Hello, New here, think I made a mistake..

[pu_239]

I didn't know exactly where to post my issue. I am currently majoring in chemistry, so I understand the chemistry behind all this. I have done very similar methods in lab many times(but not with gold).

I bought 1,300 dollars of lab equipment, one reason was to do the gold refining, the other reason was just to build my own lab. 90% of the stuff i bought isn't so much for gold recovery.

Here's my issue, I think I paid too much for memory cards. I was hoping to make a profit, but it doesn't appear I will(based on calculations). I have searched for the last 3 days for a solid answer, I just can't find one.

1. "On average, How much gold is in 1lbs of memory cards?" (question i can't find the answer to.)
2. "If i paid too much, how much should i pay on average/lbs?" Obviously I am gaining experience in this, I know different finger boards can go for different amounts. I am just looking for a safety net figure.
3. Is the best investment in rams, or in other computer components?
4. "Is there any problem of putting the gold fingers in to concentrated HCl, to dissolve everything except the gold. Filter it. Then hit the gold with some aqua regia, Dissolve the gold, neutralize the aqua regia then hit the solution with the SMB to crash out the gold. Filter out the gold and test the solution with SnCl2(tin chloride) to check for gold. If the test is positive, add some more SMB and repeat till the test is negative? I also have an idea for a centrifuge to take the gold out of the solution after you add the SMB more quickly.

BTW i paid about 19 dollars a pound for the memory cards.

 

[solar_plasma]

Welcome pu_239,

if you want to make a profit with small lots, you need to get e-scrap for free or almost for free. If you don't consider the time spent and the lab ware, you will often go +/- zero, if you pay what the large refineries pay and have the PMs for the net price.

HCl alone will not dissolve copper. Look for the threads about CuCl2 leach.

As far as possible we never boil PM containing solutions. If you have to, you need some kind of reflux to avoid loss.

Being a chemist will make a lot of things easier for you, but chemistry makes only 10% of the art. You can't fill a bottle, that is already full, so expect to be knowing nothing. Download Hoke, read and live it. Search for the advices given to new members.

You have found an extraordinary place, where you will find all your questions already answered. This forum is full of people, who has done this a half lifetime professionally, full of chemists, physicists, engineers and impressive and ingenious autodidacts. If you understand this quickly, you have found a goldmine of information and helpful people.

 

[Pantherlikher]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Rule #1 for this forum is to humble yourself to knowing nothing. You will prove yourself quickly either way.

Why spend $1300 just to buy equipment you may never use?. Hopefully that money went to get a nice fume hood.
Anything else is just for show until you know exactly what you want to accomplish and what materials you will need.

Rule #1 can be identified by your brazen introduction of chemistry. Sounds like you are very intelligent. Is that book smart or life smart?
After stating this, Your problem of not being able to find yields on the memory are unnerving. I just did a search on this forum and found many posts describing yields and variances and how much to expect on memory and how to process them.

"Then hit the gold with some aqua regia, Dissolve the gold, neutralize the aqua regia then hit the solution with the SMB to crash out the gold. "

The above highlighted quotes from you indicate a twenties something kid that is just starting in chemistry class looking to cut corners for a quick buck. Not 1 gone through the class and ready to take on the world so to speak.

Feel intimidated, angry at how dare I? Good, sit and let it soak in a minute and then begin to realize, we speak facts and truths based on experience and learning. Be humble and you will be please at what there is to learn by all the knowledge freely shared here.

Please? and hopefully you can add your experience and we can all grow from our time here.

B.S.

Good luck and begin learning at the welcome section of the forum and it will lead you to many things and directions

 

[heliman4141]

Solar_plasma is spot on,
Ive been there done that & I didn't even waste any money on any special lab equipment other then the bare min. equipment necessary to refine & buying any stock is & was a loosing proposition period. I made some Gold but it cost me dearly financially in the long run. Bust guess is it ran me over $100 a gram or worse.

If you were a Jeweler or owned a PC repair shop, run a E-scrap recycle yard, or worked at or ran a similar business where you end up with free scrap, then yes you can make a profit in time. If you have to buy the scrap then its simply an education in refining & a test of patience for a very small amount of Gold in the end.

Where you are at now is in the position of having to locate several sources where you can depend on reliable E-scrap or jewelry flowing constantly to you for free or almost free. That is tough today as the public has wised up to the value of these items and won't let them go freely and is probably refining or selling it themselves already & the manufacturers also now use much less Gold in their components further making the amount of scrap having to be refined doubled or worse to get the same amount of PM as one used to get when Gold was cheap back in the 80s etc....

Without some serious good connections its really hard to make any positive income refining, my suggestion is keep the day job whatever it is & enjoy the refining education, the chemistry is fun & interesting. Turning metals to salts then back again plus dealing with tin & lead makes things interesting.

First thing you will learn is how many different ways ea. different type of material must be processed so you don't end up with a mess, there is no one way. Hokes will explain this in detail.
Step cautiously tho financially until you can (hopefully) find a very reliable scrap source, otherwise you will end up with a lot of equipment sitting empty & collecting dust.

Dave

 

[pu_239]

Welcome pu_239,

if you want to make a profit with small lots, you need to get e-scrap for free or almost for free. If you don't consider the time spent and the lab ware, you will often go +/- zero, if you pay what the large refineries pay and have the PMs for the net price.

HCl alone will not dissolve copper. Look for the threads about CuCl2 leach.

I made the mistake of thinking a “gold finger” is 1 ram board(finger board + gold finger). I did my calculations based off that. You’re right (as you already know) HCl doesn’t dissolve copper. I don’t know why I said that, I probably meant Nitric acid. I am noticing a lot of sulfate is involved in these reactions. Sulfuric acid can be used to make nitric acid, and sodium metal bisulfate as well. I will look in to better sources for scrap. I think it was you who mentioned a reflux. I was planning on refluxing the HCl and the H2O2(hydrogen peroxide) mixture. In this step, I don’t see the gold coming out of solution, I don’t believe it’s necessary to do it in a reflux. It won’t turn the gold in to a gas allowing for evaporation. The questionable part is refluxing the SMB + AuCl4- solution. I just looked In to it, it’s pointless. The AuCl4- will decompose. It will result in the “opposite” reaction I want. It might be best to use an ice bath. (I need to look at a thermodynamic info on it)
Thanks for your input.

 

[pu_239]

Hello and welcome to the forum.


Why spend $1300 just to buy equipment you may never use?. Hopefully that money went to get a nice fume hood.
Anything else is just for show until you know exactly what you want to accomplish and what materials you will need.

"Then hit the gold with some aqua regia, Dissolve the gold, neutralize the aqua regia then hit the solution with the SMB to crash out the gold. "

The above highlighted quotes from you indicate a twenties something kid that is just starting in chemistry class looking to cut corners for a quick buck. Not 1 gone through the class and ready to take on the world so to speak.

Feel intimidated, angry at how dare I? Good, sit and let it soak in a minute and then begin to realize, we speak facts and truths based on experience and learning. Be humble and you will be please at what there is to learn by all the knowledge freely shared here.

Please? and hopefully you can add your experience and we can all grow from our time here.

B.S.

Good luck and begin learning at the welcome section of the forum and it will lead you to many things and directions

The aqua regia comment was more of a thought, really didn’t investigate it much. In analytical chemistry, a lot of metals are separated. In General Chemsitry 2. You’re giving a solution with a mixture of metals, you have no idea what is in it, you have to separate them out and figure out what was in your solution. This was a big part of the grade. You need to know what will react and what won’t, while taking in to consideration everything in the solution. As I said, it was originally just a thought. I investigated it a little bit and I noticed SMB will react with other metals in the solution. If done correctly thought, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. You’re right, I guess my equipment is just for show right now. Kind of feel like a waste, but I’ll figure out something to do with it.

My experience? As I mentioned, I am a student, a 32yr old student (late bloomer). I have been doing inorganic chemistry (what gold recovery is) for about 2 and half years. This semester I started organic chemistry. Yes I am looking for a way to make a quick buck.

Thanks I will check out the welcome section.

 

[pu_239]

Solar_plasma is spot on,
Ive been there done that & I didn't even waste any money on any special lab equipment other then the bare min. equipment necessary to refine & buying any stock is & was a loosing proposition period. I made some Gold but it cost me dearly financially in the long run. Bust guess is it ran me over $100 a gram or worse.

If you were a Jeweler or owned a PC repair shop, run a E-scrap recycle yard, or worked at or ran a similar business where you end up with free scrap, then yes you can make a profit in time. If you have to buy the scrap then its simply an education in refining & a test of patience for a very small amount of Gold in the end.

Where you are at now is in the position of having to locate several sources where you can depend on reliable E-scrap or jewelry flowing constantly to you for free or almost free. That is tough today as the public has wised up to the value of these items and won't let them go freely and is probably refining or selling it themselves already & the manufacturers also now use much less Gold in their components further making the amount of scrap having to be refined doubled or worse to get the same amount of PM as one used to get when Gold was cheap back in the 80s etc....

Without some serious good connections its really hard to make any positive income refining, my suggestion is keep the day job whatever it is & enjoy the refining education, the chemistry is fun & interesting. Turning metals to salts then back again plus dealing with tin & lead makes things interesting.

First thing you will learn is how many different ways ea. different type of material must be processed so you don't end up with a mess, there is no one way. Hokes will explain this in detail.
Step cautiously tho financially until you can (hopefully) find a very reliable scrap source, otherwise you will end up with a lot of equipment sitting empty & collecting dust.

Dave

Good advice, and I am glad someone can sympathy. I am a former computer technician, i had my own business for a little while. I can talk to some people, go round some computer stores and see if i can find anything. I will process these memory cards i got and see my % yield and prices of gold and go from there. I will tread carefully from now on. I will do something with my lab, hopefully I will break even. I will have a little money to reinvest. Electrolysis comes to mind, electro plating(gold/silver/chrome), rust removal. Even making oils comes to mind. I will figure something out. Thanks for your valuable input

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Take a look at the Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread. Be sure to follow all the links, especially the Guided Tour link. If you follow them all, it will get you off to a good start here.

Dave

 

[butcher]

pu_239,

Your chemistry background will be a help in understanding the reactions, like others have said, gold recovery and refining is something even a chemist will need to study and practice to learn, to be successful at.

I believe the forum is the best place in the world to study and learn the chemistry and art of gold recovery and refining, it is like a vast library of useful information with helpful members, to help you in your study of this science, and art. A great place to study and gain the skills needed to produce very fine gold or other precious metals.

I am glad to see another chemist join the forum, this gives us a chance to learn from your experience as a chemist, and share ideas as we learn this art together, an art that can take several lifetimes to learn just a little of all there is to know about this interesting subject.
Welcome to the forum I think your going to love it here.

 

[solar_plasma]

Welcome pu_239,

if you want to make a profit with small lots, you need to get e-scrap for free or almost for free. If you don't consider the time spent and the lab ware, you will often go +/- zero, if you pay what the large refineries pay and have the PMs for the net price.

HCl alone will not dissolve copper. Look for the threads about CuCl2 leach.

I made the mistake of thinking a “gold finger” is 1 ram board(finger board + gold finger). I did my calculations based off that. You’re right (as you already know) HCl doesn’t dissolve copper. I don’t know why I said that, I probably meant Nitric acid. I am noticing a lot of sulfate is involved in these reactions. Sulfuric acid can be used to make nitric acid, and sodium metal bisulfate as well. I will look in to better sources for scrap. I think it was you who mentioned a reflux. I was planning on refluxing the HCl and the H2O2(hydrogen peroxide) mixture. In this step, I don’t see the gold coming out of solution, I don’t believe it’s necessary to do it in a reflux. It won’t turn the gold in to a gas allowing for evaporation. The questionable part is refluxing the SMB + AuCl4- solution. I just looked In to it, it’s pointless. The AuCl4- will decompose. It will result in the “opposite” reaction I want. It might be best to use an ice bath. (I need to look at a thermodynamic info on it)
Thanks for your input.

Maybe I didn't explain it very well, but you got everything wrong. I do not know,if you really are a chemist, if so, this is the best example, studying chemistry does not make a refiner a priori.

If you just tend to understand only what you like to hear, I will try to be more clear, listen: You have no clue about the chemistry of refining!

This is not meant mean in any way. If you don't understand this, you will just be another one-hit wonder.

You can't fill a glass that already is full.

 

[pu_239]

Welcome pu_239,

if you want to make a profit with small lots, you need to get e-scrap for free or almost for free. If you don't consider the time spent and the lab ware, you will often go +/- zero, if you pay what the large refineries pay and have the PMs for the net price.

HCl alone will not dissolve copper. Look for the threads about CuCl2 leach.

I made the mistake of thinking a “gold finger” is 1 ram board(finger board + gold finger). I did my calculations based off that. You’re right (as you already know) HCl doesn’t dissolve copper. I don’t know why I said that, I probably meant Nitric acid. I am noticing a lot of sulfate is involved in these reactions. Sulfuric acid can be used to make nitric acid, and sodium metal bisulfate as well. I will look in to better sources for scrap. I think it was you who mentioned a reflux. I was planning on refluxing the HCl and the H2O2(hydrogen peroxide) mixture. In this step, I don’t see the gold coming out of solution, I don’t believe it’s necessary to do it in a reflux. It won’t turn the gold in to a gas allowing for evaporation. The questionable part is refluxing the SMB + AuCl4- solution. I just looked In to it, it’s pointless. The AuCl4- will decompose. It will result in the “opposite” reaction I want. It might be best to use an ice bath. (I need to look at a thermodynamic info on it)
Thanks for your input.

Maybe I didn't explain it very well, but you got everything wrong. I do not know,if you really are a chemist, if so, this is the best example, studying chemistry does not make a refiner a priori.

If you just tend to understand only what you like to hear, I will try to be more clear, listen: You have no clue about the chemistry of refining!

This is not meant mean in any way. If you don't understand this, you will just be another one-hit wonder.

You can't fill a glass that already is full.

All i see is you're "making claims" please tell me where my process is wrong...

 

[g_axelsson]

I made the mistake of thinking a “gold finger” is 1 ram board(finger board + gold finger). I did my calculations based off that. You’re right (as you already know) HCl doesn’t dissolve copper. I don’t know why I said that, I probably meant Nitric acid. I am noticing a lot of sulfate is involved in these reactions. Sulfuric acid can be used to make nitric acid, and sodium metal bisulfate as well. I will look in to better sources for scrap. I think it was you who mentioned a reflux. I was planning on refluxing the HCl and the H2O2(hydrogen peroxide) mixture. In this step, I don’t see the gold coming out of solution, I don’t believe it’s necessary to do it in a reflux. It won’t turn the gold in to a gas allowing for evaporation. The questionable part is refluxing the SMB + AuCl4- solution. I just looked In to it, it’s pointless. The AuCl4- will decompose. It will result in the “opposite” reaction I want. It might be best to use an ice bath. (I need to look at a thermodynamic info on it)
Thanks for your input.

First of all SMB is Sodium Meta Bisulfite, not "sodium metal bisulfate", there's a huge difference between them.
Secondly, you shouldn't boil any solution with values in without some type of reflux. Not because of the reflux is needed but if you boil something the bubbles will create an aerosol that takes the values away as small droplets. The reflux catches the small drops of gold chloride and brings it back to the reaction vessel.
Third, no one has told you to boil your gold chloride + SMB. On the contrary it is better done cold as I explained in the other thread.
And finally, realize that you don't know anything about refining. If something is recommended by people that have done it, ask yourself why first, don't try to be smart and defensive and telling us that we know nothing. A humble view of the art of refining would be good. Anybody can make 99% pure gold with little training but to reach 99.95% and beyond consistently requires experience and all tricks of the trade. You will find all the tricks here at this forum.

Slow down and read the recommended book. If you are as good as you claim it shouldn't take too much time to digest and get up to speed. Honestly, so far you haven't impressed me and I'm a physicist with only physical chemistry during my university time.

The real chemistry stars of this forum is Lou and freechemist (who passed away a time ago, I really miss him). Read their posts and I think you will find some really good advices.

Göran

 

[pu_239]

I made the mistake of thinking a “gold finger” is 1 ram board(finger board + gold finger). I did my calculations based off that. You’re right (as you already know) HCl doesn’t dissolve copper. I don’t know why I said that, I probably meant Nitric acid. I am noticing a lot of sulfate is involved in these reactions. Sulfuric acid can be used to make nitric acid, and sodium metal bisulfate as well. I will look in to better sources for scrap. I think it was you who mentioned a reflux. I was planning on refluxing the HCl and the H2O2(hydrogen peroxide) mixture. In this step, I don’t see the gold coming out of solution, I don’t believe it’s necessary to do it in a reflux. It won’t turn the gold in to a gas allowing for evaporation. The questionable part is refluxing the SMB + AuCl4- solution. I just looked In to it, it’s pointless. The AuCl4- will decompose. It will result in the “opposite” reaction I want. It might be best to use an ice bath. (I need to look at a thermodynamic info on it)
Thanks for your input.

First of all SMB is Sodium Meta Bisulfite, not "sodium metal bisulfate", there's a huge difference between them.
Secondly, you shouldn't boil any solution with values in without some type of reflux. Not because of the reflux is needed but if you boil something the bubbles will create an aerosol that takes the values away as small droplets. The reflux catches the small drops of gold chloride and brings it back to the reaction vessel.
Third, no one has told you to boil your gold chloride + SMB. On the contrary it is better done cold as I explained in the other thread.
And finally, realize that you don't know anything about refining. If something is recommended by people that have done it, ask yourself why first, don't try to be smart and defensive and telling us that we know nothing. A humble view of the art of refining would be good. Anybody can make 99% pure gold with little training but to reach 99.95% and beyond consistently requires experience and all tricks of the trade. You will find all the tricks here at this forum.

Slow down and read the recommended book. If you are as good as you claim it shouldn't take too much time to digest and get up to speed. Honestly, so far you haven't impressed me and I'm a physicist with only physical chemistry during my university time.

The real chemistry stars of this forum is Lou and freechemist (who passed away a time ago, I really miss him). Read their posts and I think you will find some really good advices.

Göran

Okay thanks, I do have ADD(Attention Deficit Disorder) that's the mistake of the Sodium Meta Bisulfate mix up. I do have a reflux apparatus as I mentioned. You're right about the aerosol. Everything does have have a k value(solubility constant). The gold would dissolve a very tiny bit. Evaporation can cause it boil off driving the reaction to take off more gold. I see what you mean. I'll do it in a reflux, and everything else as directed. I know people have been doing this for decades. I am sure many chemist have been involved who are a lot more experienced than I am. As recommended, I'll just sit back and try to learn what I can. I have investigated a bit on a few reactions, there are some things I have (forgetten/not taken in to consideration). To write out the reactions and do them correctly 100%, is a bit math heavy, and as I said, it has been a while since i done these types of calculations. I have just been throwing ideas up in to the air, but when i take a closer look, actually do the calculations, the reactions don't work out how I expected them to. I'll just be patient, and as I said, sit back, learn absorb and so on. I guess the impatiences is messing me up.

Thanks again

 

[solar_plasma]

Seems that you get the right track. Now, try to forget everything you learned, just for a while, forget constants and solubility products and all the theory you believe to know. That will make it much easier to accommodate this new subject, - spoken in terms of the psychology of learning.

In some months your theoretical background might become useful, for you as much as for us.

 

[pu_239]

Seems that you get the right track. Now, try to forget everything you learned, just for a while, forget constants and solubility products and all the theory you believe to know. That will make it much easier to accommodate this new subject, - spoken in terms of the psychology of learning.

In some months your theoretical background might become useful, for you as much as for us.

Yes i understand, the "real world" is different than in the lab. I will just try to learn from more experienced members.

I just wanted to make a general update of my situation. I made a computer program, i know it's not recommended to buy on ebay. There is some profit there, just have to look for it, it's not much profit but it's something(a start). The program i made back calculates, from todays gold price. It calculated 55% of the gold price. So I am paying 55% for the gold of the current gold price. I am also going to sell the gold for 80% of the current market value. It pretty much tells me, how much i should pay(for bidding), if prices are too high for the "buy me now" it also tells me how much I will sell my gold for, and it tells me my profit after everything is over, it even considers shipping.

I also contacted the seller of the ram cards I bought, I pretty much told him, I will pay 95 dollars for the 10lbs of memory cards(I payed 175 + shipping). If he's not interested I'l just send them back. The profit over all is expected to be around 12 dollars(not much) but this doesn't account for the fingerless boards I plan to sell. I play to reinvest half of whatever my profit is on ech batch. So this thing will grow exponentially. I also plan to test yield for sims cards and golden pins, make a computer program for those too. I think everything worked out.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I also contacted the seller of the ram cards I bought, I pretty much told him, I will pay 95 dollars for the 10lbs of memory cards(I payed 175 + shipping). If he's not interested I'l just send them back.

So you won the auction by bidding $175.00, but now you want the seller to accept $95.00 because now you feel you bid too much? How is that the sellers fault? Unless he misrepresented the memory cards, you have no right to change the deal or expect him to take roughly half of what you agreed to pay. Why should the seller have to pay for your over exuberance? He could have sold them for $170.00 to the next highest bidder.

Dave

 

[solar_plasma]

Not the way to treat people. Not the way to find customers who will come back to you.

 

[AndyWilliams]

If you plan on gaining respect on this board, you'll honor your agreement with that seller, rather than strong-arming him into a better deal for yourself. This is a board of integrity. If you cannot honor your deal with him, then all on this board should take that as an indication of how you will deal with them. You have received an education on those cards, consider your loss as payment for that education.

 

[kurtak]

If you plan on gaining respect on this board, you'll honor your agreement with that seller, rather than strong-arming him into a better deal for yourself. This is a board of integrity. If you cannot honor your deal with him, then all on this board should take that as an indication of how you will deal with them. You have received an education on those cards, consider your loss as payment for that education.

Well said Andy :!:

Kurt

 

[butcher]

I agree with Andy, sometimes we make a mistake in business, and we should not charge the customer for our own mistakes, your honor is worth more than money.

Education is not always free or cheap, and education is worth paying for, even when we would rather not (pay for our stupidity), there are times in paying is how we learn our lesson.

If you do not honor a bargain with this deal, how are we to trust you will honor a deal with us?