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Electrochemistry Gold from glasses frames: some final questions

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opt

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3
Hi folks!
I got quite a few goldcoated and gold plated glasses to scrap, about 100 of them, also a huge ammount of outdated goldcoated spareparts from glasses, temples and such. I thought electrolytic reverse plating, electrolysis is the way to go. But I gonna need a little help, so here come my questions:

What concentration should the hydrochloric acid be?

Do I need to also add hydorgen peroxide as often mentioned, and if I need it, in what concentration and whats the purpose of it?

How do I realise when the solution should be replaced?

Must the cathode absolutely be made of lead or can I also use gold for that, like a goldwire or such?

Any sugestions for the current used? I got dc power up to 60V 200A but small current is better, safer, right?

Thanks a lot for your help! 8)

greetings from the alps,
opt
 
Don't get my answer as a definitive one, I just like to take this opportunity to test my learnings.

Yes, I would go for electrolysis, 95% is the minimum required otherwise the acid will start attacking you copper anode.

No, you don't need to add H2O2 but I often heard about glycerin to help settle the fine gold powder. On the other end someone say it's not true.

You don't replace the acid but you decant, filter and reuse it (if you use a charming plug). Add a small amount to make up the original volume if needed.

Yes you must use lead, otherwise you will need to also change your anode and your electrolyte (Wohlwill cell).

12V, 6Amp maximum but there is a whole calculation to do based on the distance and the surface of anode and cathode facing each other (direct view). However, more amps, more heat.

As I'm almost ready to build mine, this would also help me to get it right.

P.S.: When done keep your cathode fully covered in distilled water, make sure your contacts does not create any sparks, search for charming filter plug as it will greatly help you filtering your acid so it can be reused (otherwise you have to dilute it prior filtering).

As everyone here would say, this had already been answer and more, please search the forums for much more details on gold refining.

Edit: spell check
 
first of all, thanks for your answers! this helps.
MarcoP said:
As everyone here would say, this had already been answer and more, please search the forums for much more details on gold refining.

its a commen problem of such forums that yes of course, all this questions have been answered several times, unfortunatelly you find here a bit of answer after reading 5 pages, there a bit, but no real how to do list. But I gonna search on :)
 
You have registered and within 20 minutes you had the time to search and submit your questions so it looks like your tiny search did produce a lot of info. 5 pages is a form of miss respect to whom shares 40 years experience and knowledge.

Even if its a one time work I'd suggest you to read C. M. Hoke book found here in forums as it will help you more then what you may believe, also read the safety section and waste treatments found here in forums.

New member answers: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=20219
GRF guided tour: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

This and much more will be needed before you run the cell. Your only enemy is the rush.

Cheers
 
Where to begin?

Opt, I'm afraid you've mixed up several processes in what you've written, and despite MarcoP's good intentions, he's compounded the confusion a bit.

If the glasses frames are indeed just gold plated, then a stripping (reverse plating) cell would be a good choice. If they are gold filled, the stripping cell probably won't work out as well.

There is no correct concentration of HCl for a stripping cell. It uses concentrated sulfuric acid, not hydrochloric acid. You also ask if you need to add hydrogen peroxide. Using hydrochloric acid along with hydrogen peroxide creates a copper(II) chloride leach solution (often referred to as AP) which is generally used to dissolve base metals prior to dissolving precious metals. This process has nothing to do with the stripping cell. Glycerine is not needed in either process. There was old information that suggested it was needed, but it has been found to serve no purpose.

The Wohlwill cell is a completely different electrolytic process. The stripping cell is used to recover gold from plated items. The Wohlwill cell is used to refine gold to a high degree of purity.

The filter MarcoP mentions is called a Charmin plug. It was originally created by one of our members (lazersteve) by packing a wad of Charmin brand toilet paper into the neck of a funnel, creating an alternative to filter paper. Other members have replaced the toilet paper with a wad of fiberglass insulation. The fiberglass is not affected by the acid.

I hope that clears up a bit of the confusion and gives you some direction to continue your studies. Here are some links I provide to new members to help them get started.

The first rule is to be safe in everything you do. Before you jump into any of the processes you see discussed here, be sure you understand the potential hazards and do everything you can to minimize the risks. Read EVERYTHING in the Safety section of the forum, especially the Dealing with Waste topic. No amount of precious metal is worth jeopardizing your health or the health of those around you.

I strongly encourage all new members to follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will provide an introduction to the forum and numerous valuable links including the General Reactions List. Be sure to follow the link to his web site as he has many outstanding videos, a collection of great reference documents, and he sells a lot of the supplies needed to get started including detailed instructional DVDs. Samuel-a also has a lot of videos, guides and tutorials at his web site Gold-N-Scrap.

Download C. M. Hoke's book. You'll find links to both screen readable and printer friendly versions in my signature line below. You'll see her book mentioned repeatedly here on the forum for good reason. It is probably the best book ever written for the beginner who wants to learn refining. It is written in layman's terms and will provide a solid foundation that will help you understand everything you read here on the forum. You'll also find a tremendous amount of information in the two Forum Handbooks compiled by aflacglobal, Forum Handbook Vol 1 and Forum Handbook Vol 2.

bmgold2 has also been putting together a useful set of links for beginners. You'll find a few links there that are duplicates of the ones I'm providing, but he has also taken the time to link to many other very good threads on specific topics of interest. His thread is here: New Member Answers.

Once you understand the basics you can start to try some small scale experiments. If there's something you don't understand or you get stuck, there will be someone here to help you.

Best of luck,
Dave
 
Ops! I didn't realise he wrote hydrochloric acid! So yeah you are more confused then what I thought.

Thank you FrugalRefiner!
 
Thank you MarcoP for helping a newbie, although you missed that tiny detail. 8)

I like your style, respectful, helpful and pointing them in the right direction, telling them to do more research.

The same goes for you too, Frugal. I'm amazed how helpful some people on the forum are.

Welcome to the forum, Opt, if you just keep to the rules and do your home work (searching and reading) you will get a lot of help here. But if you don't show that you made an honest effort of researching people will soon ignore your calls for help.

Göran
 
Thanks a lot Gentlemen, I gonna do my homework and search, read, learn.
Also thanks for all the great links!
Gota lot to learn..
Regards, opt
 
You can this materail all I a sulfuric cell.
You need to be extra safe, proper gear.
It will require higher amps and will produce higher heat.
So you must be ready for this.
Hotter meaning the acid heat up a lot faster, a produce more off gasing.
So you need power venting.
I wear all rubber lab gear suit and a face sheild ( goggles mist up to much and do not protect face).
At hotter temps. the acid will work much faster, so watch your reaction to stop from over str ip.
A larger volume cell will heat up slower.
I put a thermometer to the gas and rest it when hot and work 2nd or 3 rd cell letting the hot one cool.
You only need one power supply to work 3 cells, you just move your lead wires.
Hot acid is no joke will eat things instantly,
Un seen splashes will burn like bee stings instantly.

be super proactive on safty when doing this.
 
Reading above posts, it is assumed that all plated areas have electrical
connection to anode holders
 

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