First attempt at AR refining failed - please help

[gold4mike]

We are living in the age of entitlement. This guy is an example of the result.

 

[lazersteve]

It seems like the instant hard work and long term commitment get involved, the real winners step up and show their true colors while the arm chair experts fade into the background noise.

Steve

 

[xodiax]

All I can say at this point, is that is a good thing we don't live in China, where the information is very hard to get on the inter-net. I'll bet though, that Real artisans would be more willing to apprentice someone who is new to this art, by inter-net or not. Knowledge IS power, if you share your knowledge it can only make you stronger.

I believe that when I refer someone to "keep reading", I would at least point them in the right direction, rather than "drop-kick" them so as not to interfere with my ever-valuable time and energy. "I've got more important things to do, like run a forum". I heard that, in one form or another.

We are not baking cakes, but make mistakes just the same.

"Don't play with those matches, until you know how to use them" I'll either get burned, or someone will show me How to be careful.

It is way to easy to forget where it is that we came from, the mistakes we made, and the costs we incurred. Someone who considers themselves a "teacher" can teach from experience while guiding the student from making the same mistakes of the (our) past.
My two pesos.

How about a poll?

 

[lazersteve]

Xodiax,

If you read my first reply you'll see I pointed him to the reading that would help and then I added more information as to which processes will work best and which ones he should avoid. Within the Guided Tour are links on how to search the forum, which chemicals correspond to each name and their use, a semi-autonomous post that consolidates common search subjects into one post, a copy of Hokes book, the forum rules, and much much more. There is even a great thread on Safety in the Guided Tour. I even went as far as to guide him as to how much scrap to obtain so he will achieve measurable results.

Where do you see that anyone 'drop kicked' him because they were too busy to reply?

I feel he fell off of the wagon when he heard what Chris (GSP) thought about his poll. If you spend an hour or two looking through the forum main topics anyone can quickly see there is plenty of good refining information right here on the forum, for this simple reason his poll really makes about as much sense as "Is the sky blue?", since the obvious answer to his poll is no, hence there is no real reason to ask the question. I think that is the point GSP was trying to make, but maybe I'm wrong.


Steve

 

[jimdoc]

How about a poll on banning polls?
Or at least have them require moderator approval before being posted.

Jim

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

All I can say at this point, is that is a good thing we don't live in China, where the information is very hard to get on the inter-net. I'll bet though, that Real artisans would be more willing to apprentice someone who is new to this art, by inter-net or not. Knowledge IS power, if you share your knowledge it can only make you stronger.

I think you are not taking into consideration that "Real" artisans spend so much time perfecting their craft, that when they do take time out to answer a few questions on this board, they want to be precise in the information given, concise, to the point and don't have a lot of time to spend the hours upon hours required to teach someone the proper terminology, so that they then can effectively communicate how to process their material. In other words, if you have not read C. M. Hoke, or some other material that gives you a good understanding of what we are doing, then trying to help you will be near impossible.

I believe that when I refer someone to "keep reading", I would at least point them in the right direction, rather than "drop-kick" them so as not to interfere with my ever-valuable time and energy. "I've got more important things to do, like run a forum". I heard that, in one form or another.

I don't think new people realize how much this information on this forum is really worth. Lets try to put things into perspective. Most of the information you can search and read on this forum is information that is published nowhere else. I have spoken with 3 people who consult in this industry, teach and train people in person how to do this type of work. They all charge $1,000 per day to do this. There are very good reasons why they can command these fees, and I am sure you can figure out the why all on your own. So consider any help you might get by searching, and reading this forum as being very valuable information. Consider any help people are willing to give you, directly, even more expensive.

We are not baking cakes, but make mistakes just the same.

Making mistakes doing this type of work, cannot compare with cakes. If you put too much flour in a cake, you can easily fix it. If you make a mistake doing this type of work, it could cause you serious health problems or even death. This is not a game, this isn't changing oil in your car, this isn't a craft project you can just jump into with some paper and a little elmers glue and make money doing.

"Don't play with those matches, until you know how to use them" I'll either get burned, or someone will show me How to be careful.

Or maybe you will watch and learn, or even better yet, maybe you will READ, everyone that comes to this forum can read and write, so maybe you will read this forum, or books, and learn before you attempt anything, read and learn so you know what questions to ask. But when you don't read, and ask questions that are easily solved by putting forth a little effort and reading it irritates people because many of the people on this forum are self taught and did so by, guess what, reading.

It is way to easy to forget where it is that we came from, the mistakes we made, and the costs we incurred. Someone who considers themselves a "teacher" can teach from experience while guiding the student from making the same mistakes of the (our) past.
My two pesos.

It's easier for the student to be taught by a teacher. It benefits the student, sure. But what you are really asking is for someone to give away their valuable time to hold someone's hand. Or another way to look at it would be like this, the teacher spends money (because they are not processing and their time is valuable) to teach the student, the student has all the benefit and incurs none of the cost. How is this exchange even fair. Now consider how many people are willing to give of their valuable time, freely, without any implied compensation at all. That is being exceedingly generous. They are giving money away in the form of information, experience, and teaching. Handing it out to complete and total strangers without any expectations of payment, or other compensation. Truly, I think many new people to this forum have no clue the gold mind

Corrected, I actually meant mine, but I like the way it sounds with "mind" better

they have stumbled across.

We are dealing with metals, with fire, with heat, with acids that can damage and kill, with processes that are complex and sensitive, with chemistry that is considered advanced. We are not making delicate silk flowers. We work physically, and intellectually with little time left over to consider a grown adults emotional complexities, if you want advice then accept it when it's given and say thank you. If you were starving and someone threw you a loaf of bread, would you then complain that it wasn't handed to you, on a plate, with butter and knife to spread it with and by the way where is your napkin? No, you would thank them. Information is food for the mind. If you post on this forum you have to expect the people here are going to treat you like an adult that has enough maturity to be able to handle criticism. If you cannot handle criticism, or you believe just because this forum exists you are entitled to your questions being answered right away, then you might want to re-think attempting this. This is really the only place you can interact with people who do this professionally, and is the only internet archive of this type of information, anywhere. I think the one thing that irritates me more than just about anything else, is when I see someone new demand answers as if they are entitled, the sense of entitlement that some new members seem to possess, goes far beyond what could be considered offensive.

My own two cents...

Scott

 

[its-all-a-lie]

Truly, I think many new people to this forum have no clue the gold mind they have stumbled across.

This forum is truly a "gold mind", it is the mind of all the refiners who are members here. I personally appreciate all the information that has been posted here for everyone to use for free, without it i would not have a clue about any of these processes and im sure i am not the only one who can say this.

 

[Geo]

i have to laugh. :lol: there are two individuals here that has had difficulty in finding good information on precious metal recovery techniques. please dont be afraid to speak up. i swear no one will deride you or make bad commentary. if you are having difficulties in finding good information about precious metal recovery here, i can point you to some good information. hey, heres some right here. i found this just laying on the floor. http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs how about pick it up and brush it off and sit down with a hot cup of coffee (or a cold beer) and have a good read.

 

[Golddigger Greg]

Funny, I too found a copy of that laying around my first day here; what are the odds? :mrgreen:

 

[butcher]

xodiax,
Welcome to the forum, and the best place (probably the only place) to learn an art of precious metal recovery and refining, kept secret from man since man since the beginning of history, I think you will find this forum very friendly and helpful, but you will also find we do not put up with any Bull malarky or other nonsense.

This forum is willing to help any new member learn a craft kept secret from mankind, many of the members have spent lifetime learning, and are very willing to help anyone, the combined members have stored a database of information on the forum that most colleges would not have on a subject.

Anyone coming to this forum that truly wishes to learn this subject will, and they also would be very grateful for all of the help the members of the forum provide.Anyone coming here with a prideful attitude, give it to me for free I am entitled attitude, argumentative attitude, how can we scam you attitude, Etcetera will not last long.

Members here spend countless hours helping others, they do not have to, they are also very patient with new members, and do guide them to get them started, no they do not hand them a new brain filled with information of this subject on a silver platter, but they do provide a silver platter of information for free.

This guy was booted because he was a troublemaker, he really did not want to learn, and he insulted the forum and its members.

I would have helped the man if he really wanted to learn, but when he spoke the way he did to GSP, He showed he was not here to learn, he was here to get a free ride, and cause trouble while doing it, if things did not go his way, the forum does not need to waste its resources on those not willing to learn or study,

This guy also insulted the whole forum when he spoke to GSP in the manner he did,GSP who is one of the members who has spent countless hours helping others, given information he acquired in a lifetime of hard work and study, spends time as moderator to help keep the forum running smoothly, and would have helped this guy if he truly was wanted to learn.


When members join this forum they are joining a community of people willing to help others, this community spends a lot of time trying to help other members, and we probably spend more time tying to help new members get started, this is done in a friendly manner, the information is provided, heck they have thousands of pages of information provided, all of their questions are answered many times over and over again.

Members do not look down on another, or a new member because they do not know something yet about this craft, but they will also point out the fact that your going the wrong way, and may endanger yourself or others, they are quick to correct false information, they will tell you if you have ideas that are totally wrong for you to have the ability to recover or refine metals, or are doing something that can harm you or others, this is not done in malice, it is done to help the person see they are on the wrong path, and to steer them back to a path of common sense where they can learn this craft safely.

xodiax,
I hope you enjoy being a member of this community of people helping others, also I think you should reserve judgment about this until you spend a little time here on this forum and see the whole picture.

 

[RGJohn]

I hate most polls. If you had difficulty finding good information on Precious Metal Recovery Techniques, its 100% your own fault. I know its overwhelming but its all here. All you have to do is search for it. Some people read for a year before trying to tackle it.

I appoligize for insulting your intelligence with a poll and asking for more help but I thought that was why I was here in the first place. I am new to this and dont think that criticism is a good motivator
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.... well critisism DOES sting. But then, when we're wrong, we're wrong. So what are they to do, tell us we're right when we're not? How's that gonna work?
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, but anyway if it takes a year of reading to get the information I need from this board I'm not sure I want to waste my time here, just sayin'.
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Friend, In my estimation, a year spent here, reading and little more, is time well spent. Implement what one reads upon a small scale. Make your mistakes with the physical/mechanical aspects with silver rather than something more expensive. The skills and expertise that these nice folks GIFT us are hard won and priceless. Please respect that.
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I will take the advice that Steve offered but please dont treat me like an idiot when I am trying to learn something you are offering to teach me. Not very logical!
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They DO NOT treat us as idiots. They offer assistance to those who would be assisted. I have found that the single greatest impediment to my advancement continues to be myself. I am trying to reform myself to become a supplicant, eager and able to learn, rather than one who would demand, expect, or require from those who graciously share. I am slowly learning that when 'it doesn't work as expected' the problem is my expectation.
There is a very clear logic to all of this. We have to learn what the considerations are that are applicable, then apply that logic. It does work. Repeatedly and always the same way. Not always the way that one might wish it would though and therein lies the problem. It ain't the 'what', it's the 'who'.
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Thanks!
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We are in 100% agreement on this. Thanks, thanks, thanks.
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