Gold sand

[Minner20]

I missed all the replies in this page since I simply didn't see it!

I've done another two tests today,

First, I put a golden earing ( weights 2g ) with 30ml HCl and 10ml nitric, then I tested the solution with SnCl2 on a plastic spoon and got the result as in pic 1

Then I did another experiment, I put 30g of my sand with premixed AR ( 30ml nitric + 120ml HCl )
, got the result as in pic 2

I repeated the test from the second experiment several times, some times the color disappears almost directly, other times I got transparent color only, other times no change happened on the solution.

Aj

 

[Minner20]

If you precipitate, the metal salts converts to elemental metal and will not react any more to stannous.
Have you dissolved ALL base metals and gold?
If not, what ever gold that may have been in there, have probabaly cemented out again, and as a result the stannous will be negative.
Stannous will only react to metal salts not the metals them self.

As a digression I will emphasize that it would be wise for you to stop this, for the time beeing, until you actually understand what you are dooing. Read and reread Hoke until you understand what she is saying and dooing.
Find som small amount of know gold and follow her advice.
This way, you and others around you, will not be harmed.

Thank you again for your reply,
I haven't dissolved the base metals yet, I thought just to make sure I have some gold in my sand before wasting some more chemicals :|

I'm still reading and learning from Hoke, she's amazing in everything.
Regards

Aj

 

[Minner20]

If I have gold in sands I would have no need for a stannous chloride test, using gravity and panning will separate the gold. anyone familiar with panning for gold will recognize gold in his pan.

iIn fact, if you have gold in sands leaching would be a terrible choice of recovery method. gravity is your friend with placer gold. No need to leach or use chemicals for recovery. No need for special acid tests or machine tests to be able to identify the gold, because the density is so much different than any of the other materials, panning alone will tell you if it is gold or not and give you a method to recover that gold...

I am somewhat surprised by the stannous chloride test you have, if you leached most any sands from around here you will probably get some indication of gold, even if the sand was not worth the time of panning.

Read hokes page 100 she shows you how to test for iron in solution (what I suspect you have) Iron can look similar to gold in solution, just as pyrite can look like gold to those who are new to mining gold.

Stannous chloride test is so very sensitive for gold, even if the sands did contain pyrite which could possibly have traces of gold in the matrix, the stannous chloride test would show up positive even if the ore was worthless to try and recover any of the gold from it.

While your reading Hokes, I would also study the getting acquainted experiments and get yourself acquainted with gold, and testing... Doing the tests she suggests to gain an understanding.


You can file some gold filings off some of your old jewelry, weigh it, throw it in the pan full of sand, take an old lead fishing weight, again get some filings and weigh them, throw them in the pan full of sand, gravel, and rocks.

in a larger tub of water practice your panning, separating the rocks sand, and gravel from the lead, separate the lead from the gold weigh the fillings, practice till it becomes natural and easy to separate the gold filings from all of the lighter materials.

Great advice! Thank you so much. I will check the page 100 and
I will try your way in panning the lead. :wink:

Actually, the density of the sand ( or whatever is there ) during panning is what was remarkable, the last sand fist was very heavy in water and almost didn't move out of the pan until I poured alot of water.

Aj

 

[Minner20]

I'm surprised that no one commented on putting aqua regia in a stainless spoon and thinking it should be possible to detect any gold at all.

Stannous tests are mostly done in plastic spoons, porcelain spot plates, on a filter paper or a cotton swab. But never on a stainless steel spoon!

Read Hoke, it has procedures on denoxing, on how to make stannous solution and testing among other things.

Göran

Thank you Göran, I got that notice already and did the test again on a plastic spoon :wink:

Aj

 

[Minner20]

Hi guys
Forgive my ignorant question but I'm still learning from the forum and from Hoke's book.

I have a metal detector and by using it I got a good amount of soil that contains precious metals ( strongly believe it's gold only )
I used the panning method to wash off all the dirt and got gold with sand ( as in the attached picture )

I'm confused now what to do next!?
Thanks
Aj

Aj,

You have received excellent advice from some of the most knowledgeable members of this board.

That being said, I have some basic questions:

1.) How much paydirt did you have to pan through to get this result?
2.) Your paydirt appears to be exceptionally clean of any black sands (magnetite, hematite, and any other ironstone). Did you find any black sands in your soils or did you pan them all out of this sample?
3.) Do you have a lot of this soil to process?

Your pictured sample of the pan appears almost too good to be true. I am not implying that you are untruthful. I am saying in my 40+ years of gold prospecting and mining within California US and Arizona US, I have never been that lucky to find so much of what appears to be fine gold within my dredges, sluices, or pans.

If you are, indeed, finding gold of this volume with your metal detector and pan only, my advice to you is to invest in some gravity concentrators designed for the small or recreational miner that will reduce your materials much more efficiently than a gold pan.

Depending upon how clean you get your final output, you may, eventually, get the results you want through chemical leaching. I never did, because my final cons (concentrates) always contained a lot of black sands making chemical leaching next to impossible for me. I now smelt and use cupellation on my final black sand cons.

I hope you acquire many kronor from your efforts!

Peace and health,
James

James,
With my metal detector I got almost 0.5 kg of soil which should contain precious metal.

I used the sieve to clean all the dirt and worthless rocks, the I used the pan to get rid of the sand and light dirt.
I put what left on heat to dry off the water, waited until it became cold sand again and started to use the magnetic bar to collect all the iron.
Then I used the pan again to make sure that all dirt is cleared ( the picture you commented too good to be true was at this stage )

This is my first attempt to get some gold so wish me the best.

Aj

 

[Minner20]

Hi again,

This question is Just for curiosity and learning purpose !

I took a fist from the same sand, covered it with HCl and started adding nitric incrementally until the solution got calm ( no action )
I filtered the solution and added some Sulfuric acid and good amount of SMB until all the nitric was killed ( no action again )

Can somebody please explain why I got a yellow powder ?

Thanks

 

[modtheworld44]

answer

Lead sulphate

modtheworld44

 

[Martijn]

That makes me think your gold sand is actually a form of lead oxide called massicot:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massicot
It's density is almost as heavy as silver, 9.64g/cm3
Martijn.

 

[Martijn]

Locations for lead oxide mines in Sweden:

 

[Minner20]

I have zero knowledge about the lead.

Can you please explain more to me about it?

Aj

 

[Martijn]

You found sand with a heavy yellow colored powdery substance in it. Since you could pan it to a concentrate. Indicating a high density. Much higher than sand and rock.
No wonder you got exited. I would be.

But later on you dissolved a bit of it in AR, and added H2SO4 to push any lead out as lead oxide.
You did push a lot out.. meaning your yellow sand is probably some form of litharge, also known as lead oxide.
Used in smelting.

If you would cupel it (or fire assay) in a bone ash cupel or some portland cement, it would probably disappear completely.
One form is the one i found a picture of. Look at the wikipedia link and you'll see. Also the density.
But with that little soil you panned, how heavy was the concentrate? I think you may come to mythical ore grades if it were gold.
And you live in sweden, hence the PbO mining sites i looked up. You live near one of them maybe?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

But later on you dissolved a bit of it in AR, and added H2SO4 to push any lead out as lead oxide.
You did push a lot out.. meaning your yellow sand is probably some form of litharge, also known as lead oxide.
Used in smelting.

If you would cupel it (or fire assay) in a bone ash cupel or some portland cement, it would probably disappear completely.
One form is the one i found a picture of. Look at the wikipedia link and you'll see. Also the density.
But with that little soil you panned, how heavy was the concentrate? I think you may come to mythical ore grades if it were gold.
And you live in sweden, hence the PbO mining sites i looked up. You live near one of them maybe?

I believe by adding sulfuric acid (H₂SO₄) to lead dissolved in AR, you will form lead sulfate (PbSO₄), not lead oxide. I could be wrong.

I don't know what happens if you try to cupel lead sulfate. Be careful heating any lead compounds as the fumes are quite toxic.

Dave

 

[Martijn]

But later on you dissolved a bit of it in AR, and added H2SO4 to push any lead out as lead oxide.
You did push a lot out.. meaning your yellow sand is probably some form of litharge, also known as lead oxide.
Used in smelting.

If you would cupel it (or fire assay) in a bone ash cupel or some portland cement, it would probably disappear completely.
One form is the one i found a picture of. Look at the wikipedia link and you'll see. Also the density.
But with that little soil you panned, how heavy was the concentrate? I think you may come to mythical ore grades if it were gold.
And you live in sweden, hence the PbO mining sites i looked up. You live near one of them maybe?

I believe by adding sulfuric acid (H₂SO₄) to lead dissolved in AR, you will form lead sulfate (PbSO₄), not lead oxide. I could be wrong.

I don't know what happens if you try to cupel lead sulfate. Be careful heating any lead compounds as the fumes are quite toxic.

Dave

Good to point out! Safety first!

I meant the panned concentrate from the sand of course. Not the precipitated lead sulfate from the digestion in AR.
And it's just a suggestion to consider for Aj a a possible determination of what he might have.
There are a lot of heavy yellow minerals around i guess.
This just sounded very logical to me.

And to Aj:
The precipitated lead sulfate needs to be filtered before adding SMB.

Smelting is a whole science on it's own and needs study to perform safe. I was speaking hypothetically. Don't try this at home :wink:

 

[Minner20]

You found sand with a heavy yellow colored powdery substance in it. Since you could pan it to a concentrate. Indicating a high density. Much higher than sand and rock.
No wonder you got exited. I would be.

But later on you dissolved a bit of it in AR, and added H2SO4 to push any lead out as lead oxide.
You did push a lot out.. meaning your yellow sand is probably some form of litharge, also known as lead oxide.
Used in smelting.

If you would cupel it (or fire assay) in a bone ash cupel or some portland cement, it would probably disappear completely.
One form is the one i found a picture of. Look at the wikipedia link and you'll see. Also the density.
But with that little soil you panned, how heavy was the concentrate? I think you may come to mythical ore grades if it were gold.
And you live in sweden, hence the PbO mining sites i looked up. You live near one of them maybe?

Martijn,
During the precipitation, I only added few drops of Sulfuric acid (like 7ml or so) and added alot of SMB ( kept adding it till it stopped reaction )
You asked about how heavy was the concentrate, well it was heavy to the point I had to pour a good amount of water in order to move the sand out of the pan.
Aj

 

[Minner20]

But later on you dissolved a bit of it in AR, and added H2SO4 to push any lead out as lead oxide.
You did push a lot out.. meaning your yellow sand is probably some form of litharge, also known as lead oxide.
Used in smelting.

If you would cupel it (or fire assay) in a bone ash cupel or some portland cement, it would probably disappear completely.
One form is the one i found a picture of. Look at the wikipedia link and you'll see. Also the density.
But with that little soil you panned, how heavy was the concentrate? I think you may come to mythical ore grades if it were gold.
And you live in sweden, hence the PbO mining sites i looked up. You live near one of them maybe?

I believe by adding sulfuric acid (H₂SO₄) to lead dissolved in AR, you will form lead sulfate (PbSO₄), not lead oxide. I could be wrong.

I don't know what happens if you try to cupel lead sulfate. Be careful heating any lead compounds as the fumes are quite toxic.

Dave

Thank you Dave, yes safety first :wink:

 

[Minner20]

Hi again,
I followed all the steps in Hoke's chapter V and succeeded to get the brown powder after precipitation with copperas.
It was a tiny amount of powder but that's fine as a beginning.

Hoke recommended, before melting the powder, to wash the powder with Hydrochloric and water in order to get free of copperas. But when I added the HCl and water the powder is gone and disappeared

I tried to boil again but it seems useless !
What do you guys recommend ?

Aj

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Test with stannous chloride.

Dave

 

[g_axelsson]

It sounds like you got iron hydroxide precipitating from the copperas. It will dissolve in hydrochloric acid. A stannous test will reveal if you dissolved any gold.

Also you should test the waste solution after you tried to drop any gold. Stannous will show if there are any gold left in solution or if all have precipitated already.

Göran

 

[g_axelsson]

But later on you dissolved a bit of it in AR, and added H2SO4 to push any lead out as lead oxide.
You did push a lot out.. meaning your yellow sand is probably some form of litharge, also known as lead oxide.
Used in smelting.

If you would cupel it (or fire assay) in a bone ash cupel or some portland cement, it would probably disappear completely.
One form is the one i found a picture of. Look at the wikipedia link and you'll see. Also the density.
But with that little soil you panned, how heavy was the concentrate? I think you may come to mythical ore grades if it were gold.
And you live in sweden, hence the PbO mining sites i looked up. You live near one of them maybe?

I believe by adding sulfuric acid (H₂SO₄) to lead dissolved in AR, you will form lead sulfate (PbSO₄), not lead oxide. I could be wrong.

I don't know what happens if you try to cupel lead sulfate. Be careful heating any lead compounds as the fumes are quite toxic.

Dave

Dave, you are correct. It will form lead sulfate, not lead oxide.

Lead sulfate decomposes into SO₃ gas and lead oxide when heated above 1000 °C. The lead oxide can then be turned into metal and carbon dioxide if smelted with a carbon source, like flour or carbon.

Another insoluble sulfate compound that we seldom see in refining but I would expect when treating ore with aqua regia is gypsum, CaSO₄.
Calcium is commonly found in calcite , and calcite is easily dissolved by HCl, nitric acid or aqua regia. Adding sulfuric acid it will precipitate as a voluminous white powder and is basically insoluble in most liquids.
You can also find calcium in feldspar and many other rock forming minerals so it can be leached out of it in aqua regia.

Göran

 

[g_axelsson]

Locations for lead oxide mines in Sweden: Screenshot_20210201-195350_Chrome.jpg

That is actually lead sulfide mines.

I've visited them all. Lead oxide, litharge, is only found as trace amounts in a couple of mines and never in ore quantities. There are a lot of other lead mines (active and closed down) in Sweden. But I wouldn't expect any amount adding up to a large fraction of the heavy concentrate when panning. I would expect that Minner 20 have found pyrite, judging from my knowledge of Swedish geology and the description of the reactions with acid.
A pocket of heavily mineralized pyrite rich ground could easily give a decent response on a metal detector. I've seen it several times in sulfide veins in rocks with my metal detector.

Göran