Gold tipped ribbon cables and gold on mylars

[dpgold]

Hey,
I did like 400g of these with Hcl/Peroxide and dissolved the foils i bleach afterwards. I didnt saw any diffrence to the RAM finger process.
It worked just fine for me. Same process as RAM fingers. Yiels was pretty low from those.
David

Hi, can you tell me what did you do after you dissolved the foils, did you filter and then use bleach, how did you precipitate?

 

[Martijn]

PolyVinylChloride? The solution is darker however on the lid there is green solution, maybe I should add some HCL and do a stannous test first before anything else? I am looking for the SS nut. Yes it is a lot of info to digest at once but I am determined.

That was a reply to warchilds hose dissolving in AP.
The reactivity series solved your problem. No need for stannous testing on a solution saturated with copper. You will hardly see any purple in the brown from the copper.

 

[dpgold]

That was a reply to warchilds hose dissolving in AP.
The reactivity series solved your problem. No need for stannous testing on a solution saturated with copper. You will hardly see any purple in the brown from the copper.

So a more reactive element will cement out an element which is below in the reactivity series, thus copper remains in the solution and gold has precipitated. Now I should filter, wash (with tap water?) and then refine in AR?

 

[Martijn]

I think you should filter and stock up those foils until you have studied enough and have a plan for us to review.

Or keep them in a bottle to shake and watch until you're ready to refine them. Or just keep dissolving more plated items until the bottom is full of foils and powder.

First, know how to deal with the waste you will create.

Then, know how to safely perform the processes needed to dissolve, chill, dilute, filter, precipitate, wash and melt your gold.

Where will you perform chemistry without endangering your surrounding family friends pets etc.

Where and how to store supplies, byproducts and waste.

So much to learn before putting you health at risk for that little bit of gold.

Take your time. A couple of months.

Ask if you can't find the answer or if you don't understand it. It all here for you to discover.

Have fun. Be safe.

Martijn.

 

[Shark]

Martin is right, now is a good point to step back and study a bit more. It is a good place to store what you have and get a better understanding of what you wish to achieve. A detailed list of your plan before proceeding can give us a better understanding of how much you know, giving us a better idea of how to help you. We could simply write it out for you, but it wouldn’t help you if something goes wrong.

 

[dpgold]

I think you should filter and stock up those foils until you have studied enough and have a plan for us to review.

Or keep them in a bottle to shake and watch until you're ready to refine them. Or just keep dissolving more plated items until the bottom is full of foils and powder.

First, know how to deal with the waste you will create.

Then, know how to safely perform the processes needed to dissolve, chill, dilute, filter, precipitate, wash and melt your gold.

Where will you perform chemistry without endangering your surrounding family friends pets etc.

Where and how to store supplies, byproducts and waste.

So much to learn before putting you health at risk for that little bit of gold.

Take your time. A couple of months.

Ask if you can't find the answer or if you don't understand it. It all here for you to discover.

Have fun. Be safe.

Martijn.

I filtered the solution today, first a rough filtering of the plastic support then I put the partially washed stuff in another bucket, I tried to wash down all the gold remains with water but it clings to the plastic walls. What should I wash it with?

 

[Martijn]

I know! Its like working with leaf gold!!
The stuff sticks to everything. The nose of your breathing mask e.g as I remember a certain wild cowboy from last year...

Spray (pressurized pump) bottle with tapwater works fine for me.
I have the plated items in a perforated bucket to lift and rinse all the foils down while in the AP. Only need to shake every now and then to flush it all down to the bottom.
Then spray rinse off the pcb and plastic parts above another bucket, not diluting your AP.
Let it all settle for some time and decant the most of the AP back into the bucket to dissolve some more plated items. Filter the last bit and if there is white CuCl1 clogging the filter, rinse with a bit HCl. This will take some time.

 

[Shark]

Yep, filtering is the biggest time constraint when refining. I like Martins use of perforated bucket as well. It works really well with 5 gallon buckets.

 

[dpgold]

I know! Its like working with leaf gold!!
The stuff sticks to everything. The nose of your breathing mask e.g as I remember a certain wild cowboy from last year...

Spray (pressurized pump) bottle with tapwater works fine for me.
I have the plated items in a perforated bucket to lift and rinse all the foils down while in the AP. Only need to shake every now and then to flush it all down to the bottom.
Then spray rinse off the pcb and plastic parts above another bucket, not diluting your AP.
Let it all settle for some time and decant the most of the AP back into the bucket to dissolve some more plated items. Filter the last bit and if there is white CuCl1 clogging the filter, rinse with a bit HCl. This will take some time.

I tried with pressurized bottle, it seems like static holds them, even the glass pipete I used to stirr has gold, will alcohol or soap affect anything? Soap will break the surface tension and should make everything sink?

 

[Shark]

Try a few drops of Jet Dry soap for dishwashers. Works well in plain water but have never tried with AP.

 

[war_child]

thank you, how was your gold lost? If the plastic was dissolved somehow it should not have affected the solution, it could be that the heat melt it?

Sorry dpgold, let me be more clear. The AP leach ended up partially melting the small, barbed fitting I used to connect the pieces of my air bubbler hose. Some of the plastic (or nylon) melted off, into the soaking ram fingers. The "goo" mixed with some gold foils, and those foils are locked up in the dried plastic/ nylon. The fitting is now a hardened mass containing more foils. You may be able to tell from the pictures, some of the dissolved nylon rose to the top of the soak, and retained even more foils as it hardened against the walls of the reaction vessel.

Be careful,
mike

 

[dpgold]

Sorry dpgold, let me be more clear. The AP leach ended up partially melting the small, barbed fitting I used to connect the pieces of my air bubbler hose. Some of the plastic (or nylon) melted off, into the soaking ram fingers. The "goo" mixed with some gold foils, and those foils are locked up in the dried plastic/ nylon. The fitting is now a hardened mass containing more foils. You may be able to tell from the pictures, some of the dissolved nylon rose to the top of the soak, and retained even more foils as it hardened against the walls of the reaction vessel.

Be careful,
mike

Thanks, I would grind it very fine and then separate it with water mechanically.

 

[dpgold]

I think you should filter and stock up those foils until you have studied enough and have a plan for us to review.

Or keep them in a bottle to shake and watch until you're ready to refine them. Or just keep dissolving more plated items until the bottom is full of foils and powder.

First, know how to deal with the waste you will create.

Then, know how to safely perform the processes needed to dissolve, chill, dilute, filter, precipitate, wash and melt your gold.

Where will you perform chemistry without endangering your surrounding family friends pets etc.

Where and how to store supplies, byproducts and waste.

So much to learn before putting you health at risk for that little bit of gold.

Take your time. A couple of months.

Ask if you can't find the answer or if you don't understand it. It all here for you to discover.

Have fun. Be safe.

Martijn.

Hi, I have a picture of what I filtered from the main solution, could I reuse the solution or just cement out copper ? I have put the filter aside for further refining when I have more. I have to wash the remains of the ribbons separately and filter more gold. I will do a stannous test anyway just for practice.

 

[Martijn]

Dpgold, as much as i love teaching, maybe even more than actually refining e-waste, you really need to read the replies we give you.
So, to repeat my advise:
Let it all settle for some time and decant the most of the AP back into the bucket to dissolve some more plated items.

 

[dpgold]

Dpgold, as much as i love teaching, maybe even more than actually refining e-waste, you really need to read the replies we give you.
So, to repeat my advise:
Let it all settle for some time and decant the most of the AP back into the bucket to dissolve some more plated items.

I put aside the main filtrate solution which I assume has power to dissolve other items, the previous batch was totally finished, all the metals came off but I want to find what is the yield to my batch because I kept a record of all the quantities I have used. I kept serparately the first filtrate of the AP, then I had to wash the remnants several times and filter again due to the size of the ribbon ends, some of the gold was floating and some was clinging to the walls so I had to filter again the remaining liquid. I am trying to follow your advice, sometimes maybe I don't understand everything completely.

 

[Martijn]

Ok, fair enough.

But how good are you at recovering and refining?
What i mean is, if you base future plans on results that are off by making beginner mistakes or not having a consistent process, then what is that specific yield number worth?
The yield difference between material from different manufacturers could be way larger than the precision of your measurement. Or vica versa.
Do you sort the plated cable ends by type and model? Or just a toss it all in a box approach? Do you cut off 0.6mm of unplated cable outside the plating or 1.16mm?
Get my point?
Giving no advantage in deciding if its worth recovering or what to expect in the future.

AP is a very simple process, making a bunch of plated ribbon ends profitable imo. Like ram fingers. It's easy to get to, easy to refine. Easy money.

Try to keep it simple until you have a lot more experience.
Start with scientific approach when you can keep all variables constant and change only one to measure effect. We once had a very commited member who gave yield numbers bases on a weight of 0.1 gram, where his smallest readout was 0.1 gram. That's a tolerance of about 100% making the yield number pretty much a guess. If he used a 0.001 gram scale, then it could be something worthwile.

Sooo,
Keep a portion of material seperate to test once you can.
Or better yet: keep ten equal portions separate and try to reproduce the yield on each batch to test the reliability of the obtained yield number.
Crawl first, then walk, then run.

Have fun studying. It can be a true eye opener once you start to understand what this fantastic science is all about.
Only ask if you really really can't find it.

Martijn.

Ps: assumptions are a recipe for disasters. Know. Understand. By reading what we've written in previous answers.

 

[dpgold]

Ok, fair enough.

But how good are you at recovering and refining?
What i mean is, if you base future plans on results that are off by making beginner mistakes or not having a consistent process, then what is that specific yield number worth?
The yield difference between material from different manufacturers could be way larger than the precision of your measurement. Or vica versa.
Do you sort the plated cable ends by type and model? Or just a toss it all in a box approach? Do you cut off 0.6mm of unplated cable outside the plating or 1.16mm?
Get my point?
Giving no advantage in deciding if its worth recovering or what to expect in the future.

AP is a very simple process, making a bunch of plated ribbon ends profitable imo. Like ram fingers. It's easy to get to, easy to refine. Easy money.

Try to keep it simple until you have a lot more experience.
Start with scientific approach when you can keep all variables constant and change only one to measure effect. We once had a very commited member who gave yield numbers bases on a weight of 0.1 gram, where his smallest readout was 0.1 gram. That's a tolerance of about 100% making the yield number pretty much a guess. If he used a 0.001 gram scale, then it could be something worthwile.

Sooo,
Keep a portion of material seperate to test once you can.
Or better yet: keep ten equal portions separate and try to reproduce the yield on each batch to test the reliability of the obtained yield number.
Crawl first, then walk, then run.

Have fun studying. It can be a true eye opener once you start to understand what this fantastic science is all about.
Only ask if you really really can't find it.

Martijn.

Ps: assumptions are a recipe for disasters. Know. Understand. By reading what we've written in previous answers.

before my firs beginner attempt with the ribbons I had tried to find all the information I could, for about a year, during this time somehow I missed the forum where I could have learn much much more, I partially read a book about the precious metals refining and did my best at understanding the process correctly. Learning chemistry takes time for me and I have to practice, that is why I started with what seemed the easiest, the ribbons. However the chemistry behind is complicated in the beginning for me. When I started I did not even know that gold dissolves in a liquid solution. Now I am trying to understand the CUCL1 and CUCL2 thing but I can really understand it when I translate in practice the theory. It took me a while to get some lab stuff at a reasonable cost, like beakers, chemicals, it is much harder to get them over here.
While I try to understand a process which, for some reason, seem to be hard for me I am searching for some other information which I could understand and memorize. Meanwhile experiments could take time this is why if I could safely start an experiment I would. I take notes and write everything about it so I know what I did. I think I mentioned that I also film mostly everything.
You are right about starting with the simple things. So far I followed the advice I got but I don't understand everything very very well that is why I keep reading and experimenting. Yesterday i did a bit of stannous solution just to make sure I can do some test . I put 1g of scraped tin in HCL 55 percent. I am trying to avoid mistakes.

 

[Martijn]

To avoid problems: stannous testing is done with one drop of solution and one drop of stannous on a white spot plate or filter paper. Not to be added to entire solutions.

 

[dpgold]

To avoid problems: stannous testing is done with one drop of solution and one drop of stannous on a white spot plate or filter paper. Not to be added to entire solutions.

Hi, I read again the Air Regenerated Acid Cupric Chloride article and try to comprehend a few thing since I can not wrap my head around all the formulas.
So I start with HCL and H2O2 and Oxigen from air plus the dissolved base metals. This becomes CUCL2 or Cupric Chloride? To renew the solution after eating away base metals I have to add HCL or H2O2 or both? That part I could not understand from the article. It seems like the space time continuum has warped.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi, I read again the Air Regenerated Acid Cupric Chloride article and try to comprehend a few thing since I can not wrap my head around all the formulas.
So I start with HCL and H2O2 and Oxigen from air plus the dissolved base metals. This becomes CUCL2 or Cupric Chloride? To renew the solution after eating away base metals I have to add HCL or H2O2 or both? That part I could not understand from the article. It seems like the space time continuum has warped.

Simply explained.
HCl can’t dissolve Copper, but it can convert Copper(I) Chloride to Copper (II) Chloride. The oxygen from the bubbler or H2O2 or plain dissolved air in HCl and Copper2 chloride oxidise the copper to CuCl and then the HCl transform that to Cu2Cl and the process restarts over and over again.
There are many threads explaining this on the forum. Among other this one 2nd attempt AP method