Failed! POOR'S MAN NITRIC ACID

[orvi]

https://www.911metallurgist.com/blo...ept,when these are present in a silver alloy. this is the site they say sulfuric acid when meet nitric acid will dissolve the gold this mean THA POORS MAN NITRIC ACID is not the best choice because the nitric acid formed will react with interacted sulfuric acid and will dissolve the gold

I never done poorman´s nitric on gold plated material, but I doubt H2SO4/nitrate would dissolve gold, if no chlorides are present. Maybe traces of gold. Even boiling concentrated nitric can dissolve traces of gold, but it cannot stabilize the gold in solution so it is unstable and re-drop when cooled or diluted.

 

[Shark]

Thanks Orvi, this reminds me that when using this it is critical to get the mixture right. To much of a chemical does shift the balance of how it works. It can create sulfates that have the ability to trap some pm’s, and I am sure the nitrates have the ability as well. Add in that using less than pure chemicals can compound things further.

 

[mythen10]

How do you know so exactly that your fingers contain more than 5g/kg gold ? Did you analyzed them ? Because it is fairly common, that fingers can yield around 2g/kg if they are new. I have experience with all kinds of fingers (RAM, PC card, new, older, Soviet-era etc.) and yields fluctuate quite a bit. I had batches of old fingers that gave me around 6g/kg, but these were no means comparable to modern PC stuff. Average for newer types for me is around 2-3,5g/kg.

Problem could hide in used salts and acid. You can use the purest demineralized water existing, but if you use tech grade sulfuric acid and tech grade nitrate, there is no surprise that chlorides could be present. It is sufficient to have just few decimals of % chloride content in acid or nitrate (I assume contamined nitrate) to solubilize some gold.

And if it happened (gold dissolved in solution), it would be nearly impossible to do it standard way with urea/sulfamic and SMB. Vast portion of salts in the solution are nitrates - for SMB to work, you need acidic pH. Any common acid like sulfuric acid will liberate some free nitric, which will start to re-dissolve the gold. And killing that quantity of nitric acid with sulfamic acid would be fairly wasteful and inefficient.

Only things that came to my mind is to adjust the pH to just slightly acidic and cement the values on copper. But I never done this personally in this situation. Or use the formate reduction method (it run also with high nitrate concentrations).

I know the fingers have more than 5g per kg , I process a lot and me I have mixed fingers(the ram fingers contain less) and me I cut all the board who don't contain gold plated I cut at mm, and is normal like 1 kg of my fingers to have more gold than another fingers who have boards material on it without gold plate, I'm perfectionist.

 

[Shark]

Here is a button I worked out using this method back early last year. It takes a lot of extra work and effort, but can be made to do a pretty decent job when out of nitric acid.

Button using this method

 

[orvi]

I know the fingers have more than 5g per kg , I process a lot and me I have mixed fingers(the ram fingers contain less) and me I cut all the board who don't contain gold plated I cut at mm, and is normal like 1 kg of my fingers to have more gold than another fingers who have boards material on it without gold plate, I'm perfectionist.

I just wanted to say that e-scrap is highly inconsistent material in terms of precise yielding. I burnt myself many times when purchasing fingers
For future, if you have week or two to process, I would stick to AP. Cheapest method, when done right no gold is dissolved. If you have place for one or two buckets, of course (which I do not have, sadly).

 

[mythen10]

I just wanted to say that e-scrap is highly inconsistent material in terms of precise yielding. I burnt myself many times when purchasing fingers
For future, if you have week or two to process, I would stick to AP. Cheapest method, when done right no gold is dissolved. If you have place for one or two buckets, of course (which I do not have, sadly).

first rule: is not worth to purchase ewaste from internet

 

[mythen10]

I just wanted to say that e-scrap is highly inconsistent material in terms of precise yielding. I burnt myself many times when purchasing fingers
For future, if you have week or two to process, I would stick to AP. Cheapest method, when done right no gold is dissolved. If you have place for one or two buckets, of course (which I do not have, sadl

now are a lot of junkyards who recycle e waste couple years ago I don't heard about e waste recycling in Romania ( don't was any ewaste junkyard in Romania now are a lot , Romania is a country in which first SUPERMARKET was open in 1999)

 

[mythen10]

I just wanted to say that e-scrap is highly inconsistent material in terms of precise yielding. I burnt myself many times when purchasing fingers
For future, if you have week or two to process, I would stick to AP. Cheapest method, when done right no gold is dissolved. If you have place for one or two buckets, of course (which I do not have, sadly).

in AMERICA are a lot of good source for ewaste

 

[Martijn]

Then you: 1 did not make poor mans nitric, but something else.
2: do not understand what you are doing.

Please present your plan before you start experimenting or copying a video because it looks soooo easy.

Still using urea? why?

Monkey see monkey do, monkey died or horribly maimed and scarred for life.

Stop and study please. Forget you tube.

 

[Yggdrasil]

now are a lot of junkyards who recycle e waste couple years ago I don't heard about e waste recycling in Romania ( don't was any ewaste junkyard in Romania now are a lot , Romania is a country in which first SUPERMARKET was open in 1999)

I’m a bit confused. You make the same quote twice, and then drag in Romania.
Things are different in different countries, that is sure.
And as Orvi said AP is better with anything regarding PCB.
It takes a bit of time but is cleaner, cheaper and better suited.

As Martijn said, if you say what you have and present a plan on what to accomplish we can give advise.

A exact yield from any set of anything in e-waste is at best based on lucky guessing.
Unless you have all fingers from the same kind of cards produced in the same batch, which may happen, but is unlikely.

Have you studied and read Hoke in your break?

 

[mythen10]

I’m a bit confused. You make the same quote twice, and then drag in Romania.
Things are different in different countries, that is sure.
And as Orvi said AP is better with anything regarding PCB.
It takes a bit of time but is cleaner, cheaper and better suited.

As Martijn said, if you say what you have and present a plan on what to accomplish we can give advise.

A exact yield from any set of anything in e-waste is at best based on lucky guessing.
Unless you have all fingers from the same kind of cards produced in the same batch, which may happen, but is unlikely.

Have you studied and read Hoke in your break?

hoke nope , right now I wait to have time to read phikal

 

[Yggdrasil]

hoke nope , right now I wait to have time to read phikal

What does phikal mean?

 

[mythen10]

I’m a bit confused. You make the same quote twice, and then drag in Romania.
Things are different in different countries, that is sure.
And as Orvi said AP is better with anything regarding PCB.
It takes a bit of time but is cleaner, cheaper and better suited.

As Martijn said, if you say what you have and present a plan on what to accomplish we can give advise.

A exact yield from any set of anything in e-waste is at best based on lucky guessing.
Unless you have all fingers from the same kind of cards produced in the same batch, which may happen, but is unlikely.

Have you studied and read Hoke in your b

What does phikal mean?

pihkal is a book written by Dr. Alexander Shlugin

 

[Yggdrasil]

pihkal is a book written by Dr. Alexander Shlugin

Well it may certainly be interesting enough, especially if one has aspiration in psychedelica.
But I doubt it has much relevance to refining, even though there may be references to good lab training and techniques.
Hokes may have given you clues to why you are struggling in your current endeavour.

 

[Shark]

https://www.911metallurgist.com/blo...ept,when these are present in a silver alloy.
Having quick read this it does not say refine gold (in the simplest meaning of the word) with sulfuric acid. It is using sulfuric acid to part inquartered gold, such as when refining karat gold and adding silver. Instead of using nitric acid, being the common method, hot, concentrated sulfuric acid is used to replace the nitric. Thanks for posting it, I will read it again a few times as it seems to be holding quite a bit of interesting information concerning another project I have been working at for sometime.

 

[orvi]

hoke nope , right now I wait to have time to read phikal

Seems like chemistry got you from all sides
Psychadelics and refining do not mix well. Trust me.

 

[orvi]

now are a lot of junkyards who recycle e waste couple years ago I don't heard about e waste recycling in Romania ( don't was any ewaste junkyard in Romania now are a lot , Romania is a country in which first SUPERMARKET was open in 1999)

I don´t think it isn´t running in Romania. Post-Soviet country with immense ammounts of old electronic equipment, full of PMs. It is certainly well running (and was for quite a long time) in Ukraine, Bulgaria, Russia... I don´t think Romania is any exception.

 

[mythen10]

I don´t think it isn´t running in Romania. Post-Soviet country with immense ammounts of old electronic equipment, full of PMs. It is certainly well running (and was for quite a long time) in Ukraine, Bulgaria, Russia... I don´t think Romania is any exception.

Romania sucks you can't find ewaste.
Are some places where the people sell used stuff but there you can find only gipsy and old people who sell clothes and old broken phones with 5 euro and rarely you see somebody who sell a pentium 4 motherboard with 10 euro the people are crazy I was 2 month ago in Romania and I was in a place like this and people sell only junk.
You can not find Soviet stuff with pd becouse the communist Romania was a closed country like North Korea in this days.
Only one thing is possible to make to speak with somebody from junkyards and buy just the BGA chips or 3 leg transistor with 10 cents that big one becouse the price of iron is 14 cents an for more people will be worth to look on old stuff for transistors.

 

[orvi]

Romania sucks you can't find ewaste.
Are some places where the people sell used stuff but there you can find only gipsy and old people who sell clothes and old broken phones with 5 euro and rarely you see somebody who sell a pentium 4 motherboard with 10 euro the people are crazy I was 2 month ago in Romania and I was in a place like this and people sell only junk.
You can not find Soviet stuff with pd becouse the communist Romania was a closed country like North Korea in this days.
Only one thing is possible to make to speak with somebody from junkyards and buy just the BGA chips or 3 leg transistor with 10 cents that big one becouse the price of iron is 14 cents an for more people will be worth to look on old stuff for transistors.

It is fairly normal that e-waste isn´t seen in obvious places. You need to build network of connections to make fair volume, and scrapyards and other easily looked channels will be no help for you - most of the times, they have deals with other well establish guys in the field. So they don´t leave anything for you. Unless you make better offer - which is in most cases to buy bulk - everything for a good price. What small scale beginner cannot do with limited budget.

Same where I live. Also Eastern Europe. You need to build name and trust in order to proceed to collectors who have decent quantities of material. Use internet marketplaces to advertise yourself etc. Be creative, fair and honest. It is uncommon in this field to find trustworthy, fair and honest refiner, who does the job in time and for fair revenue. People know this and the right ones stick to you.
Work smart, not hard - that is the rule which apply in this business.

I also do not find old soviet material by myself. But I found people who have access to such material in fair quantities and are willing to sell it to me. For fair price of course. No shorts, no low-balls, fair deals - they know what they are selling.

It start very slow from beginning, but as you go, you gain experience, in chemistry, apparatus build-up, negotiation, selling PMs etc.
For me, it took few years to cross the boarderline - that I do not spend time to search for the material, but other people came with it to let it refined or purchased by me. By the time, you are left with few trusty people that supply the material to you on semi-regular basis, and that is probably the best operating model for small refiner. Something bit more than hobby, but not your primary income.

 

[Alondro]

This is new to me, any one else?

Usually when people use poormans they use only nitrates and water.
Sulfuric comes in to play when they try to make Nitric from Nitrates.
And then either use the freezing or distillation method the get cleanish Nitric.

I've heard of that method. How well does it actually work to produce nitric acid that way?