way more accurate. If you are looking to invest I’d would tell anybody reading it. Handheld XRF’s are for convenience and spot checks.

Hmmm - that kind of depends on the programming of the XRF whether it is a desk top or hand held --- doesn't it?

Kurt

 

[anachronism]

Hmmm - that kind of depends on the programming of the XRF whether it is a desk top or hand held --- doesn't it?

Kurt

It does Kurt. There are also specific "electronics" programme packages available now to combat errors such as Pd showing up as Ir amongst other issues from a precious metals package.

 

[GuyGuyGuythe1st]

Hmmm - that kind of depends on the programming of the XRF whether it is a desk top or hand held --- doesn't it?

Kurt

Hmmm - that kind of depends on the programming of the XRF whether it is a desk top or hand held --- doesn't it?

Kurt

Kurt,

To answer your question. From my experience. Both Bench Models and Handheld XRF machines all hook into a computer to print/evaluate data taken during testing.

When I refer to handheld and bench models I am talking this:

Handheld: https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/xrf-analyzers/handheld/

Bench Model: https://hha.hitachi-hightech.com/en/campaigns/ppc/benchtop-bulk-analysers

Why are Bench Models more accurate than handheld versions?

To simply answer the question in engineering terms. Handhelds break Abbe’s law when measuring due to user error. Bench modes follow linear measurements leading to reduced measurement error or measurement uncertainty.

https://www.ies.org/definitions/abbes-law/

I’ll post some of the scientific literature later to understand machine specifications compared to alloys to be tested. Also if that answers your question. Gold is a dense element you want a machine to be able to pierce into the exhibit deep enough so you can get a good understanding of the elements composition.

 

[goldandsilver123]

I think I might have misspoke in my original comment. Density of elements only affects heavy elements on older XRF handheld model's because not all them had the ability to agitate Alpha, Beta and Gamma particles. Leading to misidentification of alloys.

Light elements such as Phosphorus or Silica also have trouble reading due to the bombardment reaction being so little the sensors/filters can’t read it.

Bench top models are way more accurate. If you are looking to invest I’d would tell anybody reading it. Handheld XRF’s are for convenience and spot checks.

Example: If you work in a machine shop, stainless steel bar stock all look the same. Handheld is great for verification. Especially because some alloys differ greatly in hardness due to elements composition. (I may have seen a CNC machine or two crash in my day)

Bench models are used for validation and verification. It will easily identify gold alloys for instance if you owned a cash for gold business.

Alpha particles are helium nucleus, Beta particles is electrons, gamma radiation is NOT X-rays, they are much more energetic, and they interact with the nucleus not the electrosphere.

None of those radiation is produced by a normal XRF, being handheld or benchtop.

Very old models used Radioactive Isotopes to generate the secondary X-rays.

Light elements are hard to read because the quantum yield for fluorescence is low AND air absorb the low energy x-rays.

 

[GuyGuyGuythe1st]

Alpha particles are helium nucleus, Beta particles is electrons, gamma radiation is NOT X-rays, they are much more energetic, and they interact with the nucleus not the electrosphere.

None of those radiation is produced by a normal XRF, being handheld or benchtop.

Very old models used Radioactive Isotopes to generate the secondary X-rays.

Light elements are hard to read because the quantum yield for fluorescence is low AND air absorb the low energy x-rays.


View attachment 62085

I think it autocorrected my spelling. X-rays are incorrect like you said. I didn’t realize the typo. I meant to say rays. Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays are all wavelengths and are measured as so.

Alpha particles are helium nucleus, Beta particles is electrons, gamma radiation is NOT X-rays, they are much more energetic, and they interact with the nucleus not the electrosphere.

None of those radiation is produced by a normal XRF, being handheld or benchtop.

Very old models used Radioactive Isotopes to generate the secondary X-rays.

Light elements are hard to read because the quantum yield for fluorescence is low AND air absorb the low energy x-rays.


View attachment 62085

You are correct. It was a typo on my end. I meant to say rays. Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays are used to create an analysis. They’re all wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum. All are measured in different wavelength.

https://www.edinst.com/blog/what-is-a-spectrometer/

 

[Nouran Alaa]

What is the protocol for sample holding with liquids?

How to scratch a bar properly for analysis? is using drill possible if it creates a deep hole in the bar or does the surface have to be straight?

 

[Yggdrasil]

How to scratch a bar properly for analysis? is using drill possible if it creates a deep hole in the bar or does the surface have to be straight?

With respect to XRF or other?

Edit to add:
I think that not much is needed for an accurate XRF reading.
Just rub it slightly.