Non-Chemical Flux

[sayf]

sayf

first of all - smelting ores & smelting actual metals (like pins) are two COMPLETELY different things

I will say this one more time - smelting pins & the burned plastic - with that flux - will do NOTHING but slag of the ash &/or carbon from the burned plastic & ALL the metals will melt TOGETHER giving you an ALLOY of all the metals --- Period

Second - pulling some pictures off the internet - & then "claiming" a friend of yours did this as proof of what you WANT to be true - DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE --- in fact trying to pull the wool over our eyes with such a B.S. stunt makes you a "liar" --- in other words - I don't need to think &/or assume that you are lying --- you busted yourself by trying to pull such a stunt

Concerning one of those pictures (that you pulled off the internet) you said ----

that layer is gold i already tested it with nitric acid

Please tell me how you go about "testing" the metal in a picture that you have pulled off the internet :?:

Now then - that said - I am always MORE THEN WILLING to help people that come hear to learn about the recovery & refining of PMs

However - I DO NOT suffer FOOLS --- in other words - I do NOT waste my time trying to help people that are dishonest (in the first place) - then post something hoping they will get confirmation of of what they THINK will work - instead of coming here to seek actual advice of how & what works so that they can actually learn how to do this

Therefore - you have two options --------

1) start by being honest with "yourself" so that you can be honest with us - so that your mind will open up to excepting the advice you are seeking in order to learn how to actually learn to do this with real success - or ----------

2) you can continue down this path of seeking confirmation (of what you THINK should work) in which case you will soon find members here will stop wasting their time trying to help someone (you) that is not actually here seeking help but is only here to get confirmation of what they think works

One thing is for sure --- this is my last post to you - unless you are able to show me that you are actually here seeking REAL advice - willing to listen & learn

In other words - there are easier ways to teach you - then wasting my time arguing about something you THINK you know

Edit to add; - sayf --- you need to understand that the internet is FULL of misinformation &/or incomplete information --- here on this forum you will find "actual" information given to (new) members by members that have been "actually" DOING this for YEARS including a good many of members here that do this "for a living" &/or did but are now retired from doing this "as a living" --- in other words - they are ether currently making money doing this everyday - or they have spent their life everyday to make a living (money) doing this --- don't you think you should listen to the people that KNOW how to do this to make their everyday living

Kurt

Well thats a very long list of misunderstanding kurt i think you need to read my post well , if you have noticed the forum you will see that most of the posts in the last 5 months are made by me, if i am not a guy who is seeking knowledge as (you) think i wouldnt ask or post anything
i said that the first photo is from my friend and the others are from a specialist youtuber, any ways thank you for your reply.

 

[sayf]

Well, that explains where he got the pictures from. And as I wrote, ore is not the same thing as pins.

And a comment to that video, I don't think putting a frying pan on top of the furnace is counted as roasting the ore and driving off any sulfides. It's too cold for that. You need at least dull red heat with an oxidizing atmosphere.
Though it will dry out the concentrate, which is a good thing to do before you put anything into a furnace.

Göran

Cant we simply oxidize the copper in the pins while using silver as a collector? Will not that make a bullion with the right flux guran?

 

[g_axelsson]

Well, that explains where he got the pictures from. And as I wrote, ore is not the same thing as pins.

And a comment to that video, I don't think putting a frying pan on top of the furnace is counted as roasting the ore and driving off any sulfides. It's too cold for that. You need at least dull red heat with an oxidizing atmosphere.
Though it will dry out the concentrate, which is a good thing to do before you put anything into a furnace.

Göran

Cant we simply oxidize the copper in the pins while using silver as a collector? Will not that make a bullion with the right flux guran?

No, it's not that easy to oxidize copper. The flux will form a cover and the metal pool in the bottom of the crucible. The only place there
will be any chemical reactions is in the boundary between the slag and the metal.

If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Göran

 

[kurtak]

i have a master degree in physics so reading is always my first priority

If that is true - then you NEED to read these two threads :!:

:arrow: Smelting

:arrow: Pyrolysis reactor

Kurt

 

[Neroshakespere]

I came into this forum looking for advice on flux. However after reading the comments here I see that this forum is full of people that are not here to share knowledge but to discourage and insult people who simply are curious about certain avenues they should take when they have come to a point in their refining and or recovery. You individuals may have been doing this a long time and I will say have knowledge but that does not mean you should go talking to grown men and or women like you are the Gods of this science, and it is a science and science is ever changing and it is how we progress as a species. Case in point in Hockes book there is talk of using asbestos well we all know this is a huge no no however her work is considered the Bible of this science. So some of you need to get off your high horse and recognize that in 50 years someone will rewrite the book on this subject and may be calling your advice ignorant and your methods primitive. If you are not willing to teach then don’t but get over yourselves because I’m quite sure there are things you do not know and you would not want someone speaking to you as if you were some less than human sub species and for those who rebuttal with insults you only prove my point and if left to you we would have never walked on the moon and think the world is flat. I thought this was a place where it was a brotherhood of fellow enthusiasts. I was wrong and will not ever enter this narcissistic forum again. Ad Astra.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I came into this forum looking for advice on flux. However after reading the comments here I see that this forum is full of people that are not here to share knowledge but to discourage and insult people who simply are curious about certain avenues they should take when they have come to a point in their refining and or recovery. You individuals may have been doing this a long time and I will say have knowledge but that does not mean you should go talking to grown men and or women like you are the Gods of this science, and it is a science and science is ever changing and it is how we progress as a species. Case in point in Hockes book there is talk of using asbestos well we all know this is a huge no no however her work is considered the Bible of this science. So some of you need to get off your high horse and recognize that in 50 years someone will rewrite the book on this subject and may be calling your advice ignorant and your methods primitive. If you are not willing to teach then don’t but get over yourselves because I’m quite sure there are things you do not know and you would not want someone speaking to you as if you were some less than human sub species and for those who rebuttal with insults you only prove my point and if left to you we would have never walked on the moon and think the world is flat. I thought this was a place where it was a brotherhood of fellow enthusiasts. I was wrong and will not ever enter this narcissistic forum again. Ad Astra.

Sorry about your experience.
But you yourself has not asked much have you?
"Here in this forum we believe in learning members to fish rather than giving them a fish when they ask."
In other words we encourage everyone to self study.
And then ask questions when they need, rather than spoonfeeding them.

You could have shown the respect of getting the name of Hoke correct.

And yes there are a lot of references and techniques in her book that is considered unsafe or down right illegal today, but the chemistry is described in an easy to understand language.

And at the time she wrote the book there was no such things as e-waste so these things are processed by the same chemistry she knew with more modern techniques.

All this exists in this forum and is openly accessible to anyone looking for it.

So since you are talking about high horses, I would suggest avoiding mirrors in the future.

 

[Shark]

This may go to waste since he claims he won’t be back, but apparently he did not get the updated version of Hoke’s book. If he had he would have known that many, if not all of those mentioned errors had already been addressed. Thanks to Frugalrefiner, a member and moderator of this forum, for those who prefer to judge before checking.

 

[4metals]

Case in point in Hockes book there is talk of using asbestos well we all know this is a huge no no however her work is considered the Bible of this science.

The beauty of Hokes book is that it was written for the non chemist. That is the main reason it is suggested here because most members are not trained as chemists. And yes it is a dated book written many years ago, which is why some of it is not the best advice today, but the copy available here on the forum addresses those issues, making it a viable resource for the non chemist. There is no one “Bible” in the refining world, there are many good informative texts to show us the way. But there is no one way fits all method and if you came here for a definitive when X happens do Y, you may be expecting too much. To be proficient at refining you need to study the many suggestions and approaches and determine what can work best for you. If you are willing to read other opinions and ask questions you can gain a lot here. If not, maybe you will do better elsewhere.

 

[4metals]

So since you are talking about high horses, I would suggest avoiding mirrors in the future.

I like that line!!!!!

 

[jobinyt]

Neroshakespere - No matter how good perfect the science may be, the practice is imperfect. Things aren't pure. So, the practice/application of science is art - effort to find "good enough" is reality. Perfect scientific answers don't exist in an impure world.​