Gold reclamation business. Higher yields than furnace.

[kurtak]

I do not own the business and so I cannot spell everything out here on a public forum word for word.

an offline business conversation would be the best way forward to determine if a business relationship would make sense

So if I understand what you are saying here is that - If I call & talk to you personally & ask all the questions being asked here on the open forum - then - you will answer all those (same) questions with transparency ?

Kurt

 

[4metals]

Does your refinery, even though you didn't say the name of the business yet, have a website you could send us to?

I am trying hard to help you to accomplish what you came here to do, but while you say transparency, you seem to only provide opacity.

 

[anachronism]

I may have missed this in the ensuing thread, however do you pay based on that sample or pay on the post recovery result?

 

[user 73626]

I do not think you are being argumentative and if I did I wouldn't be trying to get details from you that can make members a little more inclined to try your process.

If I had some fancy strip and recovery process there are a few things I would be doing to get work in. And it all centers around transparency and a customers ability to witness the process.

First off process baths are great for material that you own, meaning you have settled and the gold that comes out is yours. But a batch bath where you take a sample of the loaded liquor from client A and analyze it and next you strip the lot from client B and analyze it and do the math. This process continues all day until the strip liquor is saturated. The trouble is you need exact solution volumes to know how the PPM of the sample translates up to actual content. And those measurements have to be made after every clients material goes through. You can see from this it is easier to just process material you own and know the concentrations in a batch processing.

This cannot work for customer samples unless you have some very accurate method to measure the exact volume of the processing tank because it changes with temperature and dragout. And an accurate measurement requires analysis of the strip tank and all rinse tanks before and after the processing.

I would be granulating the material to a pre-determined size and passing the entire granulated load through a stream sampler. This would provide a small manageable sample which is representative of an entire lot.

The small sample would be stripped in a small dedicated strip tank only used for stripping samples. The stripped and rinsed material would then be inspected for strip efficiency and if it has completely stripped the solution and the rinses would be accurately weighed. Then a 100 ml sample would be taken in a tared volumetric flask and weighed and the calculation of volume is done based on weight. Now you know the start weight and the scrap, and the accurate volume of the solution, a sample given to the client for his own Atomic Absorption analysis will tell the customer the quantity of gold in the sample processed. That times the total weight processed will give yield data.
It really doesn't matter to the client what secret sauce you use to strip the gold and it doesn't matter how you recover the gold from the strip, what matters is you demonstratively proving the gold content of your sampling. And usually this is done at least 2 and preferably 3 times. That gives confidence in the stream sampling.

There is a tremendous amount of information you can learn here all freely given by members who are not like your boss.

Thank you. We have no problems with transparency when it comes to customer who's materials we are processing. I'm gaining an understanding of what this forum is about, however. A customer visit to our site is more than welcome to observe our process. I've had companies send an auditor and watch us process their material. Our hope is to build relationships that enable us to gain the trust of a customer so that they need not waste money on an auditor.

We in fact do all those things you speak of. Our tanks are volume and temperature controlled as well as continuously circulating and we capture and account for the dragout. We analyze concentrations before and after to know what each customer has in concentration. We have redundancies in our methods to ensure we know what we have and we are accurate within a certain delta.

Typically customers have sent us representative samples of the materials they want processed of which we determine content. We have been thinking about investing in a dedicated shredding/sampling system.

That last part is interesting. A conversation I will have for sure. Frankly, I've not really gotten very far with customers from a marketing perspective to offer sampling to prove our worth. My biggest problem has been simply talking to someone. Getting them on the phone or to respond to emails and explore potential opportunities.

 

[user 73626]

Hi, I`ve read your posts but there is nothing transparent and trustworthy in what you write.

Let me understand this...You want to build the businees on trust and transparency but you do not want to divulge anything about your practices?



You have to understand this.....On this forum you will find almost every type of existing proven process with yields and experience thrown in together for free. Your guarded owner may have 40 years of knowledge from the plating industry , but this forum hase literally more years experience in every known processes out there with statistical and precise recipes for executing and reproducing them. Beside this, here are the members who can help out everyone in need.

We do not have secrets between us. Why would you have?

If your owner did not discover how to make gold from lead, i cannot see how a miracle process can surface, allthough every year there are claims of green and low waste processes and chemicals discovered, which ultimately turn out to be the exact same processes and chemicals that are proven for 100`s of years.

No offence mate, but your approach is very shady.

Pete

Well, I will say I've learned quite a lot about what this community is about. I am trying to straddle telling enough to the general public to garner interest, while at the same time staying within the guidelines based on the preferences of the owner of the company in terms of what to just put out there. That's troublesome, I understand that now. My intent was to garner interest and have an open, informative conversation with the potential customer. My initial hope was to see if people had any interest to then take it further with them personally and see if there was a fit between what they need and what we offer.

 

[user 73626]

I fear unless you can be more specific about your process you are wasting your time and effort here , you are dealing with some of the worlds finest refiners who have seen and done it all or know of methods that has not fitted into their needs.
If you wish to make contact with potential customers then you will have to be more open to gain our support through an open discussion about what exactly you have or do to obtain better returns and allow us to peer review it.

You're right. I am attempting to straddle something that will not work here. Quite frankly I've learned a lot already. I'm trying to be careful about what I say and its coming off as shady/secretive. That is very much not the intent and I need to retool this. Idea of representation.

 

[user 73626]

Hmmm - maybe it's just me (&/or I am missing something) but it can't be both ?

You (or your boss) are ether transparent - OR - guarded

So which is it ?


Sounds like your boss is running a cyanide stripping operation which is kind of an industry standard for gold plated materials

In other words - yes - strip/leaching is a better choice (for gold plated) then going to a furnace (melting to copper dore then run in copper cell) - but as I said - that is already the industry standard for gold plated

So - what makes your bosses strip/leaching process "better" then what is already an industry standard ???

Kurt

Gaurded in the sense of being wary of people in today's world, but as transparent as it gets when it comes to dicussing business matters with actual customers. I am learning a lot from this forum already in how to go about talking about our business. It seems I need to retool this things and try again. Frankly we are not doing anything above and beyond what already exists. I see the claims out there of some new perfect process that never seems to come to market. I am not trying to claim that.

Can I ask you for advice then on how to interest customers enough to give us a try? How to gain the interest to explore our process and see if the fit garners switching from current vendors?

 

[user 73626]

I may have missed this in the ensuing thread, however do you pay based on that sample or pay on the post recovery result?

Based on the recovery result. Between our process and the residuals.

 

[4metals]

We have no problems with transparency when it comes to customer who's materials we are processing.

We have a lot of active members and also have many who just read but rarely contribute and a massive non member viewership around the globe. But bottom line is here at the forum exists a tremendous possibility for your company to sell your services. If you cannot anyone to talk to you there is a reason.

You could provide a photo tour of your stripping system and sampling system and possibly your analytical lab, all without disclosing the make-up of your secret sauce you use in your process. Most of what you show will help potential customers realize you are legitimate.

It is interesting that without any photos with minimal input from you, we have figured out your process to the point where with a little transparency from you, you could validate your legitimacy. Nothing you are currently doing is really rocket science with the possible exception of the Dupont secret sauce. But as I said, once sampled to satisfy the customer that does not matter.

Here at GRF every member has intimate interest in precious metal recovery. And there is potential business here if you can figure it out. In marketing you concentrate your efforts where potential clients can see it. You don't advertise fishing gear in a baking magazine. Here at GRF you have interested folks, more than you realize, but it's up to you to show enough to legitimize your company. And a website would also be helpful.

 

[Ultrax]

Nothing you are currently doing is really rocket science with the possible exception of the Dupont secret sauce.

The topic starter wrote more than 500 (!) words in the last three posts, which do not contain any useful information other than the desire to do cold sales & marketing for free.

I can guarantee that his method, even theoretically, cannot contain any scientific novelty regarding the chemistry of precious metals. Moreover, there can be no novelty regarding the analytical part of general chemistry.

As the author of the book "Blue Ocean Strategy" would say, the topic starter STILL has not clearly described the strategic advantages of his product for successful sales here

 

[Yggdrasil]

The topic starter wrote more than 500 (!) words in the last three posts, which do not contain any useful information other than the desire to do cold sales & marketing for free.

I can guarantee that his method, even theoretically, cannot contain any scientific novelty regarding the chemistry of precious metals. Moreover, there can be no novelty regarding the analytical part of general chemistry.

As the author of the book "Blue Ocean Strategy" would say, the topic starter STILL has not clearly described the strategic advantages of his product for successful sales here

That is how sales persons do their work , is it not?
A lot of talk to over run the potential buyer.

 

[user 73626]

Does your refinery, even though you didn't say the name of the business yet, have a website you could send us to?

I am trying hard to help you to accomplish what you came here to do, but while you say transparency, you seem to only provide opacity.

Our website is MRTGold.com

 

[user 73626]

We have a lot of active members and also have many who just read but rarely contribute and a massive non member viewership around the globe. But bottom line is here at the forum exists a tremendous possibility for your company to sell your services. If you cannot anyone to talk to you there is a reason.

You could provide a photo tour of your stripping system and sampling system and possibly your analytical lab, all without disclosing the make-up of your secret sauce you use in your process. Most of what you show will help potential customers realize you are legitimate.

It is interesting that without any photos with minimal input from you, we have figured out your process to the point where with a little transparency from you, you could validate your legitimacy. Nothing you are currently doing is really rocket science with the possible exception of the Dupont secret sauce. But as I said, once sampled to satisfy the customer that does not matter.

Here at GRF every member has intimate interest in precious metal recovery. And there is potential business here if you can figure it out. In marketing you concentrate your efforts where potential clients can see it. You don't advertise fishing gear in a baking magazine. Here at GRF you have interested folks, more than you realize, but it's up to you to show enough to legitimize your company. And a website would also be helpful.

I responded our website to one of our other conversations. Is there a better place to do that? I will work on it. Going to get with the owner come Monday or Tuesday and go from there.

 

[4metals]

Our website is MRTGold.com

Sorry I had to pry that out of you. South central Pennsylvanians I see. I'm from NE Pennsylvania.

Before I got into refining I ran a large electroplating shop for a mil-spec connector manufacturer located on Long Island NY. Before I started refining in house we got screwed by many different refiners. It is a material that is difficult to quantify and without representation as we discussed above, I would never ship it out to a refiner knowing what my age and experience has taught me.

 

[4metals]

Looking at your photos on the website I am assuming you are electroplating the gold out of solution onto a copper mesh cathode and digesting that in aqua regia to refine the gold. I assume this from the cart load of blue liquid in the volumetric flasks which is what the loaded aqua regia from that feedstock should look like after dilution for the Atomic Absorption analysis.

From what you have shown you have typical granulation and a barrel overhead hoist system to strip the parts. All very neat and organized but nothing earth shattering. No reason yet for the secrecy.

And no evidence that your strip and recovery wouldn't be any different from off the shelf chemistry from Technic or Enthone.

So as to your claim of a better return than melting the material, I'd say likely. But any refiner i know would be stripping this material as well.

 

[offtrailhiker]

Does your refinery, even though you didn't say the name of the business yet, have a website you could send us to?

I am trying hard to help you to accomplish what you came here to do, but while you say transparency, you seem to only provide opacity.

for what it's worth, I poked around a bit. I didn't find any NAPCO in Pennsylvania that refines gold. Talk about secretive!
Maybe going forward OP can use the monicker MRTGold instead of NAPCo?

Edited after seeing website address

This is my second edit: I figured what the hell, I'll check out the website. My antivirus software stopped me from proceeding. So there's that.

 

[Yggdrasil]

for what it's worth, I poked around a bit. I didn't find any NAPCO in Pennsylvania that refines gold. Talk about secretive!

That is the user name, not the refinery name.
Try MRTGold

 

[goldshark]

I responded our website to one of our other conversations. Is there a better place to do that? I will work on it. Going to get with the owner come Monday or Tuesday and go from there.

Are you strictly doing toll refining, or do you purchase lots? So far, all I have heard is "We do refining". Perhaps a little more info about how you do business would be much more helpful. What material you will process, lot sizes, volumes, etc. Merely stating you have a new ,secret way to improve yields doesn't really matter. One business model is that you are everybody's best friend, as long as you are the cheapest, with the best return to the customer monetarily. Money is the bottom line.

 

[Shark]

What material you will process, lot sizes, volumes, etc.

Those are the two questions I would look into first. I think it is also the main questions many small collectors, such as myself, would be most curious about up front. I am in a situation now where I could take over a 25 plus year electronics recycling business by just saying yes, and taking it over. Enough to go from a small time tinkerer to a full blown business I could potentially pass on in the future as well. The real question is “do I want to get that involved this late in life”.

 

[goldshark]

Those are the two questions I would look into first. I think it is also the main questions many small collectors, such as myself, would be most curious about up front. I am in a situation now where I could take over a 25 plus year electronics recycling business by just saying yes, and taking it over. Enough to go from a small time tinkerer to a full blown business I could potentially pass on in the future as well. The real question is “do I want to get that involved this late in life”.

Yes, time is precious, more so than Gold. It is all about the decisions one makes in life.
If Napco wants business, there is certainly a lot of waste material to process, mountains of it. Careful what you wish for.