Hcl to dissolve tin

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18k gold filled.

There is about 12 or 13 watches in total if my
Memory is correct.

Thos was just a sample to show people how caustic removes the solder which I hope is apparent from the pics.

Here is another one that shows the removal after half an hour of the first clean. You can see the lead and tin.
 

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Jmk88 said:
In total I have 4kg which I hope to get 80-120 grams of pure gold from.
Best of luck with that. :cry: 4 kg of scrap, including watch movement, watch bands with all the stainless steel parts of the bands that touch the arm, the springs, the watch backs, etc. NONE of that is gold filled. The gold filled weight only refers to the caps of the bands on the outside, and the exterior of the cases. All the gold on gold filled jewelry is on the outside surface, which is subject to wear, with the gold filled layer wearing away first. You never achieve anywhere close to the theoretical yield.

See my point?
No. I spent twenty years in the jewelry business, dealing with everything from gold filled, to karat, to platinum alloys. About the only time I encountered tin or lead based alloys was if a "handyman" used a soldering iron or torch to repair a piece with plumbing solder.

I think you're going to be disappointed with your result

Dave
 
well I’ll keep you posted with my disappointment!

:wink:

I can only comment on my experience; 3 days to dissolve 4 grams of solder isn’t what I call efficient.

But we’ve gone over that!
 
I am also interested in this thread and following it with interest (as long as no one gets harmed), I cannot see how this is going to work without a lot more problems, the material is low yield and troublesome, especially for a beginner...
 
18k of gold fill:

4kg/100 * 5 = 200

200/100= 2

2 * 75 = 150grams

Allow for wear (I know the condition and it’s tip top)

At worst half of that 75 grams. For a 400£ outlay isn’t too bad. At best 150 grams means you turn 400£ to either £2,800 or £5,700.

I can buy this like I can buy a pint of milk.

The solder is removed as you can see in the pic. Copper chloride will do the rest.

I’m a beginner but I am being guided! It’s not being done for me but I do have guidance as well as all the amazing information here.
 
I can not follow the math without some type of explanation of what the numbers actually represent.

I am not sure of what other guidence you have available, hopefully, it is helping you to understand the dangers involved and pointing you in a safe you in at least a safe direction.

I still fail to see how you are going to pull this off without a lot of trouble. Can it be done that way, yes, but why go through all of the trouble?
 
Because without the use of nitric there isn’t any other way.

And I’m unable currently to use nitric.
 
Gold filled here means a minimum of 5 % of the overall item weight is the karat it’s stamped with.

So you take 5% of 4kg at 18k.

I trust that now makes sense.
 
It helps to know what the numbers represent, I will let some others check your math of the possible gold content, at least now I can follow your figures,

I see more problems with the way you are preparing your scrap for recovery, I do not see that using the hydroxide is much of a problem (be sure to wear your eye protection, lye makes soap with oils from your skin and make slippery in your hands...

I still fail to see what benefit has here over HCl, with the type of materials involved.

Either way, I would spend more time preparing your scrap, the less trash in, the less trouble, and trash out.
 
I may be wrong here but when an item is stamped gold filled case the 5% means of the case and when it says gf tops it means 5% of the weight of the band.

That’s why necklaces say 1/20 12kt gf because the whole piece is gold clad. But when you get to watches it usually says gf tops on the band and something like GF case, SS back or whatever it tends to be
 
Did you bother to read the post I made above? The gold filled parts of a watch are just the case. The movement inside is part of your 4 kg, but it's not gold filled. The same applies to any stainless steel watch backs and the spring bars. And the same applies to the watchbands. Only the caps of the watchband are gold filled. The bottoms, springs, etc. are not gold filled, but they are a large part of your 4 kg.

I'm not even going to argue the use of lye to dissolve solder you believe is there. I'm just talking about the starting weight of your material vs. the yield you're expecting.

But don't listen to those of us who have done this before. I'll wait for your results.

Dave
 
Jmk88 said:
Gold filled here means a minimum of 5 % of the overall item weight is the karat it’s stamped with.

So you take 5% of 4kg at 18k.

I trust that now makes sense.




You should take out the movements and crystals and weigh one and then do your math, and even that would probably be too high of an estimate.
 
Williamjf77 said:
I may be wrong here but when an item is stamped gold filled case the 5% means of the case and when it says gf tops it means 5% of the weight of the band.
Yes, you're wrong about the bands. If the band says gold filled TOPS, it means the TOPS only, not the entire weight of the band. The bottoms, springs, etc. are not part of the gold filled weight.

That’s why necklaces say 1/20 12kt gf because the whole piece is gold clad. But when you get to watches it usually says gf tops on the band and something like GF case, SS back or whatever it tends to be
Correct.

Dave
 
We really need the popcorn emoji.

I don't think you understand the difference between solder in electronics (which can be dissolved with lye) and solder in jewelry (which can't)

You are just making a mess.

Gold filled weight percentages only refer to metal with a copper/brass/silver alloy base. Stainless is specifically excluded from weight in the gold filled legal descriptions.

4kg of mens gold filled watches with gold filled bands with zero wear MAY get you an ounce or a tiny bit more.
 
Williamjf77 said:
Jmk88 said:
Gold filled here means a minimum of 5 % of the overall item weight is the karat it’s stamped with.

So you take 5% of 4kg at 18k.

I trust that now makes sense.




You should take out the movements and crystals and weigh one and then do your math, and even that would probably be too high of an estimate.

Much too high.
 
I wasn’t sure about the bands. I know that watches are pretty specific on labeling where the gold is on gold fill pieces.

Not to burst his bubble but there is probably a good reason why he can get so much of it. Watches take tedious work to disassemble. That would be a great profit margin though. On eBay I have a hard time finding GF for 80% of gold value. He’s paying what 5% Can’t be right.
 
Most women's watches I have dealt with, when complete, are only about 1/3 of that weight broken down. (Example not exact numbers)...A whole watch that weighed 100 grams, when stripped down to the gold filled averages about 30 grams. Most men's watches have been even worse. There are many watch's out there that do better, but assuming all of yours is better is a serious mistake. I have took in 1000 grams of material and ended up with less than 700 when cleaned and stripped several times, some were even worse than that. Examining your pictures leads me to think also that much of what you see is the dead skin and sweat from the jewelry having been worn a lot, ground into the cracks and crevices and being ate away the same as boiling in hot water would do.

This reminds of the people who dump whole boards into acid and can't figure out where they went wrong.
 
Now that we know you can’t get nitric , I would think you should have used HCL and peroxide after you stripped the watches.
 
With all the knowledge on dissolving solder (lead/tin) in this thread hopefully someone can help me with the reverse problem:
How can I dissolve the lead chloride & stannus chloride from the leaching process?
I got tiny specks of gold mixed with it that I am trying to filter out and recover.
 
Lead chloride is somewhat soluble in cold water
0.67 grams of lead (II) chloride PbCl2 is soluble in water at 0 degrees C.
0.98g/100g H2O @ 20 deg C.
1.08g/100g H2O @ 25 deg C.
1.19g/100g H2O @ 30 deg C.
1.32g/100g H2O @35 deg C.
1.78g/100g H2O @ 50 deg C.
2.13g/100g H2O @ 65 deg C.
2,62g/100g H2O @ 80 deg C.
3,25g/100g H2O @ 100 deg C.

So with very hot water (soaking wash), we can dissolve a couple of grams of lead chloride--decanting the solution while hot (with all of the silver chloride settled), letting this wastewater cool to lower the solubility of the lead chloride, when cool return the water (leaving most of the lead salt behind) to pick up more lead chloride from your reaction vessel with a reheat, repeat this until you no longer get the needle-like PbCl2 crystals in the cooled wash water.

Silver chloride is white and fluffy or milky can be hard to settle it likes to move around easily in solution. So you may have to lower heat from a rolling or bubbling and give the silver salt some time to settle when you remove lead chloride...
Silver chloride is insoluble in cold or hot water or in acid.

Tin (is just a problem ), some of the soluble tin salts will be washed out with the lead and the hot water washes above, the hot water washes can also promote further oxidation of the tin salts that and exposure to air or other conditions you could have a variety of tin salts or oxides involved.
SnCl2 is soluble in water, about 98g SnCl2/100g H2O @ 20 deg C. and stannous chloride is very soluble in HCl acid.
SnCl4 stannic chloride (hydrolyzes in water) soluble in concentrated. 20% HCl.
but you are more likely to have other oxides of tin such as;
SnO2 tin (IV) oxide stannic insoluble in water, soluble in concentrated HCl (hydrolyzes to goo in dilute of cold solutions)
Sn(OH)2 stannous hydroxides insoluble in water, but soluble in concentrated 20% HCl.
Sn(OH)3 stannite (Normally made from SnO or some other tin salt or tin oxide reacted with a strong base), soluble in strong HCl...

Tin chloride salts in a warmer more concentrated acid solution will form a little less of the jelly-like goo, tin chloride salts in dilute solution or water hydrolyze to give more trouble in filtering...

Water washes after acid washes will remove more salts and in some cases make the salts easier to oxidize, lowering the acid involved...

Many of the other base metal chlorides will also be soluble in the hot water washes or in the HCl washes...

We can go different ways from this point to get the silver (through a complex) as an ammonium complex in which there is a danger of making an explosive compound if not carefully performed properly, (acidified to recover silver and make safer), there is also thiosulfate which can dissolve silver...

Because of the chloride salts involved, we would not want to go straight to nitric acid at this point (unless our goal was to put gold into solution), the silver chloride insoluble in the acid.


Silver chloride salts, along with the other base metal chloride salts, would put some gold into solution as the base metal chloride reformed HCl in solution with the gold and nitric acid...

With fine gold or foils, we can dissolve the gold in a chloride solution without using nitric, we can use hypochlorites or H2O2...

Silver chloride is insoluble in aqua regia where the gold is soluble...
Or in a gold chloride solution made sodium hypochlorite or H2O2 or some other suitable oxidizer...

Or

We can wash the insoluble silver and base metals salts in a solution of NaOH this will lower some of the acidity, help oxidize some of the base metals (may dissolve some of the more amphoteric base metals along the way), and help us to convert base metal chlorides to sodium chloride salt (table salt) that can be washed with water, drying these salts they can be fused ( to further drive off acids and convert to oxides, and then roasted in a red heat fine powders stirred well and well exposed to oxygen or atmospheric air to complete the conversion of base metals ready for most any acid like nitric...

Edited to add a little info and grammar corrections as best I could.
 

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