Gold reclamation business. Higher yields than furnace.

[MRTGold]

Our business is searching for customers that need a trustworthy and honest vendor to meet their gold recovery needs. As stated, the process we use will yield a higher return vs the furnace smelter. The proof is in the sampling. In the furnace, impurities are part of the mass that is being sampled and ultimately determining the gold content.

Our sampling methods are from a liquid, leaving behind the impurities and more accurately determining the gold content of the materials processed. Our secondary process determines near total precious metal content of your material as well as copper content. Combined with stringent laboratory disciplines, customers will be happy with the returns we can provide.

Getting through to the right person who is willing to take a chance and let us prove that to them has been quite difficult, and seemingly not at all about refining itself. We are willing to give a free analysis to determine what your return will look like, pending further private conversation.

 

[4metals]

The proof is in the sampling

The proof is in the sampling, so if you expect to generate business because of your claims I suggest we discuss your sampling. Are you suggesting you abandon classical analytics and yield higher returns? How and why is your method superior.

Typically a scrap type is presented to a refiner for sampling. There are different methods of sampling for different scrap types. You give no indication of what type of scrap you are processing.

I am not trying to cast any dispersions about your claims, I am just trying to make it clear to anyone who may consider your offer that there may be more to your methodology than fits the "norm". So please let's have a discussion to clarify what you process and some technical information to quantify your claims.

 

[Martijn]

Our business is searching for customers that need a trustworthy and honest vendor to meet their gold recovery needs. As stated, the process we use will yield a higher return vs the furnace smelter. The proof is in the sampling. In the furnace, impurities are part of the mass that is being sampled and ultimately determining the gold content.

Our sampling methods are from a liquid, leaving behind the impurities and more accurately determining the gold content of the materials processed. Our secondary process determines near total precious metal content of your material as well as copper content. Combined with stringent laboratory disciplines, customers will be happy with the returns we can provide.

Getting through to the right person who is willing to take a chance and let us prove that to them has been quite difficult, and seemingly not at all about refining itself. We are willing to give a free analysis to determine what your return will look like, pending further private conversation.

Aren't the impurities part of the whole lot of materials to be processed? Do you determine how much impurities are taken out of the sample this way? To report in an assay?
Because if you remove trash before sampling you are basically making the batch more concentrated, resulting in higher yields per ton. Obviously. Like cherry picking or high grading a sample from a vein instead of a cross section sample of the whole vein.
Looks great for investers, but not reproducible on big loads of ore.

 

[MRTGold]

The proof is in the sampling, so if you expect to generate business because of your claims I suggest we discuss your sampling. Are you suggesting you abandon classical analytics and yield higher returns? How and why is your method superior.

Typically a scrap type is presented to a refiner for sampling. There are different methods of sampling for different scrap types. You give no indication of what type of scrap you are processing.

I am not trying to cast any dispersions about your claims, I am just trying to make it clear to anyone who may consider your offer that there may be more to your methodology than fits the "norm". So please let's have a discussion to clarify what you process and some technical information to quantify your claims.

The owner here is very guarded given his experiences in the metals industry. My intent here is to capture somebody's attention enough to generate a personal conversation in the attempt to earn their business. My hope is that this information will lead to phone calls with customers who have a need for reclamation at which time we would be able to discuss more specifically how we may be able to increase their gold recovery yield, and if what we are offering will benefit both parties. I joined this forum because I wanted to try something new from a marketing perspective and learn from others about the gold refining industry.

We do not abandon classical analytical methods, but the process and business model we use has a track record of outperforming specifically the fire burning furnace method for gold reclamation. The owner here has been in refining for 40 years and worked in the R&D department for Dupont plating studying surface morphologies and developing our process. Further details would be discussed with potential customers and it could be determined if we are the right fit for them.

We do well with stamping and assembly scrap as well as material from the electronic connector industry.

I am not here to sell snake oil. I am interested in gaining customers' attention and then the conversation could go from there

 

[4metals]

We do well with stamping and assembly scrap as well as material from the electronic connector industry.

These two scrap types specifically would not be well served in the furnace anyway. Electroplated scrap is typically stripped from the base metals and processed from the liquids you use to strip them from.

If a refiner wanted to melt a drum of electronic connectors for me I would be looking for the door as well.

I do wish you good luck however without more details as to why your method is better, which your bosses resume doesn't provide, I think you pose more questions than answers.

 

[MRTGold]

Aren't the impurities part of the whole lot of materials to be processed? Do you determine how much impurities are taken out of the sample this way? To report in an assay?
Because if you remove trash before sampling you are basically making the batch more concentrated, resulting in higher yields per ton. Obviously. Like cherry picking or high grading a sample from a vein instead of a cross section sample of the whole vein.
Looks great for investers, but not reproducible on big loads of ore.

It's important to note raw materials like ore are not the types of materials we work with. We strip plated materials.
When materials go into a furnace, yes, the impurities are part of the whole lot. Specifically I'll speak to plastic encapsulated types of gold-plated materials. The plastic is an impurity that unlike say trash, cannot be removed viably from the material before processing. Now when the molt is sampled for its gold content, part of the whole includes non-gold particulates which can dilute the sampling. Our method allows us to strip the gold off the material into a stripper tank, leaving the gold isolated for further processing. We then run a secondary analysis to determine the residual precious metal content, and our customers get paid thusly.

 

[MRTGold]

These two scrap types specifically would not be well served in the furnace anyway. Electroplated scrap is typically stripped from the base metals and processed from the liquids you use to strip them from.

If a refiner wanted to melt a drum of electronic connectors for me I would be looking for the door as well.

I do wish you good luck however without more details as to why your method is better, which your bosses resume doesn't provide, I think you pose more questions than answers.

I do not own the business and so I cannot spell everything out here on a public forum word for word. There are proprietary things he would not like me to speak to. I'm kind of just going out on a limb to begin with bringing this to an online forum, attempting to try another angle to gain customers.

I'm not attempting to make wild claims of gold returns, I am simply hoping to gain the attention of customers looking for a vendor to reclaim their gold. If there is any interest, an offline business conversation would be the best way forward to determine if a business relationship would make sense for the benefit of both parties.

 

[MRTGold]

It's important to note raw materials like ore are not the types of materials we work with. We strip plated materials.
When materials go into a furnace, yes, the impurities are part of the whole lot. Specifically I'll speak to plastic encapsulated types of gold-plated materials. The plastic is an impurity that unlike say trash, cannot be removed viably from the material before processing. Now when the molt is sampled for its gold content, part of the whole includes non-gold particulates which can dilute the sampling. Our method allows us to strip the gold off the material into a stripper tank, leaving the gold isolated for further processing. We then run a secondary analysis to determine the residual precious metal content, and our customers get paid thusly.

One of the best pieces of advice we give our customers is to segregate materials by type to obtain maximum value for what you have and are trying to get paid for. If there is trash in the lot, the customer would be best served to remove and segregate things by type. This sounds like common sense, but you would be surprised how often this goes overlooked.

We offer free sample analysis to determine what kind of return can be expected from our company.

 

[4metals]

There is a general resistance for a collector of precious metal scrap to ship out material that cannot be sampled while the customer witnesses his material. If I had a large quantity of material that I was shipping out for refining I would go to a house that could generate a representative sample and process a representative fraction to a point where I could take a sample to assay.

In the days when I was refining this was done often because every refinery has a specialty niche and needs reliable vendors to process what they cannot.

For example, a large lot of electrical connectors would be shredded so all of the PM's could be exposed for recovery and then the pieces are stream sampled to reduce the size of the sample. That small fraction can then be melted to produce a sample. In your case that sample could be processed in the selective strip you use and a liquid sample could be analyzed. All the customer needs to know is the weight of the sample stripped and the volume of the strip and rinses presented for analysis. This is what I assume you would do with smaller customer samples.

Am I at least on the right track here?

 

[Ultrax]

I joined this forum because I wanted to try something new from a marketing perspective

I do not own the business and so I cannot spell everything out here on a public forum word for word.

This looks like an ordinary and, sorry, boring advertising you are trying to place for free.
Especially without any significant technical details of your method, for example, a US patent number

There is a bad sign in science, when and if you cannot talk about any “method” publicly, it means most likely it is a compilation of something that already exists without any scientific novelty and an attempt to make money on tiny juridical “author’s changes” in other authors' ideas. No offense.

 

[MRTGold]

Understandably with the amount of value that is involved. We do test lots for companies to introduce them to us and our process and determine how much gold they have in the different types of gold laden materials they need processed. We are completely open to a customer's willingness to visit. They can observe the process and see how we handle their materials as well as get to know them. We are big on trust and transparency.

We have shredding capabilities, though mostly when we've received inquiries about a potential business relationship, we run small test lots of their materials needing processed to determine content or they have sent representative samples of things they want processed and we will run an analysis to determine content and the expected return given a larger amount of that material. Usually given in amount of gold per 1000#.

 

[4metals]

The owner here is very guarded given his experiences in the metals industry.

That way of thinking will not serve you well in trying to drum up new business. If you haven't noticed here, we pride ourselves in refiners helping refiners, not refiners keeping secrets.

If you were to detail your process and leave out any unique proprietary chemical stripping processes that would be acceptable, but you aren't giving any potential customers much to go on.

When you say you will do an analysis of samples for free

We are willing to give a free analysis to determine what your return will look like

That leaves too much wiggle room. You can give a good honest estimate and the potential customer will be happy and if the material that finally comes in is not well mixed or homogeneous the yield can be way off. Who is to blame? It cannot work that way.

Maybe your owner is a brilliant chemist, and he worked at Dupont for 40 years developing this. But while he was happily working under Dupont's protective environment, he did not learn the ins and outs of operating a refining operation so he can actually get in work to process with his secretive process. Long story short, customers want to be able to leave with a representative sample for analysis, be it from a melt or from a solution used to strip a representative sample.

 

[MRTGold]

This looks like an ordinary and, sorry, boring advertising you are trying to place for free.
Especially without any significant technical details of your method, for example, a US patent number

There is a bad sign in science, when and if you cannot talk about any “method” publicly, it means most likely it is a compilation of something that already exists without any scientific novelty and an attempt to make money on tiny juridical “author’s changes” in other authors' ideas. No offense.

This looked like the one thread I could post something like this. I joined intending to learn more about refining generally outside of the business as well as potential ways to talk to customers. Discovered this thread within the forum and decided to try. I am not trying to state some new science or method that will 10x your returns. I am trying to get better at finding ways of talking about our business to customers so that they will at least give us a chance to see what our returns look like compared to their current vendor.

I do not own the business. Our owner is very careful about what kind of information gets put into the public space due to lack of trust of individuals. There is nothing that would be hidden in the event any of this does attract a customer. We work best when we can talk to customers on the phone, bring them to our facility for visits, and show them our process and the returns it can yield.

I am trying to start conversations and build relationships. It has been challenging in a world that refuses to call back or respond to emails to explore potential opportunities.

 

[MRTGold]

That way of thinking will not serve you well in trying to drum up new business. If you haven't noticed here, we pride ourselves in refiners helping refiners, not refiners keeping secrets.

If you were to detail your process and leave out any unique proprietary chemical stripping processes that would be acceptable, but you aren't giving any potential customers much to go on.

When you say you will do an analysis of samples for free

That leaves too much wiggle room. You can give a good honest estimate and the potential customer will be happy and if the material that finally comes in is not well mixed or homogeneous the yield can be way off. Who is to blame? It cannot work that way.

Maybe your owner is a brilliant chemist, and he worked at Dupont for 40 years developing this. But while he was happily working under Dupont's protective environment, he did not learn the ins and outs of operating a refining operation so he can actually get in work to process with his secretive process. Long story short, customers want to be able to leave with a representative sample for analysis, be it from a melt or from a solution used to strip a representative sample.

I don't mean to be so secretive. I am just trying to straddle marketing while not giving the farm away.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable. We use a series of baths. A stripper followed by rinse baths. We sample the baths in a batch processing using atomic absorption to which we operate within strict standards. Do you know anything about how common solution type gold reclamation processes are and how much variance there actually is within them?

Can you help me to understand how to appropriately sample for customers? I don't see how we could do better than running test lots of their materials through our process to determine yield or the lab analysis we run that determines total content. This done over time with effective communication with the customer. It would not matter for us if the material that comes in is not homogeneous as all of it will go through our system. If we end up with more gold than they anticipated based on sampling, it would seem like an issue on their end in terms of knowing what they have. This is where would be able to show our trust/honesty factor. I am not being argumentative, I am trying to learn.

 

[4metals]

I am not being argumentative, I am trying to learn.

I do not think you are being argumentative and if I did I wouldn't be trying to get details from you that can make members a little more inclined to try your process.

If I had some fancy strip and recovery process there are a few things I would be doing to get work in. And it all centers around transparency and a customers ability to witness the process.

First off process baths are great for material that you own, meaning you have settled and the gold that comes out is yours. But a batch bath where you take a sample of the loaded liquor from client A and analyze it and next you strip the lot from client B and analyze it and do the math. This process continues all day until the strip liquor is saturated. The trouble is you need exact solution volumes to know how the PPM of the sample translates up to actual content. And those measurements have to be made after every clients material goes through. You can see from this it is easier to just process material you own and know the concentrations in a batch processing.

This cannot work for customer samples unless you have some very accurate method to measure the exact volume of the processing tank because it changes with temperature and dragout. And an accurate measurement requires analysis of the strip tank and all rinse tanks before and after the processing.

I would be granulating the material to a pre-determined size and passing the entire granulated load through a stream sampler. This would provide a small manageable sample which is representative of an entire lot.

The small sample would be stripped in a small dedicated strip tank only used for stripping samples. The stripped and rinsed material would then be inspected for strip efficiency and if it has completely stripped the solution and the rinses would be accurately weighed. Then a 100 ml sample would be taken in a tared volumetric flask and weighed and the calculation of volume is done based on weight. Now you know the start weight and the scrap, and the accurate volume of the solution, a sample given to the client for his own Atomic Absorption analysis will tell the customer the quantity of gold in the sample processed. That times the total weight processed will give yield data.
It really doesn't matter to the client what secret sauce you use to strip the gold and it doesn't matter how you recover the gold from the strip, what matters is you demonstratively proving the gold content of your sampling. And usually this is done at least 2 and preferably 3 times. That gives confidence in the stream sampling.

There is a tremendous amount of information you can learn here all freely given by members who are not like your boss.

 

[GoIdman]

We are completely open to a customer's willingness to visit. They can observe the process and see how we handle their materials as well as get to know them. We are big on trust and transparency.

Hi, I`ve read your posts but there is nothing transparent and trustworthy in what you write.

I do not own the business. Our owner is very careful about what kind of information gets put into the public space due to lack of trust of individuals. There is nothing that would be hidden in the event any of this does attract a customer. We work best when we can talk to customers on the phone, bring them to our facility for visits, and show them our process and the returns it can yield.

Let me understand this...You want to build the businees on trust and transparency but you do not want to divulge anything about your practices?

The owner here is very guarded given his experiences in the metals industry. ...

The owner here has been in refining for 40 years and worked in the R&D department for Dupont plating studying surface morphologies and developing our process. Further details would be discussed with potential customers and it could be determined if we are the right fit for them.

You have to understand this.....On this forum you will find almost every type of existing proven process with yields and experience thrown in together for free. Your guarded owner may have 40 years of knowledge from the plating industry , but this forum hase literally more years experience in every known processes out there with statistical and precise recipes for executing and reproducing them. Beside this, here are the members who can help out everyone in need.

We do not have secrets between us. Why would you have?

If your owner did not discover how to make gold from lead, i cannot see how a miracle process can surface, allthough every year there are claims of green and low waste processes and chemicals discovered, which ultimately turn out to be the exact same processes and chemicals that are proven for 100`s of years.

No offence mate, but your approach is very shady.

Pete

 

[Martijn]

I can sample a refined gold solution after all processes and conclude that I can refine with a yield of up to 1 kilo of pure gold per kilo of "material"

i don't processes the impurities for free though...

 

[kurtak]

The owner here is very guarded given his experiences in the metals industry.

We are big on trust and transparency.

Hmmm - maybe it's just me (&/or I am missing something) but it can't be both ?

You (or your boss) are ether transparent - OR - guarded

So which is it ?

We strip plated materials.

Sounds like your boss is running a cyanide stripping operation which is kind of an industry standard for gold plated materials

In other words - yes - strip/leaching is a better choice (for gold plated) then going to a furnace (melting to copper dore then run in copper cell) - but as I said - that is already the industry standard for gold plated

So - what makes your bosses strip/leaching process "better" then what is already an industry standard ???

Kurt

 

[Ultrax]

Sounds like your boss is running a cyanide stripping operation which is kind of an industry standard for gold plated materials

In other words - yes - strip/leaching is a better choice (for gold plated) then going to a furnace (melting to copper dore then run in copper cell) - but as I said - that is already the industry standard for gold plated

So - what makes your bosses strip/leaching process "better" then what is already an industry standard ???

Kurt

Or maybe they use eco-friendly thiourea-sulfuric-formamidine disulfide leaching as an alternative to the cyanide process, and promote it as their own "know-how", invented, by the way, in the USSR in the 1940s-1960s.

 

[nickvc]

I fear unless you can be more specific about your process you are wasting your time and effort here , you are dealing with some of the worlds finest refiners who have seen and done it all or know of methods that has not fitted into their needs.
If you wish to make contact with potential customers then you will have to be more open to gain our support through an open discussion about what exactly you have or do to obtain better returns and allow us to peer review it.