Hello there

[rajeall]

I've been a long time lurker and just decided finally to start a profile I've been getting into gold refinery but mainly catalytic converter processing using as I end up getting a bunch of these from doing automotive work still very new mainly have used this with a combination of AI and some other research papers but glad to finally be a part of the community
My current process is to use HCL on the ground up substrate let that be heated for a day or so and filter and wash it off if I'm correct in the research I've done the HCL should do nothing to the PGM s but dissolve all the base metals I then have been experimenting with using HCL and H2O2 or bleach or nitric acid as my first couple tests were pretty janky I didn't get much in the way from precipitations of course I didn't realize about having to raise the pH to around 1.5 to 2 I've been using life for that. Crystals diluted in water... As I said I had some failed attempts and then decided to try doing some electroplating which seem to work and got some powders that wouldn't melt but then turning the torch up to high blew them all away... My current solution I feel like this pretty good is precipitate the palladium with formic acid so it's a metal and then use electrolysis to take out the Platinum so I don't have to worry about platinosis and then rhodium I'm not even worried about as it seems very tricky to get out... And I think my current aqua regia recipes don't really dissolve the rhodium too much anyways... That's me and that's where I'm at

 

[nickvc]

Welcome t9 the forum.
I must say straight off I’m not an expert with PGMs and personally would avoid dealing with them if at all possible.
Wet refining puts you at risk , the fumes , salts and solutions are all highly toxic so good extraction proper safety wear and handling are essential, there is no lower limit to get platinosis.
If as you say you are getting these and for free and in reasonable volume I’d suggest to look for a buyer of them as they stand, wet refining will not recover all the values and you are left with a toxic mess to dispose of safely that still contains values, whereas the big players use plasma furnaces to melt the metals out of the substrate and get much better recovery of all the values, this means that they can pay good prices to volume suppliers in fact much better than refining them yourself and selling the metals on.
Most buyers/ middlemen know exactly what each cat is worth so try phoning around and get quotes and buy safer materials to refine or just buy gold or silver coins to put away.
Others may disagree with my thoughts but it seems you are working with toxic materials and potentially losing money to top it off especially if you can’t recover the rhodium.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I've been a long time lurker and just decided finally to start a profile I've been getting into gold refinery but mainly catalytic converter processing using as I end up getting a bunch of these from doing automotive work still very new mainly have used this with a combination of AI and some other research papers but glad to finally be a part of the community
My current process is to use HCL on the ground up substrate let that be heated for a day or so and filter and wash it off if I'm correct in the research I've done the HCL should do nothing to the PGM s but dissolve all the base metals I then have been experimenting with using HCL and H2O2 or bleach or nitric acid as my first couple tests were pretty janky I didn't get much in the way from precipitations of course I didn't realize about having to raise the pH to around 1.5 to 2 I've been using life for that. Crystals diluted in water... As I said I had some failed attempts and then decided to try doing some electroplating which seem to work and got some powders that wouldn't melt but then turning the torch up to high blew them all away... My current solution I feel like this pretty good is precipitate the palladium with formic acid so it's a metal and then use electrolysis to take out the Platinum so I don't have to worry about platinosis and then rhodium I'm not even worried about as it seems very tricky to get out... And I think my current aqua regia recipes don't really dissolve the rhodium too much anyways... That's me and that's where I'm at

Welcome.
There is no base metals in ceramic converters,
although the very fine Pd powders in the converters is somewhat soluble in HCl alone.
How is your lab equipped?
None of the big ones use chemical processing of the converters
as they leave substantial amounts of values behind.
I think formic reduction can be used for all PGMs from their salts.

Platinosis is so "bad" that nothing used in the lab where the slats are produce should leave the lab.
Gloves vessels or even clothes.
All body protection should be used (paint coverall with gloves and a face shield will do).
The part of the lab used for PGMs should be used only for that and protection used all the time when in that part of the lab.

Some clarification:

I didn't get much in the way from precipitations of course I didn't realize about having to raise the pH to around 1.5 to 2 I've been using life for that. Crystals diluted in water...

What do you mean about this?

All PGMs should be processed as concentrated as possible.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Oops. Nick replied while I was writing.

 

[rajeall]

Welcome.
There is no base metals in ceramic converters,
although the very fine Pd powders in the converters is somewhat soluble in HCl alone.
How is your lab equipped?
None of the big ones use chemical processing of the converters
as they leave substantial amounts of values behind.
I think formic reduction can be used for all PGMs from their salts.

Platinosis is so "bad" that nothing used in the lab where the slats are produce should leave the lab.
Gloves vessels or even clothes.
All body protection should be used (paint coverall with gloves and a face shield will do).
The part of the lab used for PGMs should be used only for that and protection used all the time when in that part of the lab.

Some clarification:

What do you mean about this?

All PGMs should be processed as concentrated as possible.

Oh good to know I heard for the optimal pH precipitate palladium selectively would be at around 1.5 to 2 pH can't remember where I read that

 

[rajeall]

Oh good to know I heard for the optimal pH precipitate palladium selectively would be at around 1.5 to 2 pH can't remember where I read that

Welcome.
There is no base metals in ceramic converters,
although the very fine Pd powders in the converters is somewhat soluble in HCl alone.
How is your lab equipped?
None of the big ones use chemical processing of the converters
as they leave substantial amounts of values behind.
I think formic reduction can be used for all PGMs from their salts.

Platinosis is so "bad" that nothing used in the lab where the slats are produce should leave the lab.
Gloves vessels or even clothes.
All body protection should be used (paint coverall with gloves and a face shield will do).
The part of the lab used for PGMs should be used only for that and protection used all the time when in that part of the lab.

Some clarification:

What do you mean about this?

All PGMs should be processed as concentrated as possible.

Also I guess is there a way to selectively precipitate the pallidium if formic acid won't do it I've heard of DMG but I feel like that's a little trickier to obtain

 

[rajeall]

Welcome t9 the forum.
I must say straight off I’m not an expert with PGMs and personally would avoid dealing with them if at all possible.
Wet refining puts you at risk , the fumes , salts and solutions are all highly toxic so good extraction proper safety wear and handling are essential, there is no lower limit to get platinosis.
If as you say you are getting these and for free and in reasonable volume I’d suggest to look for a buyer of them as they stand, wet refining will not recover all the values and you are left with a toxic mess to dispose of safely that still contains values, whereas the big players use plasma furnaces to melt the metals out of the substrate and get much better recovery of all the values, this means that they can pay good prices to volume suppliers in fact much better than refining them yourself and selling the metals on.
Most buyers/ middlemen know exactly what each cat is worth so try phoning around and get quotes and buy safer materials to refine or just buy gold or silver coins to put away.
Others may disagree with my thoughts but it seems you are working with toxic materials and potentially losing money to top it off especially if you can’t recover the rhodium.

Selling them is very tricky as if I am changing a catalytic converter on somebody's car the cat is not registered to me and as I don't have an actual shop and I'm just a mobile mechanic I'm not able to actually sell catalytic converters plus this is mainly also a hobby it's kind of fun to mess around I would like to get the rhodium but for now I need to perfect the first two steps first I can get a couple of these a month one to two sometimes 3 some months I don't get any though so I definitely don't have like volume to resell them like that but if I can perfect this I didn't plan on trying to go buy them from wrecking yards or get them from pick-n-pulls

 

[Yggdrasil]

Oh good to know I heard for the optimal pH precipitate palladium selectively would be at around 1.5 to 2 pH can't remember where I read that

Depending on the method of precipitation.
How do you do it, detail please.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Also I guess is there a way to selectively precipitate the pallidium if formic acid won't do it I've heard of DMG but I feel like that's a little trickier to obtain

DMG is expensive and quite voluminous, but it is still a salt
and needs to be reduced by Formic acid or other methods.

 

[rajeall]

Depending on the method of precipitation.
How do you do it, detail please.

Well I raise the pH using sodium hydroxide in the water solution slowly with it stirring on my stir and then once it gets to about two I was planning to add the formic acid slowly as well at a temperature of about 50° c but I think I mixed up some articles with formic acid works really good but that was assuming that the other pgms were gone so there's a high chance that there's also take the Platinum with it I think.... So I'm wondering if I then take Platinum palladium but then put them in a solution for electroplating if I used a platinum or palladium andoe would I be able to selectively plate them out

 

[rajeall]

DMG is expensive and quite voluminous, but it is still a salt
and needs to be reduced by Formic acid or other methods.

Yeah that's what I'm reading it'll get it out but then I have to reprocess it again and then use formic acid to turn it into a metal plus it's hard to obtain I really just need to get a proper like furnace or induction forge something that can get really really hot besides torches

 

[Yggdrasil]

Well I raise the pH using sodium hydroxide in the water solution slowly with it stirring on my stir and then once it gets to about two I was planning to add the formic acid slowly as well at a temperature of about 50° c but I think I mixed up some articles with formic acid works really good but that was assuming that the other pgms were gone so there's a high chance that there's also take the Platinum with it I think.... So I'm wondering if I then take Platinum palladium but then put them in a solution for electroplating if I used a platinum or palladium andoe would I be able to selectively plate them out

You have still not told us about the Lab conditions you have.

My recommendations will be to cement it with either Zinc, Aluminum or Copper.
If it is dirty we will recommend Copper, but you should have PGMs only so Zn or Al will do the trick and easier.
It is also easier to clean up after.
Then when you have sufficient amount you can sell it as is.

And a tip, it is much easier to leach them whole.

 

[rajeall]

You have still not told us about the Lab conditions you have.

My recommendations will be to cement it with either Zinc, Aluminum or Copper.
If it is dirty we will recommend Copper, but you should have PGMs only so Zn or Al will do the trick and easier.
It is also easier to clean up after.
Then when you have sufficient amount you can sell it as is.

And a tip, it is much easier to leach them whole.

0 I have a pretty clean lab fume Hood all the necessary PPE thanks for not to spill anything and that's why I'm avoiding trying to do anything with salts that's why when I was reading something about formic acid being able to precipitate the pallidiums and stuff straight to to metal I was very interested in trying this and then I was planning to electroplate with solution Platinum out but now it seems like I must maybe adjust...

I heard that crushing them up the ideal way to get maximum recovery but you're saying if I cement it was zinc powder they will still buy it. The place I believe my buddies was going won't buy it unless it's close to 90% and it's the only place in San Diego that does that will buy these metals

 

[rajeall]

You have still not told us about the Lab conditions you have.

My recommendations will be to cement it with either Zinc, Aluminum or Copper.
If it is dirty we will recommend Copper, but you should have PGMs only so Zn or Al will do the trick and easier.
It is also easier to clean up after.
Then when you have sufficient amount you can sell it as is.

And a tip, it is much easier to leach them whole.

Well since I have a bunch of formic acid should I just precipitate then as a whole and just get all the pgms out as much as possible or should I just maybe try electropylating the solution and getting out the metals that way