Hcl to dissolve tin

[Jmk88]

Thanks Butcher and I fully get where you’re coming from.

I’ll keep you posted of my process. Each step of the way. This will include all hurdles and things that go wrong, I’m not here for glory I’m here to become the best I can.

 

[Williamjf77]

I see other posts on here of people who can’t get nitric using Copper Chloride to do gold filled. That’s why I said use hcl peroxide after the material was cleaned. It seemed to have worked for some on here, maybe not the fastest or most effective but I believe it will strip everything won’t it?

 

[Jmk88]

Thanks William.

I think what you’re referring to is the minor addition of peroxide when dissolving copper to form copper chloride which yes, is advisable if no gold is in with it.

It will speed up the dissolving of copper and leave you with copper chloride.

 

[Jmk88]

I prefer an air bubbler. Cheaper and no risk of dissolved and cemented gold.

 

[Williamjf77]

How do you plan to strip the base metals after the NaOH? I would think without nitric it would have to be Cooper Chloride or Ferric Chloride? That’s why I thought you could skip the solder removal and go straight to the acid.

 

[Williamjf77]

Also the whole debate on the quantity of material seemed only based on watches, but as you said only some of the material is watches. I think you threw everyone a curveball by showing the whole watch in the solution when most would just put the band, at least that’s where I would think any solder would be.

I know the last gold filled I did had some kind of solder or just real crap material to begin with.

 

[Jmk88]

William,

I weigh everything in terms of time and cost. Both are infinitely linked.

The time it takes to remove all those components isn’t worth doing. My process will cause all screens and faces to detach and float.

It would take me a day or half to remove all of them manually.

Yes the watches make up under 10% of my material. But I still haven’t seen anyone offer realistic numbers despite criticising mine.

 

[anachronism]

Yes and please don’t think ignorance is a demon that I entertain... it really isn’t.

The information I find here is second to none; it’s the practicality of when the theoretical doesn’t work. And the reality is, I ignored professional advice and went with hcl the first time and it just created an absolute mess which nearly lost me my guidance.

I then had to humbly plead for the professional to clean my mess up; as a man, having other people clean your mess up is not very encouraging or where I personally want to be.

If your professional is that good-why are you even here? You're certainly not listening to anyone on the forum.

 

[Jmk88]

Jon,

I do believe I’ve kindly asked you to refrain from negative comments.

Why would anyone want to learn from a professional? I’m gonna have a stab at that one, I reckon it might, just possibly be, that they would like to also become a professional.

It’s a bit like the frequent “you watched a YouTube video and think you can” comments you make to everyone.

It’s crazy to think that Lebron James saw Michael Jordan doing his thing on TV and thought “I can do that”. How did he ever have the nerve?

It’s called inspiration Jon, something you haven’t yet shown me.

 

[Williamjf77]

William,

I weigh everything in terms of time and cost. Both are infinitely linked.

The time it takes to remove all those components isn’t worth doing. My process will cause all screens and faces to detach and float.

It would take me a day or half to remove all of them manually.

Yes the watches make up under 10% of my material. But I still haven’t seen anyone offer realistic numbers despite criticising mine.

I still don’t see what you are trying to accomplish with watches in NaOH, the crystal and the movement come out easily and the watch bands are all mechanical connections which will be springs and pins or something that aren’t gold filled and most likely steel . I don’t see how anything but dissolving the whole case away is going to liberate the movement.

 

[Jmk88]

William,

Lead in strong alkali forms a salt, also known as plumbites. This happens when lead is hydrated (hydroxide) and forms brown precipitate (salts). Alkalis that are concentrated (I use 99% - obtained from soap makers) will do this.

I suggest looking up lead plumbates which you’ll find is consistent with the pictures I’ve posted. Then add lead or solder prior and you will be on the right path.

If it’s pure lead, it will be a red dust. If mixed or an alloy, it will be dark brown as my pics.

I suggest reading, and some more. Not just you.

I’ve given you enough information to learn it and make your own mind up. I can’t connect the dots for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumbite

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9783527656189.ch14

 

[anachronism]

Jon,

I do believe I’ve kindly asked you to refrain from negative comments.

Why would anyone want to learn from a professional? I’m gonna have a stab at that one, I reckon it might, just possibly be, that they would like to also become a professional.

It’s a bit like the frequent “you watched a YouTube video and think you can” comments you make to everyone.

It’s crazy to think that Lebron James saw Michael Jordan doing his thing on TV and thought “I can do that”. How did he ever have the nerve?

It’s called inspiration Jon, something you haven’t yet shown me.

Haha priceless. Who on earth do you think you are with your self important opinionated and entitled attitude?

You come here into OUR forum, and start telling people who they can talk to and what they can and cannot say. You know absolutely nothing about me or what I do, but I've tried my best to be polite and now I'm fed up to the back teeth with your holier than thou attitude and lack of respect for all the help people are trying to give you. Frankly your level of knowledge sucks but you seem to feel you have something to offer. That's delusion.

If you are going to nay say everyone in favour of your professional then I really don't see the point of any of it.

Have a lovely day- I am going to the gym. Over and out. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Jmk88]

Thanks Jon,

Enjoy the gym and have a lovely day.

I have no issues with you not giving me advice at all. I wish you well.

Take care,

 

[Jmk88]

William,

You may also find it interesting that the work plumber derived from Latin (which I have a great knowledge of) and essentially means “a man that works with lead”.

The original was Plumbarius (plumber) and Plumbum means lead.

Regards,

 

[Williamjf77]

William,

Lead in strong alkali forms a salt, also known as plumbites. This happens when lead is hydrated (hydroxide) and forms brown precipitate (salts). Alkalis that are concentrated (I use 99% - obtained from soap makers) will do this.

I suggest looking up lead plumbates which you’ll find is consistent with the pictures I’ve posted. Then add lead or solder prior and you will be on the right path.

If it’s pure lead, it will be a red dust. If mixed or an alloy, it will be dark brown as my pics.

I suggest reading, and some more. Not just you.

I’ve given you enough information to learn it and make your own mind up. I can’t connect the dots for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumbite

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9783527656189.ch14

I get the tin removal but how does the NaOH Help in separating the watch movement and crystal. Removal of the crystal and movement is the easiest part. I don’t get it unless your watch bands are held together by lead and tin and the movement is soldered in. That’s what doesn’t make sense.

So basically in English translated from Latin , how does removing solder help separating a connection that isn’t soldered together.

 

[Jmk88]

William,

It doesn’t. You then dissolve your base with your acid of choice; nitric or other means.

Regards,

 

[butcher]

Some metals are very reactive, some will just sit there and look at you with passivation on its face...

The very first part of any recovery process normally begins by separating the values from the gangue and other trash or metals.

Trying to process the whole mountain in a leach for a little valuable metals normally does not go well, it is simpler to remover the ore, separate and concentrate the values, remove as much of the valuable metal from the mountain, and process that for a recovery of the metal, and then take that metal and purify it further through refining...

It appears to us at this point, your trying to dissolve the whole mountain.

 

[Williamjf77]

That was kind of my point, removing tin and lead first before treating with nitric makes sense because of the metastatic acid. But copper chloride would just dissolve the tin lead and copper and steel wouldn’t it?

 

[Shark]

For over a year I processed foils from gold filled that had been ran in copper chloride. These foils were bought already processed and the buyer needed someone to finish them up. In that year plus, lead was never an issue, nor was tin. The guy could have left them in the copper chloride a bit longer to reduce the amount of copper, but wasn't much a problem either. I have run gold filled that way myself as well as used nitric, even ran it in nitric made in the same beaker as my gold filled. There are many ways to do it, and each will have it's own set of complications to deal with. The biggest difference between copper chloride and nitric is the time involved, so long as you know how to deal with the differences each pose.

 

[Jmk88]

William,

No it’s back to the debate of dissolution rate. Place some lead in hcl and cc and you wait three weeks. Just do 50 grams. You’ll see my point.

Like Shark said, he is spot on, nitric and cc comes down to time. Cc will take a lot longer. Nitric you’d be done in less than 8 hours.

Kind Regards,