Help,Evaporation of excess nitric issues

[Bongo-ognob]

I have the same issue with the crystals forming at the bottom and I have evaporated out all the hydrochloric acid and the nitric acid and I will add hydrochloric acid and then evaporate again. before I did that my solution was a dark green to start out with and the Stanis chloride test would show positive but then it would disappear and I know that's because of excess nitric acid however the more I have done this process since ( evaporated the nygic acid down to the salts at the bottom being completely dry )then now the bluish color that was in the salts left over is starting to disappear and Stanis chloride test is no longer testing positive once I add more hydrochloric acid to the solution .the stannous chloride is actually turning the solution clear and I have also added SMB and it is just sitting at the bottom what should I do? I've seen numerous videos and I've never seen anybody completely evaporate everything is it possible to evaporate to the point to where it is no longer AR? I know for a fact that there is gold in there because the status chloride test has already tested positive once although it did disappear because of the excess Nitric. Also another question what are these crystals of salts? And is the gold in them and more importantly how do I get the gold out because hydrochloric acid alone is not working. Anyone who could help I would really appreciate it .thank you

If there is any nitric at all (even if
You evap all the way to dry the nitric acid would in theory bake out as well and you would have nitric acid powder mixed with your salts) it will keep gold on solution. Focus on knowing your starting nitric acid amount and evaporating to approx that level. In my experience it’s better to evaporate not enough then too much

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Unless there are Chlorides in it, there will not be any Silver Chloride. And AR will have very little Silver Chloride in the first place.
And it is just as described, evaporate until it is as syrup.
Adding a few drops of Sulfuric will make it less prone to dry up.
Then you add fresh HCl and the brown fumes will evolve.
Evaporate to syrup again and repeat.
3 times should do it.

Or use Sulfamic acid, much easier.

I’m refining mine tailings with gold/silver. When using sulfamic acid I’m having trouble finding the correct amount to add. Can you add too much? I’ve started to get brown powder after adding SMB but I’m not getting a perfect separation

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Unless there are Chlorides in it, there will not be any Silver Chloride. And AR will have very little Silver Chloride in the first place.
And it is just as described, evaporate until it is as syrup.
Adding a few drops of Sulfuric will make it less prone to dry up.
Then you add fresh HCl and the brown fumes will evolve.
Evaporate to syrup again and repeat.
3 times should do it.

Or use Sulfamic acid, much easier.

And just to be clear I’m doing these
Methods of expelling because I want the knowledge

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Unless there are Chlorides in it, there will not be any Silver Chloride. And AR will have very little Silver Chloride in the first place.
And it is just as described, evaporate until it is as syrup.
Adding a few drops of Sulfuric will make it less prone to dry up.
Then you add fresh HCl and the brown fumes will evolve.
Evaporate to syrup again and repeat.
3 times should do it.

Or use Sulfamic acid, much easier.

What are these solids that are forming? Im having it form on the surface and hoke says not to perform the evaporation for this crust to form…

I’ve thought about pouring off a settled solution to avoid these solids entirely, what would you suggest?

 

[Yggdrasil]

What are these solids that are forming? Im having it form on the surface and hoke says not to perform the evaporation for this crust to form…

Hence the use of a few drops of Sulfuric acid.
The solids may be any salts in solution.
Do you have a proper assay of your ore?
AR are not a recommended method of leaching ores!

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Hence the use if a few drops of Sulfuric acid.
The solids may be any salts in solution.
Do you have a proper assay of your ore?
AR are not a recommended method of leaching ores!

Yes I’ve added sulphuric acid. No I’m not assaying my ore.

why are these solids forming in his solution and mine? I’m seeing a gap in knowledge here

 

[Yggdrasil]

If there is any nitric at all (even if
You evap all the way to dry the nitric acid would in theory bake out as well and you would have nitric acid powder mixed with your salts) it will keep gold on solution. Focus on knowing your starting nitric acid amount and evaporating to approx that level. In my experience it’s better to evaporate not enough then too much

Nitric is comprised of gases only and will not bake out, Nitrates can though.

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Nitric is comprised of gases only and will not bake out, Nitrates can though.

Oh, very good to know.. hmm well as
Of right this very minute I’ve taken a small amount of this evaporating solution into a smaller beaker and am evaporating that down to a syrup. I will mention that after evaporating a sample down past all these solids a thicker consistency does present itself. I suppose no matter what evaporate down if you know gold is in solution and these solids will work itself out. This is good to know as being a beginner these solids are
Alarming and can be disorienting as it’s not described in hokes book

Cheers

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Nitric is comprised of gases only and will not bake out, Nitrates can though.

I’m just going to mention that hoke does say in her book that there will be sediment that needs to settle before precipitating gold. If you have very rich material to begin with it would make sense you’d have a boat load of sediment as you evaporate your AR

In theory you could evaporate (if heating…) till dry and still do a series
Of three of these operations… lol. I mean unneeded and overkill but

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Nitric is comprised of gases only and will not bake out, Nitrates can though.

Then if that’s the case can you use nitrates to dissolve gold? Would
That be similar to an h2o2 hydrogen
Chloride solution to dissolve gold?

I’ve found my answer, thanks for the replies I appreciate you

 

[Yggdrasil]

Then if that’s the case can you use nitrates to dissolve gold? Would
That be similar to an h2o2 hydrogen
Chloride solution to dissolve gold?

I’ve found my answer, thanks for the replies I appreciate you

That is called poor mans AR.
No information on assays?
No comment on using AR on ores?

 

[Golddigger76]

Yes I’ve added sulphuric acid. No I’m not assaying my ore.

why are these solids forming in his solution and mine? I’m seeing a gap in knowledge here

Have you at the very least tested your acids with stannous chloride to see if there's actually any pm's in solution to begin with ?
If not you need to make that your next step otherwise you can waste a lot of time and acids.

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Have you at the very least tested your acids with stannous chloride to see if there's actually any pm's in solution to begin with ?
If not you need to make that your next step otherwise you can waste a lot of time and acids.

No. I can see the gold disappear and go into solution. I can smelt the gold out easily im trying to skip a step and try new techniques.


such a good point man. I must have wasted gallons of acids trying to incrementally step the nitric and muriatic. Although personally I’m not sure if stannous would have made a big difference telling me
Something I already know, but If I could go back in time I would try harder to buy Stannous crystals (I did a half attempt with tin from solder and gave up… however I stumbled across an interesting effect that was from what I could tell the opposite reaction from stannous… I saw color change but it was from clear to black I believe it was black to clear or something along those lines. Not sure on the chemistry but at the time it made some kind of sense) Exactly half a gallon of nitric (still have the solutions stored) and gallons of muriatic that are way unbalanced and aren’t pregnant the way they should be. I knew I was getting close this last week or two as things intuitively were falling into place. I’m timid but reassured in my experiment today as the liquid felt more heavy and balanced properly, is the only way I can describe it. It’s a very rich brown orange color and has an equal uniform coloring throughout. I can only assume this is when the Stoichiometry is proper for the system I am doing. It’s all very fascinating but has been incredibly frustrating and humbling.

That being said I’ve been holding off asking questions or posting threads as I want to post a journal describing my experience start to finish as it’s taken about 3 or 4 years from first starting to look for gold in creeks around Montana

What an invaluable trade skill to have learned… to be able to source precious metals from the earth via chemistry is a fascinating skill

The first photo is a el dorado mine tailing that I concentrated down and is waiting to be roasted, the second is a mine hole from a nearby creek that’s been roasted the third is an AR solution of 500 mls being evaporated to a syrup. In the second photo I’ve altered it so anything that you see shining is large flakes of gold.

 

[Bongo-ognob]

Have you at the very least tested your acids with stannous chloride to see if there's actually any pm's in solution to begin with ?
If not you need to make that your next step otherwise you can waste a lot of time and acids.

That is called poor mans AR.
No information on assays?
No comment on using AR on ores?

Apologies Ygg; in clarification it’s not exactly ore but concentrates. And my comment on an assay is: my eyes assaying the concentrates gives it a thumbs up

 

[Yggdrasil]

Apologies Ygg; in clarification it’s not exactly ore but concentrates. And my comment on an assay is: my eyes assaying the concentrates gives it a thumbs up

So your eyes can see Arsenic, Cadmium and Mercury minerals?

 

[Bongo-ognob]

As another avenue for refining my material I’m really liking using zinc to get black powder then working with that. As these salts are just bonkers on material that has unknowns. And yes I know an assay would be fantastic for help with directing you guys as to what I should do, but I’m not looking for help telling me there’s proportions of metals in my material but searching for the knowledge carrying out these procedures ends up having an exponential firmer grasp on actual trades performed

 

[Bongo-ognob]

So your eyes can see Arsenic, Cadmium and Mercury minerals?

I usually mix my solution in my morning coffee for taste testing, yes (this is a joke future readers)

The boogeyman being displayed on paper by an assay wouldn’t only further verify the boogeyman is there. Ygg I greatly respect any advice or ideas you have and will keep them in mind moving forward; imagine you have ideal material to work with in ideal conditions and letting me know as to the path you would take is invaluable

 

[Yggdrasil]

I usually mix my solution in my morning coffee for taste testing, yes

The boogeyman being displayed on paper by an assay wouldn’t only further verify the boogeyman is there. Ygg I greatly respect any advice or ideas you have and will keep them in mind moving forward; imagine you have ideal material to work with in ideal conditions and letting me know as to the path you would take is invaluable

We are worried about the safety of our members and the ones around.
You are generating some significant amount of waste don't you?
How are you treating it?

 

[Yggdrasil]

As another avenue for refining my material I’m really liking using zinc to get black powder then working with that. As these salts are just bonkers on material that has unknowns. And yes I know an assay would be fantastic for help with directing you guys as to what I should do, but I’m not looking for help telling me there’s proportions of metals in my material but searching for the knowledge carrying out these procedures ends up having an exponential firmer grasp on actual trades performed

Zinc will drop almost every metal in solution.
So you will at least ned a second round to get Gold and PMs separated fom the "junk".

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I usually mix my solution in my morning coffee for taste testing, yes

You may think our concerns about safety are a big joke, but we don't. Everything we do is dangerous. We have lost members who didn't take the risks seriously. Perhaps you should read through Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?

Dave