Extracting platinum, rhodium, palladium together

[samuel-a]

On that notion, check this patent out:
US 7,166,145 B1
example 1,6 and 7

Hopefully you could come up with some answers (or questions :mrgreen: ) in that file.

It was not my intention to refute your claim about having a buyer paying those rates for mixed PGM's.
I might have been a bit hasty, not taking into account that PGM's end products have a big added value when commercially sold. seems that you cut out a few middle men along the way...
I'm not in the spent cat's business, i just know what a pain it is (but also fun) to refine PGM's compared to silver and gold.

No offense meant mate.

 

[greatgems]

Yes that outfit says they refine the cats in house so I purchased 1000 cats from supplier in California ship to QC just to find out they shipped them back to Texas where they stated all 1000 cats where pre leached they told us we get 1/3 of there value If that wasn't bad enough after that we reviewed the pictures we took of the cats and identified at best 2-5% of the cats looked like they had a small chance of being Leached so what we believe happened was they took the few ones that where leached or yeild low and send them off for assay then gave us a value of 30000 vs the 90000 we expected and they originally quoted us. The thing that bothered me was they told us they assayed them in house then when the 1000 arrived they changed there tune. Long story short unprofessional company we got stuck in a bad place and on top of it they claim 88% yeild but we know what we sent to them even if 2/3 of the material was all missing we netted like 75 percent then they paid out another 3 percent less and in usd after quoting in cdn making us take another $1000 loss I much rather extract the pgm myself using the refiners I trust and have used for years.

 

[rusty]

Expensive lesson, why did you send your material to the refinery without an independent assay. Surely if you could afford to lay out the cash for 1000 cats the assay would have been peanuts.

Who is to say the refiners assay was not accurate when you have nothing to back it up with, cant say that I feel for your loss when your expectations were based on a whim. Next time use science to back you up, protect your investment.

It is a known fact that there are PGM losses over the lifetime of the cat, maybe you purchased high mile cats.

Regards
Rusty

 

[greatgems]

I understand the losses over time and this firm promised to do an assay in house and process cats but they didn't that do anything in house

 

[skippy]

edit - removed premature conclusion

 

[Oz]

Greatgems,
What “outfit” are we talking about here that you sold to? Skippy posted a link to PMR and if that is not who you sold to, they do not deserve the bad reputation.

 

[skippy]

Thanks Oz, you are right, poor behaviour on my part.

I would like to say though, there is no need to put quotations around outfit. Perfectly acceptable english useage.


out·fit
   /ˈaʊtˌfɪt/ Show Spelled [out-fit] Show IPA noun, verb, -fit·ted, -fit·ting.
–noun
1.
an assemblage of articles that equip a person for a particular task, role, trade, etc.: an explorer's outfit.
2.
a set of usually matching or harmonious garments and accessories worn together; coordinated costume; ensemble: a new spring outfit.
3.
a set of articles for any purpose: a cooking outfit.
4.
a group associated in an undertaking requiring close cooperation, as a military unit.
5.
a business firm engaged in a particular form of commercial enterprise: a construction outfit.
6.
any company, party, or set.

 

[skippy]

Greatgems, I hope you don't mind me asking a question, one that's not likely really all that relevant, but why did you buy your cats from California?
I gather you are from my part of the continent, and if I needed a thousand cats, my first impulse would not necessarily be take-a-plane-to-California.

 

[Oz]

I would like to say though, there is no need to put quotations around outfit. Perfectly acceptable english useage.

I am aware of that. I was quoting Greatgems choice of words at the beginning of his post at 12:14am. Hence the quotation marks.

It is indeed best that nobody jumps to any conclusions as to the name of this company given the accusations that have been put forward, until Greatgems tells us.

 

[greatgems]

I'd love as much simple extraction and persipitaion methods as possible but what I will do is post rue whole tramsactionit was an expensive but interesting learning experience. My problem is with how pmr sold us on how it's all done in house and how we could see the process. Then when we got to the point where the cats arrived all they did in there building was decan well he'll I could of done that. They then stated we couldn't watch even part of the assay or extraction process because it happened in Texas I have delt with 3 large refiners for pgm in Canada in my time and never thought that this would of been part of the issue

 

[rusty]

I have delt with 3 large refiners for pgm in Canada in my time and never thought that this would of been part of the issue

Greatgems, care to name your sources, the " three " PGM refiners located in CANADA. To the best of my knowledge there are none. prove me wrong.

If you sold to the Canadian Mint who did you broker through.

You have not read the forum very well, it has been written that anyone sending large lots to a refinery can hire an UMPIRE to watch over the process. Secondly you failed to obtain an independent assay.

You did not do your homework, when the decanner in Canada informed you that you could not witness the assay WHY did you not pull the plug on a $1000,000.00 deal. Are you that careless with your money.

Regards
Rusty

 

[Lou]

I guarantee you there are PGM refiners in Canada, and VERY big refiners at that.

Don't forget Sudsbury! Where do you think the INCO process was developed?

greatgems,

I'll help you if I can some time. Just PM me on details next time you do this.


Best,

Louis

 

[rusty]

I guarantee you there are PGM refiners in Canada, and VERY big refiners at that.

Don't forget Sudsbury! Where do you think the INCO process was developed?

greatgems,

I'll help you if I can some time. Just PM me on details next time you do this.


Best,

Louis

I apologize for my hastiness, but I'm very troubled with the fact there could have been a mix of after market, domestic and foreign cats in that 1000 lot and that greatgems relied on the refiners assay without having and independent assay done.

He sent the cats in whole, in my opinion they should have been de-canned by greatgems then milled into a homogenized mix for a proper assay. How can you rely on an assay from 1 or 2 cats taken from a lot of 1000.

Regards
Rusty

 

[greatgems]

This has gotten way off topic the 1000 cats where evaluated at $95,000 so instead of assuming the value is really low which it wasnt.

Next i know how to sell gold refiners and assayers i can deal with if needed

Express Gold ( buys for JM ) I Find there Payouts amazingly fast and fair. if shipments are to large they take you directly to JM
Imperial Gold
Used to be able to go to Handy and Harman but since they ran into financial problem it was good to skip them
Royal Canadian Mint will take Huge shipments only of Gold Right Now usually take 100 kilos plus

Here in Canada there are no Cat Refiners i looked called everyone so thats why i went with PMR they said they where but all they did was out sourse there assay and refining. The way things where handled i couldnt watch nore over see the process this is why i want to extract the all the precious metals myself will start a little smaller and work my way up this time. When i say i have a buyer for the mixed metals i will either sell the bars of Platinum and Palladium, and rhodium seperate as it seems. i might seperate the metals later after having lots now my goal is just to buy cats from arround this part of ontario at decent prices. I have great cataloge and price lists from the refiners and know pretty much the market and metal values of each cat so please dont worry about that i just want to get the metals out the cat simplest way and safest way i can.

I will post at a later day my tales of this deal go bad but back to the main topic

 

[HAuCl4]

I would think the process depends on the type of substrate, ceramic or metallic, that the PGM metals are attached to. :?:

For ceramic, I have a couple of good ideas, for metallic I'm not so sure. :roll:

Do you have an accurate estimate of the amount value of the metals involved and of the profit margin?. $95,000 doesn't ay much for someone buying at 50% discount or 20% discount, etc.

 

[greatgems]

95000 was the value of my 1000 cat shipment if it haddent been leached and if the buyer didn't take us to town but that will be another thread some day I usually buy at a 50 to 25 percent discount here in Canada

 

[HAuCl4]

Are you positive those used cats have around $200 each in precious metals?. It seems a bit rich, but I do not have a good idea at the moment. Looking to learn more.

If ceramic, a good boil for 4-5 hours in concentrated sulphuric acid in a cast iron kettle would get the Rh, and then a good boil in HCl-H2O2 in a resin-fiberglass kettle for another 4-5 hours would get the Pt and Pd. Recovering an unrefined metal powder from the liquids afterwards is straightforward.

If metallic my plan is too complicated. Looking to learn a simple way to do it. 8)

 

[Lou]

Sulfuric acid also dissolve palladium.


One must pre-reduce the converter substrate to get the PdO to Pd before it can be leached efficiently. Unfortunately, doing so decreases the rhodium recovery, as Rh metal is much more difficult to solubilize than Rh2O3/RhO2.


Lou

 

[greatgems]

No the average value was 95000 I paid less

 

[HAuCl4]

The cats usually have only either Pt, Pd, or Rh right?. It would seem stupid to have all 3 in the same cat no?. If so, it would be a big advantage to know which cats have what precious metal, and bundle them accordingly. No?. :idea:

Learning more as we speak... 8)