Hcl to dissolve tin

[Yggdrasil]

Hello sir,
Thanks for reply

Material came from AR process. I missed HCl bath before AR that was my mistake
And when precipitate with SMB i got this powder.

What does osmium do with the solution?

Where did the material to the AR process come from?
Osmium is extremely toxic and volatile and will evaporate into the air.
It will react with organic matter as our eyes where it will precipitate out and make you blind in the end and it is not curable.
Practically no one touches material with Osmium in it.

Did you test this with XRF?

The good thing is that XRFs are usually wrong with respect to Iridium, Rhodium and maybe even Osmium, unless they are set up right.
That means your Ir might be Arsenic which is also bad.

 

[Sunnyket]

Very informative message thanks for this.
After refining silver i got dust. That dust proceeded to AR
I did XRF with dust sample.
Dust powder weighs only 90 gm
That means osmium is about 1 gram.
&
XRF shows arsenic 0 %

 

[Yggdrasil]

Very informative message thanks for this.
After refining silver i got dust. That dust proceeded to AR
I did XRF with dust sample.
Dust powder weighs only 90 gm
That means osmium is about 1 gram.
&
XRF shows arsenic 0 %

Where did you get the Silver?
XRFs are not very smart, if they find something they don’t understand or have the correct library for the just pick the closest guess.
If it comes from Silverware, unless it is ancient there are no reason for there to be neither Os nor Ir. But in some cases Silver was plated with Rh but this seems too much for that.

 

[Sunnyket]

Where did you get the Silver?
XRFs are not very smart, if they find something they don’t understand or have the correct library for the just pick the closest guess.
If it comes from Silverware, unless it is ancient there are no reason for there to be neither Os nor Ir. But in some cases Silver was plated with Rh but this seems too much for that.

Yes, it is old silverware kind of.
Currently i tried 15gm sample in hot HCL.
And after an hour washed with hot water multiple times and dried. Dust looks greyish not like gold dust. I'll test this sample in XRF I'll update about it soon

 

[Sunnyket]

Yes, it is old silverware kind of.
Currently i tried 15gm sample in hot HCL.
And after an hour washed with hot water multiple times and dried. Dust looks greyish not like gold dust. I'll test this sample in XRF I'll update about it soon

Hello sir
Sample i tested and got following results
48.72 gold
0.22 Iridium
0.14 osmium
1.49 lead
0.32 rhenium
47.69 tin
0.91 Antimony

 

[J.Najam]

Hello,

recently I came across an ore seller willing to sell me this. I was kind of skeptical because of the cadmium present in this ore, as I have read it here many times that this compound along with arsenic and mercury are very dangerous substances to deal with in terms of processing. Does anyone really think its feasible an effort for a backyard prospector to deal in this kind of material?

Stats are given below.

Thanks

 

[Martijn]

I would be just as worried and carefull about the PGM's and the Chrome as the Cadmium. And it contains 85% iron! It does look like dust, be very carefull.
You should ask yourself: do I know how to process and separate these elements safe and cost effective? Do you have any experience with PGM's?
Can you control the risks involved with these processes?
Is the combined 4% Precious metals from 23 grams of material worth the risk, or is the gained experience from this little bit worth it?
What is the asking price?

 

[J.Najam]

What is the asking price?

Glad to hear from you,

I didn't get into further details with him, although I can if there is any interested party willing to buy this. He's got tons of these.

As per the rest of your questions, in all honesty I have never processed ores. Not even samples, this would have been the first sample of a few kilos, but given the concerns you have raised throws me into a pre-thought dilemma.

You should ask yourself:
do I know how to process and separate these elements safe and cost effective? NO
Do you have any experience with PGM's? NO
Can you control the risks involved with these processes? No Idea
Is the combined 4% Precious metals from 23 grams of material worth the risk, or is the gained experience from this little bit worth it? The gained experience could be, but combining the answers to the afore-asked questions I don't quite think its worth the risk since I don't have an experienced man to guide me being here physically.

So thanks for those little eye openers. Ill drop this plan. Also if anyone willing enough to buy this, can shoot me a PM and we'll see how it can be proceeded from here on out.

Cheers and Salaams

 

[Sunnyket]

Where did you get the Silver?
XRFs are not very smart, if they find something they don’t understand or have the correct library for the just pick the closest guess.
If it comes from Silverware, unless it is ancient there are no reason for there to be neither Os nor Ir. But in some cases Silver was plated with Rh but this seems too much for that.

Hello sir,
In hokes, On page number 71-72
Mentioned process for tin and lead present metal.(before AR)
First HCL then nitric then sulfuric wash.

In my case already nitric process done in first place. but not HCL and sulphuric. HCL is enough or both HCL and sulphuric needed?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello sir,
In hokes, On page number 71-72
Mentioned process for tin and lead present metal.(before AR)
First HCL then nitric then sulfuric wash.

In my case already nitric process done in first place. but not HCL and sulphuric. HCL is enough or both HCL and sulphuric needed?

If you have already used Nitric, the Metastannic will have formed.
No use for HCl or Sulfuric, it will probably dissolve the Lead but you will have a filtering issue.
It is notoriously hard to filter.
How do the material look like now?

 

[Sunnyket]

If you have already used Nitric, the Metastannic will have formed.
No use for HCl or Sulfuric, it will probably dissolve the Lead but you will have a filtering issue.
It is notoriously hard to filter.
How do the material look like now?

But in book hokes mentioned sulphuric will dissolve metastanic & remaining tin metal??

Actually after nitric I proceeded to AR and when precipitate with SMB i got greyish mud that includes 34% gold, 58% tin and 4 % lead

Now looks, greyish dark brown dried dust.

 

[Yggdrasil]

But in book hokes mentioned sulphuric will dissolve metastanic & remaining tin metal??

Actually after nitric I proceeded to AR and when precipitate with SMB i got greyish mud that includes 34% gold, 58% tin and 4 % lead

Now looks, greyish dark brown dried dust.

Take your mud, dry it and heat it to a low red glow and keep it there while stirring gently.
This will convert the tin to a form that can be dissolved in HCl.
With regard to Sulfuric, I can’t quite remember now and has not access to the book just now.
It will however dissolve metallic Tin if my memory serve me right.

 

[Sunnyket]

Take your mud, dry it and heat it to a low red glow and keep it there while stirring gently.
This will convert the tin to a form that can be dissolved in HCl.
With regard to Sulfuric, I can’t quite remember now and has not access to the book just now.
It will however dissolve metallic Tin if my memory serve me right.

Thanku sir, this helps alot for me
How much time and how much quantity of HCL I've to use in this process?
Also need heat or not?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thanku sir, this helps alot for me
How much time and how much quantity of HCL I've to use in this process?
Also need heat or not?

Just enough to dissolve the Tin salt.
I have been lucky enough to not need this method yet.
But slightly warm is my guess.

 

[Sunnyket]

Just enough to dissolve the Tin salt.
I have been lucky enough to not need this method yet.
But slightly warm is my guess.

Bit confused here, tin salt and metal two different things
Is that XRF machine shows the percentage of both form like tin in salt or tin in metal form?
When i tested sample of 15Gm with hot HCL for an 1-2 hour. Results are not good tin still present. Approximately 20% dissolved (as i Tested under XRF)

for dissolving tin completely how much time I've to wait ? 90 gm wt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Bit confused here, tin salt and metal two different things
Is that XRF machine shows the percentage of both form like tin in salt or tin in metal form?
When i tested sample of 15Gm with hot HCL for an 1-2 hour. Results are not good tin still present. Approximately 20% dissolved (as i Tested under XRF)

for dissolving tin completely how much time I've to wait ? 90 gm wt

Which Tin are you talking about?
Converted Metastannic acid or Tin metal?

 

[Sunnyket]

Which Tin are you talking about?
Converted Metastannic acid or Tin metal?

As i followed these steps..my knowledge is not that much to know what happened to tin please share your experience regarding this.

1. After Silver refining (with nitric) the filtered dust collected.
2. That dust processed in AR.
3. After precipitate with SMB i got whitish grey muddy slag no sign of gold dust. So i filtered all the material and washed multiple times. And dried well(after dry it looks grey reddish)
tested under XRF. That time gold 34 %, tin 58 % and lead 4 %. (Osmium , antimony, rhenium, iridium all in 4%)

now don't know it is tin metal or tin salt.

 

[Yggdrasil]

As i followed these steps..my knowledge is not that much to know what happened to tin please share your experience regarding this.

1. After Silver refining (with nitric) the filtered dust collected.
2. That dust processed in AR.
3. After precipitate with SMB i got whitish grey muddy slag no sign of gold dust. So i filtered all the material and washed multiple times. And dried well(after dry it looks grey reddish)
tested under XRF. That time gold 34 %, tin 58 % and lead 4 %. (Osmium , antimony, rhenium, iridium all in 4%)

now don't know it is tin metal or tin salt.

Was the Silver hollow? Knife handles and so on?
If not, there should not be any tin in there.
I assume the "dust" is the residue after Nitric digestion?
If so, did it change appearance and character after AR?

After processing with Nitric and AR there will not be any Tin Metal left, just metastannic acid which is a Tin salt.
H₂SnO₃ is its formula.

Powders are not well suited for XRF testing normally.

 

[Sunnyket]

Was the Silver hollow? Knife handles and so on?
If not, there should not be any tin in there.
I assume the "dust" is the residue after Nitric digestion?
If so, did it change appearance and character after AR?

After processing with Nitric and AR there will not be any Tin Metal left, just metastannic acid which is a Tin salt.
H₂SnO₃ is its formula.

Powders are not well suited for XRF testing normally.

Silver is old jewellery.

Yes dust is residue after nitric (silver refining)process.

Milky yellow colour of AR.
(That day i think i did one mistake as per my knowledge, i didn't wait for cooldown the AR liquid i took it early for filtration)

But metastanic acid will be left on filter right?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Silver is old jewellery.

Yes dust is residue after nitric (silver refining)process.

Milky yellow colour of AR.
(That day i think i did one mistake as per my knowledge, i didn't wait for cooldown the AR liquid i took it early for filtration)

But metastanic acid will be left on filter right?

The AR itself is not interesting in this setting, even though the milkiness may be from Metastannic acid.
Did the powder change after the AR?
The Metastannic acid in this setting would have formed in the Nitric stage.
Metastannic acid is notoriously hard to filter so it should be very obvious that it is that.
Te finest particles may go through, what kind of filter do you use?

Edit for clarity